Why So Many Christians Are Relaxing over Drinks - As colleges drop drinking bans, some see alcohol as a moral good.

In my personal study of this subject the Bible does not say to a Believer “Thou shalt not drink an alcoholic beverage,” but it comes very, Very close. Between what the Bible says directly about this issue and taking the Bible as a whole I honestly do not see how a Believer who truly studies this subject with an open mind seeking to really understand what the Bible says can come to the conclusion that drinking is OK. I do not see it.

I am not applying this statement to everyone across the board, but in talking about this subject with other people and again from my own study I (& others I have talked to) feel that too many people are lazy about this topic. Too many people are selfish and looking for an easy reason to simply just do what they want to do. There is A lot of bad information information out there about this.

One example: You can’t come to the conclusion that since Jesus turned water into “wine” therefore the alcoholic version of wine is OK. Why? Sometimes when the Bible refers to “wine” it is referring to an alcoholic beverage, but often it is not. This is just one, easy example. Yet you see this brought up all the time by people who then say drinking is OK.

Having said this, this does not mean that I would not associate with another believer who believes it is OK to drink. I would disagree with them, but this is not a point of separation for me.

Jim,
The first thing beverage alcohol does is alter the mind. It adversely affects a person’s judgment. As one college football player admitted, alcohol makes him do stupid things he would never do in his right mind.

There are numerous scientific studies that have demonstrated this. Most drinkers will affirm this. Defensive driving instructors teach this.

Biblical principles certainly speak against using drugs for pleasure, for recreation. And most drinkers will admit they drink, not for the taste, but for the drug effect. After all, you can make a nonalcoholic drink taste like an alcoholic drink - yet most drinkers reject them; they like the buzz that comes with alcohol.
David R. Brumbelow

[dgszweda]

[Lee]

[Jim]

The church is maturing and realizing that wine-drinking is a tertiary issue - not central to the gospel!

It’s out there in the “opinion” ring

Nonsense. Scripture makes it abundantly clear that intoxicating beverage (wine and other forms of alcohol) is in a category of its own. Drinking alcoholic beverage for any reason—good, bad, or indifferent—is NEVER the same as drinking non-intoxicating beverages.

Even water must be drunk in moderation, lest you become intoxicated.

Everything is moderation, just some items require a lower threshhold for that moderation. You can get drunk on water and also die over too much water.

Non seqitur. Water is not alcoholic and has no biblical status other than existence. Wine, strong drink, etc., does have a specific biblical status, and, as far as I am aware, is the only beverage/food with such status. It is NEVER the same as water, tea, coffee, Pepsi, Koolaid (and if there is anything that should be banned it is Koolaid), peanut butter, or whatever.

[Jim]

Questions?

• How is the mind altered?
• Is there any science behind this? (Can you provide support?)
• I mean … the person who may have a glass of wine with dinner or a beer with pizza … are you saying his mind is altered?

Jim,

The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism has this to say:

Drinking too much – on a single occasion or over time – can take a serious toll on your health. Here’s how alcohol can affect your body:

Brain:
Alcohol interferes with the brain’s communication pathways, and can affect the way the brain looks and works. These disruptions can change mood and behavior, and make it harder to think clearly and move with coordination.

and there’s this publication as well (page 7):

DEFINING THE BRAIN CHANGES
Using brain imaging and psychological tests, researchers have identified the regions of the brain most vulnerable to alcohol’s effects.These include:

• CEREBELLUM – This area controls motor coordination. Damage to the cerebellum results in a loss of balance and stumbling, and also may affect cognitive functions such as memory and emotional response.
• LIMBIC SYSTEM – This complex brain system monitors a variety of tasks including memory and emotion. Damage to this area impairs each of these functions.
• CEREBRAL CORTEX – Our abilities to think, plan, behave intelligently, and interact socially stem from this brain region. In addition, this area connects the brain to the rest of the nervous system. Changes and damage to this area impair the ability to solve problems, remember, and learn.

ALCOHOL SHRINKS AND DISTURBS BRAIN TISSUE
Heavy alcohol consumption—even on a single occasion—can throw the delicate balance of neurotransmitters off course. Alcohol can cause your neurotransmitters to relay information too slowly, so you feel extremely drowsy. Alcohol related disruptions to the neurotransmitter balance also can trigger mood and behavioral changes, including depression, agitation, memory loss, and even seizures.

Long-term, heavy drinking causes alterations in the neurons, such as reductions in the size of brain cells. As a result of these and other changes, brain mass shrinks and the brain’s inner cavity grows bigger. These changes may affect a wide range of abilities, including motor coordination; temperature regulation; sleep; mood; and various cognitive functions, including learning and memory.

Granted, long-term, heavy drinking is different from what you suggest (a glass of wine with dinner high in proteins and carbs), but David’s point is solid.

Also, I wanted to note that ‘alcohol’ as used in the NT/OT is not the same alcohol used commercially today. Today’s alcohols are chemically altered to be much stronger than was ever possible in those days due to advances in brewing technology.

[Jay]

Also, I wanted to note that ‘alcohol’ as used in the NT/OT is not the same alcohol used commercially today. Today’s alcohols are chemically altered to be much stronger than was ever possible in those days due to advances in brewing technology.

“Chemically altered”? that may be true in cheap(er) wines — or even some (very) cheap spirits.

There are natural ways of increasing the natural alcohol content and amplifying certain tastes. You certainly don’t need to “chemically alter” anything.

And, yes, certain beers/ales are stronger than others, but there are plenty of beers/ales in the 3% to 4% range (same as in the old days). Even “near beer”, which has less than 0.5%.

Not all of us go for the strongest IPA — it’s all in the taste.

Is wine primarily “bad” because of what it is or because of what it does?

1) Wine could be “bad” because of the alcoholic content. The presence of alcohol transforms the innocuous grape or grain into an inherent evil. Obviously, it is difficult to consistently hold this position because many medicines contain alcohol. In a nuanced way, we could claim that excessive levels of alcoholic content are bad. The main issue then becomes how are we to determine the content that leads to unrighteousness. Wine in biblical times was probably between 4% and 10% alcoholic. That is well within the alcoholic content range of beer today. The teetotalers are not in favor of this method of classification because beer would be acceptable (although some wines and all hard liquors would be excluded).

2) Thus, we are lead to the conclusion that alcohol is “bad” because of what it does. The natural rebuttal is to question whether alcohol ALWAYS leads to certain results. I have been known to partake of liquid refreshment at times…as of yet, I have not gotten mind-numbingly intoxicated, beaten my non-existent children, or driven my car into a guardrail. Basically, there is no necessary correlation between alcohol and undesirable actions — meaning, these actions are not always caused by alcohol or caused always by alcohol. The fact is that controlled consumption in moderation does not force evil results.

I am not convinced by Scripture or by argumentation that alcohol is inherently evil.

By the way, it is completely ridiculous (and logically circuitous) to claim that wine is always alcoholic when mentioned unfavorably and always non-alcoholic when mentioned favorably. The only basis for making that contextual distinction is form the a priori assumption that alcohol is bad. It is intellectually untenable to affirm your position with a statement that is derived from you position.

Normally I try to stay out of these discussions as I’ve had my share of argumentation before, but I just wanted to dip my toe in here a bit. I am off to a practice but can reply when I get back.

1) I’m interested to see where there is a clear cut example in Scripture where the normal word for wine (Greek = oinos, Hebrew = yayyin) is unambiguously non-alcoholic drink. Usually people read Scripture like this - where the Bible praises wine, then it is talking about grape juice, when the Bible warns about wine, it is talking about alcoholic wine. That kind of exegesis is totally subjective. Strong lexical arguments have been put forth that define the word consistently as alcoholic. And one finds this in most lexicons on the subject and in Bible dictionary entries on it. The scholarship is almost unanimous on this point.

2) There are plenty of reasons biblically why one would be open to a moderate enjoyment of wine since God presents it as a gift, and signals out the very joy-producing qualities of the drink as part of God’s good intent. I have to run, so I can only point to this post on my blog and to Judges 9:13, Ps. 104:14-15 and numerous other passages.

- I scanned the comments.

- I actually read Jim’s comments and agreed with most of them.

- We should all do more bullet points and fewer paragraphs.

- Really we should.

- Maybe concision = clear thought.

We had a debate at Sharper Iron not too long back on my thesis about wine and joy. Aaron posted “The True Gladness of Wine” at Sharper Iron and then I responded at my blog with “Revisiting Wine and Gladness.” I share that for those looking to explore the topic again.

I appreciate Jim’s posts showing that one’s view of alcohol is not a fundamental of the faith and the other comments about non-American cultures and also a historical perspective help bolster that. With Thanksgiving around the corner, I can point out how in all the many retellings I heard of the Mayflower’s voyage in my fundamentalist Christian school and college growing up, I never once was told the following intriguing facts:

1) The Pilgrims carried ale or hard cider with them on the boat - that was how they were able to stay hydrated on the long voyage as fresh water would go bad. [In fact William Bradford notes how upset the Pilgrims were that once the ship made it to Cape Cod the captain refused to share the beer with them anymore.]

2) One of the first buildings they built was a brewery - (source for both points above)

Historically, it wasn’t until the fermentation process was invented and then applied to grape juice in the mid to late 1800s that non-alcoholic wine was used in communion for churches. And there was a slow adoption of that.

Anyway the original post was an interesting read and I think it is a good sign, a healthy step away from legalistic tendencies and a trust to allow people to choose their own convictions on the topic in a Rom. 14/15 way.

Historically, it wasn’t until the fermentation process was invented and then applied to grape juice in the mid to late 1800s that non-alcoholic wine was used in communion for churches. And there was a slow adoption of that.

I’m positive you mean pasteurization process.

Moderate drinking is not forbidden in the Bible. Point taken. But it concerns me to see so many people getting the cart out of the right-hand ditch and careening it into the left-hand one. Those who are quick to argue for the premise that the Bible does not forbid alcohol, in my mind, do not take seriously enough the difficulties that can result, for which the Bible also included the admonition that wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging.

I’ve seen formerly teetotaler Christians drink openly at gatherings with unsaved people present. They didn’t used to do so, but now they’ve determined that they have the liberty, so they are. What does that say to the unsaved people - some possibly alcoholics - who are there? And what will these Christians say if one of their children faces alcoholism down the road—that started when the children saw their parents freely exercising this liberty?

Someone I know very well, who grew up in a church where drinking alcohol in moderation was not forbidden, observed to me recently that the generation of young Christians behind her is taking drinking up again. Her words were “Our generation saw what drinking did to our parents, so we didn’t drink. Now our children are exercising the liberty again. And I see what is happening again.”

But the vine said to them, Should I cease my new wine, which cheers both God and men. -Judges 9:13

Judges 9:13 is often brought up with the contention that it shows God is pleased with alcohol, that alcohol is intended by God to cheer both God and man.

A closer look reveals a number of problems with this view.

1. In the Bible, as much as some wish and assume, wine is not synonymous with alcohol. Sometimes wine refers to an alcoholic drink, sometimes it does not. In Bible times they had no word for “alcohol,” so they described it by its effects. For example, Proverbs 23:29-35 (significantly, after describing this kind of alcoholic wine, it then says not to even look at it!).
Judges 9:13 is talking about wine, it is not necessarily talking about alcohol.

2. The word for wine used in this verse is the Hebrew word tirosh. Tirosh usually means new wine, just pressed wine, unfermented wine, nonalcoholic wine, or grape juice.
Some even contend tirosh always meant unfermented wine. Two Jewish Encyclopedias take this position.

For example, The Jewish Encyclopedia states, “ ‘Tirosh’ includes all kinds of sweet juices and must, and does not include fermented wine (Tosef., Ned. iv. 3).”

By the way, this also shows the ancient Jews knew much more than they are often given credit about making and preserving all kinds of nonalcoholic drinks.

3. Notice in this verse the vine says, “My wine.” What kind of wine does a vine possess? Wine in the grapes, the pure blood of the grape, unfermented wine, nonalcoholic wine, or grape juice.
This is reminiscent of Isaiah 65:8, another clear biblical reference to nonalcoholic wine.

4. “which cheers both God and men.” Some have actually claimed this has to be alcohol, since it “cheers” both God and man. Some have actually claimed this shows even God enjoys getting a little tipsy.

Several problems with this view.
1. God condemns drunkenness and it is unlikely He is saying it’s alright to get a little drunk. As Jerry Vines has said, “Moderate drinking is moderate drunkenness.” God would not violate His own commandments.

2. Isn’t it possible to have a drug-free cheerfulness? My heart has often been glad, without drugs being involved.

3. The harvest, and the huge amount of work that went into saving the harvest, when completed gave great cause to be cheerful, to rejoice.

4. They craved sweet things, and a good glass of sweet wine would bring joy. They had no cane sugar; their only sources of sweetness were from fruit and honey. I’ve had Pinot Noir unfermented wine; it cheers my heart every time.

5. It is sacrilegious to present God as getting even a little drunk.

6. If God ever did get a little drunk, can you imagine the trouble we would be in?

Rather than commending alcohol, Judges 9:13 does just the opposite. It shows a great example of one of the many verses that speak of nonalcoholic wine.
David R. Brumbelow

Why stop with undiluted, alcoholic wine and beer for recreational use? Why not promote whiskey, vodka, gin, and other hard liquors? While we are at it, add a few smokes or even marijuana, cocaine, heroin, angel dust, or the drug of the month club. All in moderation of course! After all, none of these things are a fundamental of the faith. Yes, some of these things are currently illegal, but in time we can change that as well. In fact, I can think of a whole lot of things to add to the list that are not a fundamental of the faith. Maybe we can all meet at the local Casino and gamble, play poker, drink, and smoke together. It would be a great place for a Christian college faculty reunion or deacon board meeting. All this and heaven too!

[Ann B.]

Moderate drinking is not forbidden in the Bible. Point taken. But it concerns me to see so many people getting the cart out of the right-hand ditch and careening it into the left-hand one. Those who are quick to argue for the premise that the Bible does not forbid alcohol, in my mind, do not take seriously enough the difficulties that can result, for which the Bible also included the admonition that wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging.

I’ve seen formerly teetotaler Christians drink openly at gatherings with unsaved people present. They didn’t used to do so, but now they’ve determined that they have the liberty, so they are. What does that say to the unsaved people - some possibly alcoholics - who are there? And what will these Christians say if one of their children faces alcoholism down the road—that started when the children saw their parents freely exercising this liberty?

Someone I know very well, who grew up in a church where drinking alcohol in moderation was not forbidden, observed to me recently that the generation of young Christians behind her is taking drinking up again. Her words were “Our generation saw what drinking did to our parents, so we didn’t drink. Now our children are exercising the liberty again. And I see what is happening again.”

Ann, I think your caution for moderation is spot on…let’s keep it on the road….

But your secondary point about testimony to unsaved is, I think, ungrounded. I work with dozens of unsaved people who quite clearly know my religious beliefs. None of them have ever questioned my beliefs because of a beer after work. In fact, they are shocked that I went through college without drinking and that it was forbidden at my college (and by my family) to drink.

We should not use the worldlings as a barometer for morality. Alcohol in moderation is not right because the world thinks it is. But, most worldings do not see an incongruity between moderate alcohol usage and Christianity. If a Christian avoids alcohol because of what they think the world will think of them, then they should understand that the world doesn’t care.

It comes back to the fact that the world does not view alcohol as inherently evil….they view the negatives outcomes as evil. This is, I believe the fundamental paradigm disconnect on the issue of alcohol. Alcohol is not inherently evil…the world understands it…I’m glad that many Christians understand this.

Good job Mike, love it I believe we are seeing the diluting of so-called mainstream Christian thinking today. But then again, what do we know, we are baby boomers after all.

The truth is, we have and are witnessing a change in thinking by the modern day Christian and we are considered antiquated and out of step.

That only bothers me because I fear where it will lead. I do not take it personally. I am just grateful my Heavenly Father convicted me of that as a young boy. I had enough of leaving the house

to flee from my drunk step-dad coming after us with his shot gun or just plain being mean when he was drunk.

He did not get drunk on grape juice. I get ticked off at all the campaigning against tobacco while alcohol is encouraged even to our children which many end up indulging in and some kill and or are

killed.

The truth is, we will always have a tendency to justify what we want. This debate will continue and continue and continue and continue and continue and continue etc.

I am sure Rod Bell never meant for it to get out of hand. We all THINK we can control it. We must take heed lest we fall. Much more could be said.

Bert Baker Ex. 15:2