Josh Duggar resigns from Family Research Council after sexual abuse allegations
“Josh Duggar, of TLC’s ‘19 Kids and Counting,’ resigned his position at the Family Research Council Thursday after reports surfaced that he allegedly sexually assaulted four female siblings in the large family, plus an additional female victim.” Josh Duggar resigns
Related: What You Need to Know about the Josh Duggar Police Report
- 34 views
[Jim]So, let’s make a list of forgiven sins now that were done before salvation that disqualify one from the ministry and another list of forgiven sins that are permissible. After you include the Apostle Paul in the ministry, you just about have settled the matter.
James K wrote:
You literally didn’t answer. Is Josh banned from ever being a pastor? If not, wouldn’t some secular job for the FRC be irrelevant?
The issue is not whether he is qualified to be a pastor or not (but he is not!). The secular job. Story: I know a woman who committed check fraud and was convicted of a felony. This happened before she was saved. I know her well (she worships with me) and is a genuine Christian and a lovely woman. No bank would hire her! No way … no felons make it into banking in the US. They may become felons and get fired but no convicted felons get hired in banking.
It’s relevant because the FRC has a position. And (as I cited above), he and they think it best that he not represent them.
Some sins have long shadows of consequences!
I have a grand niece who has a half-sister who steals candy bars. The niece is 10 and the half sister is 8 or 9. I wrote to my grand niece this week and spoke to this situation. I told her that when I was a kid I sometime stole candy bars from the store. That it was sin … that Christ has forgiven me.
That sin does not have a long shadow of consequence. Sin? Yes! Disqualifying sin? Well some might dispute this but I was considered qualified to pastor three different churches.
As Bob Gray and Jack Schaap demonstrate, virtually nothing today disqualifies one from being a missionary or a pastor.
[Jim]Are you looking out for the children or for your own reputation and that of the church? Just wondering.Mark_Smith wrote:
You are the pastor of a church. A 12 year old girl says a 13 year old boy touched her breasts in Sunday School in an intimate way. Do you call the police?
The media in this story says unequivocally yes. What do you think? Is there latitude here?
If you would call, we need to be teaching our boys early to not touch girls (and why), so that your little Jimmy doesn’t wind up in the Youth Detention Center with a criminal record as a sex offender at 13!
I would
[jimcarwest]GregH wrote:
It would seem to me that this situation is very damaging not just because of what Josh did but what happened afterward and how it was handled. Yes Josh can be forgiven but I am not sure that is the point. Here are some of my questions:
1) Did the Duggars warn their good friends they spent time with of the problem Josh had? (Maybe they did and maybe not; I don’t know. I am skeptical that they did because if they had, I think this would have been public sooner.)
2) Why did they not report it to the police until forced to four years later? Why was it Oprah who had to start the ball rolling?
3) Why did Jim Duggar apparently stonewall the police in producing Josh?
4) Why did they choose the “counseling” option that they did?
5) Why have they presented themselves as a model family with this just waiting to be uncovered from the past as if they were blissfully ignorant of the incredible damage this would do to the reputation of Christianity? (Perhaps the biggest surprise from this is that it took this long to come out.)
6) Why did Josh take the job he did (without telling his employer about this)? How could he possibly think his pontificating on the dangers of homosexuality in such a public way would not come back to make him look like a fool and biggest hypocrite of 2015 when this came out? That was breathtakingly ignorant and frankly, incredibly selfish.
So yes, by all means, Josh should get a second chance and should be forgiven. But that is just a piece of this. In retrospect, the Duggars should never have done the show with this in their closet unless they could have found a way to come clean about it (without jeopardizing the identities of victims).
Maybe one should walk a mile in Jim Duggar’s sandals before indicating with six points just how you would have handled the matter. There may be good answers to your questions that would put the whole matter in a different light. The question is: Did the police conclude that a crime had been committed or that something should have been done that was not? Maybe we ought to leave it there. Since there is no guideline in Scripture for handling such a situation, maybe there is room for differing opinions as to how the church should respond unless a crime had been committed, and that is for the police to decide, isn’t it?
Ummm, Jim, I am just asking questions. I question your seemingly blind loyalty to the Duggars. It seems ill-advised if it is to the point where I can’t even ask questions. And for heaven’s sake, did you read about this? The police did not have a chance to investigate this case because of the statute of limitations. It appears that what Jim Duggar did was have an off the record conversation with a friend who was a state trooper a year after he became aware of it. It appears like a good-old-boys thing because the state trooper did not follow through officially. Why? I don’t know. But the fact he is now in jail for child porn might be a clue.
So no, I am not just going to “leave it there.”
[Joeb]Joeb: You misrepresent the ABWE case. It was a adult — a doctor — who molested the missionary children, and repeatedly; then was recalled secretly, allowed to continue in practice int he US. as a pediatrician. Strong discipline, yes; but incarceration for 7 years for childhood curiosity? Do we have enough prisons to care for everyone in this category of “crime”? Do the parents have any latitude for handling the situation among themselves?Mark you make a dump statement here and people typically expect from a fundy. Play down the offenses likes its no big deal. Just a young kid getting into mischief. By the way the mission agency is protecting this guy from prosecution. Sounds familiar of Baptist mission agencies ie Wendell Kempton. First of all Jim Bob and the elders did not report it timely and then interfered until the statute limitations expired. If the Police were allowed to do their job old JOSH might have been charged as an adult and labeled as a sexual predator and rightly so. At least he would have been incarcerated until he was 21. So come on Mark get real. I think Jim has already pointed this out to you. Out of this whole thread Bert makes the best point of all. We need to examine our own hearts and mines and so do our churches. If living by rules is your answer to holiness you have failed your Lord. You should follow the rules because you love your Lord and want to please him in all that you do and Im speaking as a sinner who struggling in his relationship with the Lord. You can’t change people with rules and we can’t legislate rules to non christians. The only thing that will change people is if they become saved and have a true relationship with their Lord not rules.
I couldn’t care less about the “church’s” reputation. I am concerned that a curious touch, or maybe even adolescent mayhem, is turned into a crime.
Realize if the police get involved, that boy is going to be gone for a while. He is going to be in foster care or maybe in juvenile detention with some serious teenage criinals. He will be questioned by social workers who couldn’t care less about your Christianity. He will be frightened and think you betrayed him, etc…
What I am saying is you’d better be sure that this boy really knew what he was doing before you unleash the powers of the criminal justice system, and the godless psychological system on him.
I am surprised at the people who are saying that they would have turned young Josh over to the police immediately if they were his dad. That is rough to call out Child Protective Services on your son. I’d do it if I had to, but I would need to be sure that the situation warranted it, because you unleash the entire secular system on your family in that case.
Your 14 year old son tells you he touched his sister’s vagina last night. He realizes it was a mistake and repents. So, you grab, him and call the police…
Really?
Do you know what is going to happen to him?
[Julie Anne]“Me thinks that you protest too loudly!” If having contact with Bill Gothard at any time or being a follower is somehow now an incurable offense, you would have to apply this judgment to hundreds of thousands of strong Bible-believing Christians who once filled giant stadiums to hear him and purchase his books. I personally know many people who have used Gothard’s homeschooling curricula who certainly don’t give him a pass on his moral problems of later years. I agree that a crime should be reported to the police, but probably few parents consider the curiosity that goes on among siblings about sexual matters a crime that should warrant years in prison for their children.Then we need to completely change the way that we teach boys. Because a curiosity could reap horrible consequences.
Mark, your comments are so disturbing. To indicate that you aren’t teaching boys this already is problematic. Duggar’s behavior was criminal in nature. If you heard this story as a pastor and were a mandatory reporter, you could be in a heap of trouble legally if you failed to report. Even if you by law were not a mandatory reporter, there have been cases where adults were sued for not reporting. This is not for YOU to decide. This is for experts to decide if a law was broken. That is why you report it when you hear about it. You don’t wait a year, you report now.
Many (not just at SI but out “there”), are acting like every instance of a boy unwantedly touching a girl’s private parts should lead to arrest, marking as a molester, isolation in a youth detention center, and significant psychological counseling. If you haven’t read what is being posted on many news sites about this, it is scary and over the top. I’m not sure about that. There is molestation, no doubt about it. There is also confusion and attention-seeking.
I’m appalled that you spend so much time defending a perpetrator. Have you once even thought about these young girls who had to live for years under the same roof with their abuser and wonder if they would again be awakened in the middle of the night by their older brother’s sexual violence towards them?
It seems his sisters have forgiven him.
I would question this. This is based on the words of the parents who followed Gothard’s teachings of quickly forgiving and moving along. It takes years and sometimes decades to come to grips of the sexual violation done to your body. Sometimes the real work of forgiveness comes as a young lady marries and has her own children. Read the article I posted earlier.
[Mark_Smith]Your 14 year old son tells you he touched his sister’s vagina last night. He realizes it was a mistake and repents. So, you grab, him and call the police…
Really?
Do you know what is going to happen to him?
Mark, no I likely would not but that hypothetical is light years away (a nod to your physics background) from what happened here isn’t it? We are talking about multiple victims and repetitive action.
You know squat about what happened here. You have a news story. That’s it.
[Mark_Smith]You know squat about what happened here. You have a news story. That’s it.
Wrong. There is a police report. Read it.
in 2nd article of filing
[Mark_Smith]You know squat about what happened here. You have a news story. That’s it.
Mark,
There is a full 33 page police report that has the facts stated. Why are they facts? Because the police report has quotes from the Duggars as well as the minors that corroborates the incidents. This took place at least over an entire year. Jim Bob first caught him in March of 2002. Did not turn him in, and caught him again in March of 2003. In addition, numerous siblings told Jim Bob it was happening. It happened to all but one of his sisters at the time (not the oldest), which means at least one child under the age of 5 was fondled. In addition it took place with another child not in the family. Where you think this is an isolated incident is beyond me. In addition, I am not sure why a single person here doesn’t catch the under the age of 5 incident. There is one thing when it is a single curiosity, another thing when it went on and on, and with infants. It almost makes me want to throw up. I was thirteen when my little sister was 1 years old. My hormones were blazing like every other kid. Not once did this ever cross my mind, it would have been disgusting. What is even more surprising is that everyone is calling the Duggars great parents. What kind of great parents are they that they allow a situation like this to continue and victimize other kids. Were they more interested in protecting Josh, or the other children who continued to be victimized with no apparent accountability of Josh. That is what bothers me the most. I am not going to crucify them, this is something that they have to live with. I just can’t believe the defense that 1) they did the right thing and 2) the focus that he was just a teenager.
OK I missed the actual police report
been released to the media?
Discussion