Josh Duggar resigns from Family Research Council after sexual abuse allegations

What crimes require mandatory reporting in your world? Teen alcohol use? Teen drug use? Teen speeding? They are all illegal. Which ones MUST be reported by family members.

What if you found out your teenage son drank 2 cans of beer before driving his sister (12 years old) to ballet practice. His poor decision put her at risk. SHOULD YOU BE REQUIRED to report him to the police?

Or better yet, your 17 year old son has consensual sex with a 15 year old girl (say they both go to the same high school). She doesn’t complain. You instead find out when he tells you. This is illegal in most states for a minor under 16. Do you call the police and have him arrested and insist that he be labeled a molester of girls?

Joe, the possible “out” for the Duggars is the possibility that the 2006/2007 investigation found that Josh’s behavior had not recurred, and that therefore the discipline provided by the parents was indeed effective at ending the behavior. So if that is what the other reports with the juvenile victims found—and those are of course sealed—any good defense lawyer is going to argue that the parents did take affirmative action to remove the danger from their children.

The major thing that argues against this is the apparent lawsuit to stop the investigation. But that said, people can have valid reasons to not want to be investigated besides guilt—the HSLDA litigates a ton of situations where social services and police investigators use anonymous allegations to try and obtain entry to a home. It’s not that people are necessarily guilty, but rather that investigators who have their minds made up can and will drag families through hell on rather tenuous allegations.

Speaking of which, Joe, it does seem to me that you are coming to this forum with your mind made up, which is not exactly what I would hope to see in someone who claims to have been an investigator in his work life.

Also watched the bit about the liberal media schadenfreude

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/06/01/closer-look-liberal-backlash-agai…

Satan has been busy getting people (even Christians) to jump to conclusions and then post their worse assumptions online.

Jumping to conclusions is the only exercise some people get. They ignore, however, the clear teaching of Prov. 18:13, which says:

“He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.” KJV

“Spouting off before listening to the facts is both shameful and foolish.” (NLT)

A few participants in this thread on the Duggars are all too eager to chime in with the efforts to crucify the family and do damage to the children they pretend to be defending. Based upon “reports” in the liberal, anti-Christian media and their own experiences, they have slandered a family that has attempted to do the best for their son, their daughters, and their entire family. In my opinion, such zeal is not needed in this discussion. Most participants to this discussion on SI have no intention of giving evil a pass, and we certainly do not wish to accuse each other of being soft on child molestation. Having heard the Duggars, being carefully interviewed by Megan Kelly, we are glad we didn’t “jump to conclusions” as some others have done. Now let’s join with the Duggars in supporting the fight against the unlawful release of sealed records of minors. Let’s see if there is as much support to protect minors for this effort as there is for damaging the Duggar family.

[jimcarwest]

Jumping to conclusions is the only exercise some people get. They ignore, however, the clear teaching of Prov. 18:13, which says:

“He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.” KJV

“Spouting off before listening to the facts is both shameful and foolish.” (NLT)

A few participants in this thread on the Duggars are all too eager to chime in with the efforts to crucify the family and do damage to the children they pretend to be defending. Based upon “reports” in the liberal, anti-Christian media and their own experiences, they have slandered a family that has attempted to do the best for their son, their daughters, and their entire family. In my opinion, such zeal is not needed in this discussion. Most participants to this discussion on SI have no intention of giving evil a pass, and we certainly do not wish to accuse each other of being soft on child molestation. Having heard the Duggars, being carefully interviewed by Megan Kelly, we are glad we didn’t “jump to conclusions” as some others have done. Now let’s join with the Duggars in supporting the fight against the unlawful release of sealed records of minors. Let’s see if there is as much support to protect minors for this effort as there is for damaging the Duggar family.

Do you realize that if the Duggars had reported it right away and the right way in the first place, which would have led Josh to served time for the crime in a juvenile home for 6 months or so, there would have been absolutely no way these records could have been made public? In some ways, they are reaping the consequences of the sin that they sowed. Now that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have compassion on them. However, I am just waiting for Jim Bob to come out and state that he messed up with the action or lack of action that he took to deal with his son’s sin and crime (which comes across as a coverup to alot of people) He still isn’t owning up to that particular sin. When he does, I’m sure the church-at-large will extend even more grace and forgiveness to them.

[Joeb]

Jim wow I saw the same interview and they did nothing but down play what Josh did. You right off the bat condem ungodly media and authorities. Jim Bob boldly says he was not required to report it which I disagree. If you are home schooling you are a teacher so I would say the law applies. Once Jim Bob is out of the statues of limitations he can say anything he wants. What was more disturbing to me he said he consulted with other fAmlies about the matter and these fAmlies had worse situations. So were those worse situations reported and if Jim Bob found out about them while consulting with other Christian families why didn’t he report them too. You said no conspiracies him tAlking to other fAmlies who had worse situAtions about how not to get the police involved is a conspiracy and a criminAl act. If these families are in his church or home school network he is a mandatory reporter. So now he has indicated that other christian fAmlies subverted Justice just as he did. No matter what anyone says Jim your going to support them so no sense of arguing.

[Joel Shaffer]

​Do you realize that if the Duggars had reported it right away and the right way in the first place, which would have led Josh to served time for the crime in a juvenile home for 6 months or so, there would have been absolutely no way these records could have been made public? In some ways, they are reaping the consequences of the sin that they sowed.

Excuse me?

What sin did Jim Bob sow?

Joel, why are you so supportive of the state’s juvenile justice system like it is an infallible solution?

You say that if they had sent Josh to juvenile “jail” there is no way it would have been released to the media. How do you know that? It is ILLEGAL for the police report to be released. Do you deny that?

[Joel Shaffer]

jimcarwest wrote:

Jumping to conclusions is the only exercise some people get. They ignore, however, the clear teaching of Prov. 18:13, which says:

“He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.” KJV

“Spouting off before listening to the facts is both shameful and foolish.” (NLT)

A few participants in this thread on the Duggars are all too eager to chime in with the efforts to crucify the family and do damage to the children they pretend to be defending. Based upon “reports” in the liberal, anti-Christian media and their own experiences, they have slandered a family that has attempted to do the best for their son, their daughters, and their entire family. In my opinion, such zeal is not needed in this discussion. Most participants to this discussion on SI have no intention of giving evil a pass, and we certainly do not wish to accuse each other of being soft on child molestation. Having heard the Duggars, being carefully interviewed by Megan Kelly, we are glad we didn’t “jump to conclusions” as some others have done. Now let’s join with the Duggars in supporting the fight against the unlawful release of sealed records of minors. Let’s see if there is as much support to protect minors for this effort as there is for damaging the Duggar family.

Do you realize that if the Duggars had reported it right away and the right way in the first place, which would have led Josh to served time for the crime in a juvenile home for 6 months or so, there would have been absolutely no way these records could have been made public? In some ways, they are reaping the consequences of the sin that they sowed. Now that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have compassion on them. However, I am just waiting for Jim Bob to come out and state that he messed up with the action or lack of action that he took to deal with his son’s sin and crime (which comes across as a coverup to alot of people) He still isn’t owning up to that particular sin. When he does, I’m sure the church-at-large will extend even more grace and forgiveness to them.

Put yourself in their place. You have no prior experience with a situation like this. Your own dear son has come to you crying and showing remorse over what he has done. His sisters don’t even know it happened and don’t show any trauma whatsoever. They have to learn about it from their parents. As a parent, you only know what the son has confessed. So now you tell me that you are going to panic, assume a sexual assault has taken place, call 911, get the social services involved, turn your son over to the police. Give me a break, Joel. Unless you are very different that the person you have always presented yourself as, I think you are acting on hindsight and not on conviction. So just what is the “sin they have sowed”? Just remember the old saying: “hindsight is 20/20.” Consider who has been the lead player in disclosing this “coverup” — a tabloid that makes its living off digging up whatever smut it can.

[Mark_Smith]

Joel Shaffer wrote:

​Do you realize that if the Duggars had reported it right away and the right way in the first place, which would have led Josh to served time for the crime in a juvenile home for 6 months or so, there would have been absolutely no way these records could have been made public? In some ways, they are reaping the consequences of the sin that they sowed.

Excuse me?

What sin did Jim Bob sow?

Joel, why are you so supportive of the state’s juvenile justice system like it is an infallible solution?

You say that if they had sent Josh to juvenile “jail” there is no way it would have been released to the media. How do you know that? It is ILLEGAL for the police report to be released. Do you deny that?

1. Sin of omission and allowing not allowing the state to deal with his son’s crime against his daughters and the other victim (Romans 13:1-7). a child sexually fondling other children in this case is a 4th degree sexual conduct misdemeanor.

2. No the State is not infallible solution. It is broken too. However, again I have had many of my students get saved in a Juvenile home for similar crimes. He did the crime. He needed to do the time.

3. Actually it is not illegal because Josh was never arrested. the Freedom of Information (FOI) law in Arkansas states that the records of the arrest of a juvenile “shall remain confidential” and “shall not be subject to disclosure under the FOI.” As I just mentioned, if he had been arrested and convicted it would have been illegal for them to expose what happened.

[jimcarwest]

Joel Shaffer wrote:

jimcarwest wrote:

Jumping to conclusions is the only exercise some people get. They ignore, however, the clear teaching of Prov. 18:13, which says:

“He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.” KJV

“Spouting off before listening to the facts is both shameful and foolish.” (NLT)

A few participants in this thread on the Duggars are all too eager to chime in with the efforts to crucify the family and do damage to the children they pretend to be defending. Based upon “reports” in the liberal, anti-Christian media and their own experiences, they have slandered a family that has attempted to do the best for their son, their daughters, and their entire family. In my opinion, such zeal is not needed in this discussion. Most participants to this discussion on SI have no intention of giving evil a pass, and we certainly do not wish to accuse each other of being soft on child molestation. Having heard the Duggars, being carefully interviewed by Megan Kelly, we are glad we didn’t “jump to conclusions” as some others have done. Now let’s join with the Duggars in supporting the fight against the unlawful release of sealed records of minors. Let’s see if there is as much support to protect minors for this effort as there is for damaging the Duggar family.

Do you realize that if the Duggars had reported it right away and the right way in the first place, which would have led Josh to served time for the crime in a juvenile home for 6 months or so, there would have been absolutely no way these records could have been made public? In some ways, they are reaping the consequences of the sin that they sowed. Now that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have compassion on them. However, I am just waiting for Jim Bob to come out and state that he messed up with the action or lack of action that he took to deal with his son’s sin and crime (which comes across as a coverup to alot of people) He still isn’t owning up to that particular sin. When he does, I’m sure the church-at-large will extend even more grace and forgiveness to them.

Put yourself in their place. You have no prior experience with a situation like this. Your own dear son has come to you crying and showing remorse over what he has done. His sisters don’t even know it happened and don’t show any trauma whatsoever. They have to learn about it from their parents. As a parent, you only know what the son has confessed. So now you tell me that you are going to panic, assume a sexual assault has taken place, call 911, get the social services involved, turn your son over to the police. Give me a break, Joel. Unless you are very different that the person you have always presented yourself as, I think you are acting on hindsight and not on conviction. So just what is the “sin they have sowed”? Just remember the old saying: “hindsight is 20/20.” Consider who has been the lead player in disclosing this “coverup” — a tabloid that makes its living off digging up whatever smut it can.

I disagree with the notion that the sisters and the other victim didn’t know what happened. That has never been the narrative from either JimBob or Josh. As Christians, we can’t white wash this. By the way, my job requires me to be a mandatory reporter with our urban ministry and I have reported about 20 cases, some of which are very similar to this. If it were my son, I’d also have to report this as well. I wouldn’t be delaying it 1 to 2 years, relying on family meetings and the counseling from a work group of Bill Gothardites to straighten my son out. I will always assume that JimBob’s intentions were good, that he acted out of ignorance, but he really really messed up in dealing with this and unfortunately it comes across to most everyone as a coverup.

[Joel Shaffer]

jimcarwest wrote:

Joel Shaffer wrote:

jimcarwest wrote:

Jumping to conclusions is the only exercise some people get. They ignore, however, the clear teaching of Prov. 18:13, which says:

“He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.” KJV

“Spouting off before listening to the facts is both shameful and foolish.” (NLT)

A few participants in this thread on the Duggars are all too eager to chime in with the efforts to crucify the family and do damage to the children they pretend to be defending. Based upon “reports” in the liberal, anti-Christian media and their own experiences, they have slandered a family that has attempted to do the best for their son, their daughters, and their entire family. In my opinion, such zeal is not needed in this discussion. Most participants to this discussion on SI have no intention of giving evil a pass, and we certainly do not wish to accuse each other of being soft on child molestation. Having heard the Duggars, being carefully interviewed by Megan Kelly, we are glad we didn’t “jump to conclusions” as some others have done. Now let’s join with the Duggars in supporting the fight against the unlawful release of sealed records of minors. Let’s see if there is as much support to protect minors for this effort as there is for damaging the Duggar family.

Do you realize that if the Duggars had reported it right away and the right way in the first place, which would have led Josh to served time for the crime in a juvenile home for 6 months or so, there would have been absolutely no way these records could have been made public? In some ways, they are reaping the consequences of the sin that they sowed. Now that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have compassion on them. However, I am just waiting for Jim Bob to come out and state that he messed up with the action or lack of action that he took to deal with his son’s sin and crime (which comes across as a coverup to alot of people) He still isn’t owning up to that particular sin. When he does, I’m sure the church-at-large will extend even more grace and forgiveness to them.

Put yourself in their place. You have no prior experience with a situation like this. Your own dear son has come to you crying and showing remorse over what he has done. His sisters don’t even know it happened and don’t show any trauma whatsoever. They have to learn about it from their parents. As a parent, you only know what the son has confessed. So now you tell me that you are going to panic, assume a sexual assault has taken place, call 911, get the social services involved, turn your son over to the police. Give me a break, Joel. Unless you are very different that the person you have always presented yourself as, I think you are acting on hindsight and not on conviction. So just what is the “sin they have sowed”? Just remember the old saying: “hindsight is 20/20.” Consider who has been the lead player in disclosing this “coverup” — a tabloid that makes its living off digging up whatever smut it can.

I disagree with the notion that the sisters and the other victim didn’t know what happened. That has never been the narrative from either JimBob or Josh. As Christians, we can’t white wash this. By the way, my job requires me to be a mandatory reporter with our urban ministry and I have reported about 20 cases, some of which are very similar to this. If it were my son, I’d also have to report this as well. I wouldn’t be delaying it 1 to 2 years, relying on family meetings and the counseling from a work group of Bill Gothardites to straighten my son out. I will always assume that JimBob’s intentions were good, that he acted out of ignorance, but he really really messed up in dealing with this and unfortunately it comes across to most everyone as a coverup.

Can you affirm that your notion is indeed the facts? Are you saying or implying that Jim Bob is a liar? What will you say if the two girls back up their father’s testimony? That you disagree with the testimony of the victims? It’s unbelievable the length that some will go to have it their way! My research on the laws of mandatory reporting in Arkansas reveals that the law does not require a parent to report his own child. The laws are more stringent re: a person like yourself in an urban ministry than they are for a parent. Apparently, some leeway is afforded to parents in the rearing of their children. You may or may not agree with Social Services in wanting to take away parenting responsibilities from parents, but you don’t have the law on your side — at least not in Arkansas. And notice the inconsistency of your argument about “Gothardites.” You imply that Gothard’s moral failures must therefore be passed on to all who once identified with him in any way. That would be hundreds of thousands of American Christians, but maybe you’re too young to remember. I am not. Shouldn’t we then incriminate all the members of a church whose pastor has molested a minor? Let’s keep a consistent logic, or all discussion breaks down.

You don’t believe physicists about the age of the universe, for example, but you are MORE THAN WILLING to trust godless psychology to rehabilitate a boy with this problem? How is that consistent?