We Must Heed the Vital Message of 1 Corinthians 10:18-20

1 Corinthians 10:18-20 provides vital instruction that every believer must heed:

1 Corinthians 10:18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? 19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? 20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

To eat in a worship context of what has been sacrificed on an altar to an idol is to be a partaker of the altar. To do so is also to have fellowship with demons!

Such fellowship with demons is not contingent upon a person's having to offer the sacrifices himself. Anyone who eats of such sacrifices comes into fellowship with demons.

The passage also does not provide any basis to say or to hold that this only happens sometimes--in a worship context, anyone who eats what has been sacrificed to an idol has fellowship with demons. God does not want any humans to have fellowship with demons!

38922 reads
RajeshG's picture

Kevin Miller wrote:

 

RajeshG wrote:

 

 

Kevin Miller wrote:

 

I had forgotten that Moses came down from the mountain for a short period of time between Exodus 20 and Exodus 32. So which of these three feasts from Exodus 23:14 is the one that you think was taking place during the GCI? Was it the feast of unleavened bread or the feast of harvest or the feast of ingathering?

 

The passage does not provide the information needed to know which feast it was, and it is not necessary to know. The point stands just the same.

 

Since your claim is that Aaron was following a set schedule for feasts, then your point falls immediately if you can't name the feast he supposedly had to be observing. If it is not one of these three feasts established in the law, then Aaron was acting on his own authority to call a feast.

Really? If I cannot name the feast, that proves that it was not one of the three and that Aaron was doing his own thing? What is your proof that it was not a God-appointed feast?

RajeshG's picture

Kevin Miller wrote:

 

RajeshG wrote:

 

Think about what you are saying. Moses is explaining why he didn't hear it as the sound of war by saying that it was not the sound of victory or the sound of defeat so it couldn't have been the sound of war? That would mean Moses believed that those are the only two sounds that are possibly the sound of war. We know that Moses did not believe anything like that because he knew from experience that the sound of war comprises more than just those two sounds.

Saying those two things is not a quick explanation for why some sound is not the sound of war because the majority of a battle that lasts for any length of time is not going to sound like either victory or defeat. It simply does not work to say that those two statements are a viable explanation, even a quick one, for why a sound is not the sound of war. 

 

In my view, those two sounds are a VERY accurate summary of all the sounds that take place in a war. To say "It's not war,", Moses didn't need to say, "It's not swords clashing and it's not horses stomping and it's not spears whistling through the air and it's not cries of pain and it's not calling for reinforcements, and on and on." What is so hard to understand about taking two predominate aspects and using them to refer to a whole? You were the one talking about what he needed to say. He didn't need to say three paragraphs to be summarizing war when he said the sound wasn't war.

No, those two sounds are not at all an accurate summary of all the sounds of war. I'm amazed that you think that they are.

What is so hard to understand that Moses could have simply said, "It's not the sound of war . . . Six or seven words and he has covered everything--not 23 words (counting italics) that did not need to be said at all.

 

RajeshG's picture

Kevin Miller wrote:

 

RajeshG wrote:

 

Think about what you are saying. Moses is explaining why he didn't hear it as the sound of war by saying that it was not the sound of victory or the sound of defeat so it couldn't have been the sound of war? That would mean Moses believed that those are the only two sounds that are possibly the sound of war. We know that Moses did not believe anything like that because he knew from experience that the sound of war comprises more than just those two sounds.

Saying those two things is not a quick explanation for why some sound is not the sound of war because the majority of a battle that lasts for any length of time is not going to sound like either victory or defeat. It simply does not work to say that those two statements are a viable explanation, even a quick one, for why a sound is not the sound of war. 

 

What is so hard to understand about taking two predominate aspects and using them to refer to a whole?

They are not two predominate aspects referring to the whole; they are two predominate aspects that refer to the outcome of a battle.

RajeshG's picture

After his conversation with Joshua about the composite musical sound that from a distance they both were hearing emanating from the camp (Ex. 32:17-18), the Spirit records Moses' response when he came near the camp:

Exodus 32:19 And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

Some say that Moses was only angry at seeing the idol but not at seeing the dancing. That reading does not do justice to the Spirit's mentioning the dancing in the first place. The Spirit wanted us to know that there was dancing going on, and He wanted us to know that Moses exploded in anger when he saw the idol and the dancing.

Others say that Moses was angry at seeing the dancing, but only because it was directed to the wrong object. Otherwise, they say, the dancing was the same godly dancing that the Israelites regularly used in their worship.

Saying that people under strong demonic influence are yet going to dance in the same godly ways that godly Israelites did earlier (Ex. 15:20) is a ridiculous notion. Moses' anger at seeing the dancing does not support at all such a notion.

The Israelites who were idolatrously playing in the GCI (1 Cor. 10:7) were dancing in immoral, ungodly ways that elicited the burning anger of the godly, Spirit-filled prophet Moses.

Moses' anger at the dancing also points to the nature of the music that they were dancing to. Their immoral, perverse dancing further points to the ungodly music that was being played and sung in the GCI.

Just as belly dancers and strippers do not do their dances to lullaby music, so these idolaters were not dancing in godly ways to godly Israelite music. The music matched the perversity of all that was taking place. Both their dancing and their music was perverse.

MF's picture

Hi Rajesh,

I am sorry I thought you compared evil music to evil eating to make your point. Was I wrong? My bad. 

RajeshG's picture

MF wrote:

Hi Rajesh,

I am sorry I thought you compared evil music to evil eating to make your point. Was I wrong? My bad. 

No problem, Mike. I have not made any such comparison.

MF's picture

Hi Rajessh,

I assume your point is that we should avoid every kind of evil, a truly noble call if ever there was one. Now, when you write, "To eat in a worship context of what has been sacrificed on an altar to an idol is to be a partaker of the altar," what do you mean by worship context? Are you talking about church meetings or dinner with family and friends or restaurants or something else entirely? Where and how shall I avoid this evil you speak of? 

 

RajeshG's picture

MF wrote:

Hi Rajesh,

I assume your point is that we should avoid every kind of evil, a truly noble call if ever there was one. Now, when you write, "To eat in a worship context of what has been sacrificed on an altar to an idol is to be a partaker of the altar," what do you mean by worship context? Are you talking about church meetings or dinner with family and friends or restaurants or something else entirely? Where and how shall I avoid this evil you speak of? 

God is intentionally very discrete about the information that He provides about the evil activities of evil people and their evil deeds. In His perfect wisdom, He has not given us detailed information, and He does not want us to seek such information. He wants us to have no fellowship with their unfruitful works of darkness (Eph. 5:11).

In 1 Cor. 10, Paul talks specifically about unbelievers who in a place of worship offer sacrifices to a physical object of worship and then as part of their worship consume those sacrifices in some sort of meal. 

Any "church meetings" where such things were to be practiced would be forbidden occasions for God's people. Beyond that, further discussion in this direction is not what I would like to talk about in this thread, especially not at this time. There are resources available that you could consult for discussions of that nature.

I would like to keep this thread focused on specific discussion of what has been revealed about the GCI and how we are to understand what took place on that occasion. Thanks.

MF's picture

Aahh, the Golden Calf Incident, I get it now. That was a bad thing. I mean Moses broke the commandments over it. Wow! Shall we smash our Bibles? Shall we drink water with Gold dust? Shall we avoid gatherings like the plague? What about dancing and singing and music? Shall we tell our children to cease and desist? (I always wanted to use that word -  did I get it right?). Bear with me as I meditate Rajeesh...  Philippians 4:5 says, "LET YOUR REASONABLENESS BE KNOWN TO EVERYONE. THE LORD IS AT HAND." Clearly we should avoid every semblance of evil including the snare of the devil, or arrogance. Proverbs 20:3 says, "It is honorable for a man to stop striving, Since any fool can start a quarrel." So then we not only have to avoid evil. We have to avoid being proud of it. Let me check with Moses just to be sure. Apparently, Moses interceded for them first. I guess I should quit wasting my time blogging and get to it. Seeya Rajeesh! God bless you.

 

RajeshG's picture

MF wrote:

Aahh, the Golden Calf Incident, I get it now. That was a bad thing. I mean Moses broke the commandments over it. Wow! Shall we smash our Bibles? Shall we drink water with Gold dust? Shall we avoid gatherings like the plague? What about dancing and singing and music? Shall we tell our children to cease and desist? (I always wanted to use that word -  did I get it right?). Bear with me as I meditate Rajeesh...  Philippians 4:5 says, "LET YOUR REASONABLENESS BE KNOWN TO EVERYONE. THE LORD IS AT HAND." Clearly we should avoid every semblance of evil including the snare of the devil, or arrogance. Proverbs 20:3 says, "It is honorable for a man to stop striving, Since any fool can start a quarrel." So then we not only have to avoid evil. We have to avoid being proud of it. Let me check with Moses just to be sure. Apparently, Moses interceded for them first. I guess I should quit wasting my time blogging and get to it. Seeya Rajeesh! God bless you.

 

Hmm. Perhaps you are repeatedly misspelling my name in your posts innocently . . . In case that might be true, my name is Rajesh. Thanks.

Also, since you possibly intend to imply that I am a fool who is needlessly starting and perpetuating a quarrel, I suggest strongly that you not waste any more of your time or mine by directing any more comments to me on this thread.

See you later. May God bless you so that you please Him in all your ways.

RajeshG's picture

In his burning anger at seeing the idol and the dancing, Moses shattered the tablets (Ex. 32:19) and then proceeded to destroy the calf:

Exodus 32:20 And he took the calf which they had made, and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it.

Scripture does not explain why Moses shattered the tablets or why he made the children of Israel drink of the water after his having scattered the powdery remains of the calf after he had destroyed it.

His having destroyed the calf has key ramifications for our understanding of the GCI, as follows. According to many Bible readers, the key problems in what took place were that the people's hearts were wrong and that they were directing their godly worship forms to an idol. According to this view, none of the forms themselves were corrupt; they were simply misused for the worship of the wrong object.

As discussed previously, this view fails to account for key aspects of what took place on this occasion. What took place after Moses had destroyed the calf shows further that the view that these people were merely misdirecting godly forms to an ungodly object is a completely erroneous understanding.

After making the people drink of the water (Ex. 32:20), Moses confronted Aaron about the "great" sin that he had brought on the people (Ex. 32:21-24). What the text says next is vital to notice:

Exodus 32:25 And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies).

According to the flow of thought in the passage, it seems that even after his having already destroyed the calf, Moses saw that the people were naked and/or wildly out-of-control.

Again, according to the view that godly Israelites forms were being directed to an ungodly object, the problem was not with any of the forms but only with their hearts and the object. That this view is an impossible view to defend is clear from the people being naked and/or wildly out-of-control. Under no conditions whatever on any occasion did any of Israel's godly worship forms include people being naked and/or wildly out-of-control.

The view that the Israelites were using only godly forms in their idolatrous playing in the GCI must explain why these people were naked and/or wildly out-of-control!

Moreover, the people seemingly were seen by Moses to be this way even after their ungodly object of worship had been destroyed!

Why were these idolaters who were supposedly using only godly worship forms in their idolatrous playing naked and/or wildly out-of-control? 
 

Jay's picture

You are arguing against a position that nobody here holds when you say this:

The view that the Israelites were using only godly forms in their idolatrous playing in the GCI must explain why these people were naked and/or wildly out-of-control!

You do know that, right?

"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells

RajeshG's picture

Jay wrote:

You keep arguing against a position that nobody here holds.  You do know that, right?

Really? Kevin has been arguing throughout this thread that these people were using their normal godly Israelite instrumental music in their worship on this occasion. The vast majority of this discussion has been my talking about why that could not have been and was not true and his talking about why it could have been true.

Or, to put it differently, perhaps, you are saying that everyone agrees that the lyrics were ungodly and maybe also the dancing and maybe even their singing style but certainly not their instrumental music.

Kevin Miller's picture

RajeshG wrote:

 

Jay wrote:

 

You keep arguing against a position that nobody here holds.  You do know that, right?

 

 

Really? Kevin has been arguing throughout this thread that these people were using their normal godly Israelite instrumental music in their worship on this occasion. The vast majority of this discussion has been my talking about why that could not have been and was not true and his talking about why it could have been true.

Or, to put it differently, perhaps, you are saying that everyone agrees that the lyrics were ungodly and maybe also the dancing and maybe even their singing style but certainly not their instrumental music.

I've been arguing throughout this thread that the Bible doesn't tell us the exact sound of the music that was being played. Have you found a verse that mentions the exact sound of the music being played? Whenever I have presented my own opinion about what the music could have been, I have used the phrase "could have been." Since we don't have the type of music recorded for us (have you found that verse yet?), then it could have been any number of possibilities, including their normal music being used in an ungodly way. Maybe I need to ask you this question very specifically. Are you denying the possibility that godly music could ever be used in an ungodly way? Is it totally impossible for that to ever happen? We were talking about this very issue when we had the week-long discussion of what the fallen angels could have been playing in worship to Satan after they fell. You kept trying to draw the conversation back to the GCI instead of specifically answering my question about whether it is possible or impossible for godly praise music to ever be used in an ungodly way by being directed to someone or something other than God.

Kevin Miller's picture

RajeshG wrote:

Really? If I cannot name the feast, that proves that it was not one of the three and that Aaron was doing his own thing? What is your proof that it was not a God-appointed feast?

Because I looked the instructions for the three feasts, and none of those instructions seemed to be followed. God didn't appoint the collection of earrings to make an idol to be worshipped at the feast. You seemed rather offended that I would impugn the name of God by even suggesting such a thing earlier, but YOU are the one insisting Aaron is only following God's authority for having this feast. If this WAS a God-appointed feast, then why are you so insistent that their normal God-appointed music wasn't being used?

RajeshG's picture

Kevin Miller wrote:

 

RajeshG wrote:

 

Really? If I cannot name the feast, that proves that it was not one of the three and that Aaron was doing his own thing? What is your proof that it was not a God-appointed feast?

 

Because I looked the instructions for the three feasts, and none of those instructions seemed to be followed. God didn't appoint the collection of earrings to make an idol to be worshipped at the feast. You seemed rather offended that I would impugn the name of God by even suggesting such a thing earlier, but YOU are the one insisting Aaron is only following God's authority for having this feast. If this WAS a God-appointed feast, then why are you so insistent that their normal God-appointed music wasn't being used?


 

Barring any evidence to the contrary, of which there is none, the text informs us that Aaron merely declared that on the next day there was supposed to be a feast to the Lord (which God had previously ordained and scheduled to take place on that next day). I have not claimed that what actually happened on that day actually turned out to be observed as a God-appointed feast. When these wicked people rose up in the morning to offer sacrifices to the idol and then consumed them in a worship context, they were already partnering with demons so there is no basis for saying that anything else in that perverted religious feast was what it normally would have been.

If your position were correct that Aaron on his own authority instituted his own national feast to the Lord, he was sinning immensely by not only making the idol but also originating a worship feast that was not God-ordained. In that case, you would have us to believe that these wicked people who have already sinned by making an idol and worshiping it in a feast of their own origination still for some inexplicable reason chose to use only godly worship music in their perversion.

Moreover, these same wicked people who were only using godly instrumental music were naked and wildly dancing-out-of control in non-Israelite ways in worship of the idol. Explain why they were naked and wildly, shamefully dancing out-of-control when their whole intent was to use godly forms in a feast to the Lord. Explain how and why they were naked and dancing shamefully out-of-control to godly Israelite worship music.

 

 

RajeshG's picture

Kevin Miller wrote:

 

RajeshG wrote:

 

 

Jay wrote:

 

You keep arguing against a position that nobody here holds.  You do know that, right?

 

 

Really? Kevin has been arguing throughout this thread that these people were using their normal godly Israelite instrumental music in their worship on this occasion. The vast majority of this discussion has been my talking about why that could not have been and was not true and his talking about why it could have been true.

Or, to put it differently, perhaps, you are saying that everyone agrees that the lyrics were ungodly and maybe also the dancing and maybe even their singing style but certainly not their instrumental music.

 

I've been arguing throughout this thread that the Bible doesn't tell us the exact sound of the music that was being played. Have you found a verse that mentions the exact sound of the music being played? Whenever I have presented my own opinion about what the music could have been, I have used the phrase "could have been." Since we don't have the type of music recorded for us (have you found that verse yet?), then it could have been any number of possibilities, including their normal music being used in an ungodly way. Maybe I need to ask you this question very specifically. Are you denying the possibility that godly music could ever be used in an ungodly way? Is it totally impossible for that to ever happen? We were talking about this very issue when we had the week-long discussion of what the fallen angels could have been playing in worship to Satan after they fell. You kept trying to draw the conversation back to the GCI instead of specifically answering my question about whether it is possible or impossible for godly praise music to ever be used in an ungodly way by being directed to someone or something other than God.

I have never denied the possibility that godly music could ever be used in an ungodly way. What I have denied and still deny is that there is any possibility that the music in the GCI was godly Israelite worship music.

The Bible does give us more than enough basis to know that the music on this occasion was not their normal godly music. Their normal godly worship music in a feast to the Lord would most definitely have been music that would be recognizable from a distance as the sound of joy (Neh. 12:43). Moses would definitely have said that what he heard was the sound of people rejoicing, but he did not say that. He said that it was the sound of singing. Explain why he did not say that it was the sound of joy, as the normal Israelite worship music certainly would have sounded.

Joshua would never have mistaken a sound of joy emanating from the camp as a war-like sound. He was very familiar with the sounds of all Israelite worship music from personal experience. He also knew what the sounds of war were. 

Jay's picture

I have never denied the possibility that godly music could ever be used in an ungodly way. What I have denied and still deny is that there is any possibility that the music in the GCI was godly Israelite worship music.

This is the whole point, Rajesh.  If you go all the way back to page 1 of this thread or the GCI thread, almost everyone - quite possibly everyone - said that we don't have enough information about the music to argue either that the music was or wasn't godly.  The whole situation was a disaster and displeasing to God, for which He quickly acted and vindicated His glory, although Moses had to intercede to save many.  You're the person that's bringing up the whole thing about whether or not it was "godly music" or "ungodly music". 

Go back and re-read those early posts.

"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells

Bert Perry's picture

It's corporate shouting, as is seen in Psalm 100:1-5, Psalm 98:4, and Psalm 66: 1-5.  Obviously that was un-Godly because it was shouting.   And since tympani sound a lot like cannon, as anyone who's listened to the 1812 Overture knows, that means that this orchestra is way out of line.  And a roll on cymbals sounds a lot like a sword being pulled from its sheath, and cymbals being smashed together, as in Psalm 150:5, sounds like the clash of sword or pike on plate armor.....

Suffice it to say that I think someone's hypothesis needs a little bit of work, Biblically speaking.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

RajeshG's picture

Jay wrote:

I have never denied the possibility that godly music could ever be used in an ungodly way. What I have denied and still deny is that there is any possibility that the music in the GCI was godly Israelite worship music.

This is the whole point, Rajesh.  If you go all the way back to page 1 of this thread or the GCI thread, almost everyone - quite possibly everyone - said that we don't have enough information about the music to argue either that the music was or wasn't godly.  The whole situation was a disaster and displeasing to God, for which He quickly acted and vindicated His glory, although Moses had to intercede to save many.  You're the person that's bringing up the whole thing about whether or not it was "godly music" or "ungodly music". 

Go back and re-read those early posts.

Yes, I know very well that I am the one who started the thread. We have more than enough information to know that the music was ungodly, as was the singing and the dancing.

RajeshG's picture

Kevin Miller wrote:

 

Maybe I need to ask you this question very specifically. Are you denying the possibility that godly music could ever be used in an ungodly way? Is it totally impossible for that to ever happen? We were talking about this very issue when we had the week-long discussion of what the fallen angels could have been playing in worship to Satan after they fell. You kept trying to draw the conversation back to the GCI instead of specifically answering my question about whether it is possible or impossible for godly praise music to ever be used in an ungodly way by being directed to someone or something other than God.

Where does the Bible say that fallen angels have ever played instrumental music in worship of Satan? I seem to have missed that verse or those verses repeatedly. Please tell me where they are.

Otherwise, this whole line of questioning is unbiblical speculation that is not based at all on what God has revealed did actually ever happen but instead exalts human wisdom about what might be possible in a way that seemingly would allow one to avoid the clear implications of what He has actually revealed.

RajeshG's picture

Craig Toliver wrote:

It is not surprising that people who aren't interested in actually engaging with what God has revealed grow tired when a conversation is continually focused on careful examination and discussion of what He has revealed.

Jay's picture

Yes, I know very well that I am the one who started the thread. We have more than enough information to know that the music was ungodly, as was the singing and the dancing.

Again, that's the whole point.  The package is ungodly.  There's no clear instruction on how the music was ungodly, the style it was played in, the instruments used, and whether or not the music somehow communicated supernaturally to demons.  God himself declares the problem:

Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt. They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.

Yes, Moses got angry when he saw the calf and the dancing, but so much of what you have written is exactly what you just decried:

Otherwise, this whole line of questioning is unbiblical speculation that is not based at all on what God has revealed did actually ever happen but instead exalts human wisdom about what might be possible in a way that seemingly would allow one to avoid the clear implications of what He has actually revealed. 

Nobody here is convinced of the clear implications of what you are saying because it's almost exclusively based on what you think God has revealed.  That's exactly why several of us told you that you were eisegeting in the Exodus 32 thread and why I went after you for hermeneutical issues in that same thread.  Then you created a poll to understand where people were:

I would like to get objective evidence about how widespread the differing views about this question may be. 

And, at last check, you [edit - your position was] stomped - 14 Absolutely Nos, 2 Nos, 2 Probably Nos, and 2 Yeses and 1 Probable.  So 14% of the respondents agreed with you and I think it's safe to say you are one of the three, so that drops to 9%.  Then you got similar results in the same poll on that someone put up in Facebook - 25 Nos, 0 Yes, 2 Probables and 3 Maybes.

The members of SI and other pastors are telling you something, Rajesh.  You need to listen and stop attacking people's motives and listen.

"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells

RajeshG's picture

Jay wrote:

Again, that's the whole point.  The package is ungodly.  There's no clear instruction on how the music was ungodly, the style it was played in, the instruments used, and whether or not the music somehow communicated supernaturally to demons.  God himself declares the problem:

Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt. They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.

Wrong. God does not just limit the problem to their making the calf. God Himself in the NT declares what is most pertinent to Christians: 

1 Cor. 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them: as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play."

You and others claim that God has left it unclear for us how He does not want us to play idolatrously, as these people did. You refuse to engage in the actual details of what God has revealed and simply claim that it's all so unclear as to be worthless to us and not worth much of anything other than telling us not to make an idol and worship it.

The poll was not to prove that I was right. I did not "get stomped," because the poll was not about me. It was an attempt to get objective data about what whoever was responding thinks about that specific question. The results were telling, but not in the way that you think.

If you do not want to engage in actual exegetical discussion of the details, you simply have the choice of not commenting. 

RajeshG's picture

After Moses had destroyed the calf and confronted Aaron, he saw the following:

Exodus 32:25 "And when Moses saw that the people were naked: (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies."

This inspired revelation says that the people were naked and/or wildly out-of-control and were so much so that way that Israel's unbelieving enemies were ashamed of what was taking place.

Dancing naked and shamefully out-of-control was never part of any godly Israelite worship. How does their dancing naked and shamefully out-of-control on this occasion support the view that they were using their godly worship music to worship the calf?

What does the fact that unbelieving enemies of Israel were ashamed of what was taking place tell us about the nature of what was taking place?

TylerR's picture

Editor

Moses, in Deuteronomy 9:6-21, provides a pretty definitive take on the nature of the rebellion at Sinai. Music is not mentioned. Idolatry via the calf is. 

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

RajeshG's picture

TylerR wrote:

Moses, in Deuteronomy 9:6-21, provides a pretty definitive take on the nature of the rebellion at Sinai. Music is not mentioned. Idolatry via the calf is. 

It does not matter that music is not mentioned in Deut. 9. It is a well-known fact that the Spirit provides differing information in differing passages when there are multiple parallel passages of an account. It is especially noteworthy that many of the details from Exodus 32 are not mentioned in Deut. 9, especially their offering sacrifices to the calf and eating them.

The NT definitively tells us not to be idolaters as they were when they ate and drank what was offered to the idol and rose up to play (1 Cor. 10:7). The NT, therefore, highlights for the special attention of believers what is completely unmentioned in Deut. 9.

The NT is the final word for what is especially authoritative for believers to know and to follow. The Spirit wants us to focus on their consuming what was sacrificed to the idol and their subsequent idolatrous playing.

pvawter's picture

RajeshG wrote:

The NT is the final word for what is especially authoritative for believers to know and to follow. The Spirit wants us to focus on their consuming what was sacrificed to the idol and their subsequent idolatrous playing.

What do you mean by 'especially authoritative'? Are the writings of Moses not as authoritative as those of Paul? I don't want to misrepresent what you're saying here, so I'd appreciate some clarification. 

RajeshG's picture

pvawter wrote:

 

RajeshG wrote:

 

The NT is the final word for what is especially authoritative for believers to know and to follow. The Spirit wants us to focus on their consuming what was sacrificed to the idol and their subsequent idolatrous playing.

 

 

What do you mean by 'especially authoritative'? Are the writings of Moses not as authoritative as those of Paul? I don't want to misrepresent what you're saying here, so I'd appreciate some clarification. 

The Spirit inspired at least 5 Scripture writers to write about the GCI: Moses (Ex. 32; Deut 9); Nehemiah; (Neh. 9) the writer of Ps. 106; Luke (Acts 7) and Paul (1 Cor. 10:7). Had the Spirit revealed to us everything that he wanted us to know about the GCI and its relevance for us through Moses, He would not have inspired any other Scripture writers to write more about it. Because He inspired Paul to have the final words about it to God's people and Paul wrote about it in a NT epistle and because Paul used an imperative specifically directed to Christians, 1 Cor. 10:7 has special weight for us in directing us about what we are especially to pay attention to concerning the GCI. 

Pages