Bob Jones G.R.A.C.E. news in New York Times

Why is it that people with no apparent connection to BJU or G.r.a.c.e. feel the need to post open letters? I don’t know who Robert Peters is, other than what his facebook page says, but I don’t see any connection to either group. So what makes his opinion so important? (of course what makes mine any more relevant? … “Just sayin’” ). I just get frustrated with so many who seem to have such little real understanding of the whole situation being so dogmatic on “what is really going on here.” I agree with others that Proverbs 18:3 seems quite relevant.

And why do people keep saying “Stephen is better than his predecessors”? I never met Bob Jones Jr. or Sr. but I attended BJ during Bob Jones III’s tenure and I have not met a more gracious and godly man. Stephen has been great for the school, and I am sad to see him go for genuine health reasons, but at least in my opinion(fwiw) Bob III was a tremendous leader and I have been blessed by his ministry for years now.

[mmartin]

Maybe this conflict between BJU and GRACE is legitimate - nor not. Maybe BJU is scared about following through with this investigation and report - or not. Time will tell.

Exactly. That’s why all the current (i.e. post GRACE firing) protests, open letters, etc., are just blowing smoke when they react in this way before all the truth is known. Some of the past attitudes of those at BJU are definitely to blame for the kind of reaction they are getting, but it’s also true that most of these groups that work so hard at opposing anything from BJU are incapable of seeing anything good. I’d bet money that *if* GRACE finishes the report and *if* there is no big cover-up found, there will be plenty who scream that BJU somehow suppressed the truth anyway. At least if that happens, I’ll be able to completely ignore all the current batch of protesters as having no credibility. That won’t be true for the media at large, but I wouldn’t expect anything better from them.

In the mean time, let’s all agree to wait and see what actually happens.

[Ryan]

…I attended BJ during Bob Jones III’s tenure and I have not met a more gracious and godly man. Stephen has been great for the school, and I am sad to see him go for genuine health reasons, but at least in my opinion(fwiw) Bob III was a tremendous leader and I have been blessed by his ministry for years now.

What you are saying here is true, but no man is perfect, and the “control” issues that BJU has had in the past have been manifest in some of the things BJIII has said/done over the years. I can think of two instances that convince me that it’s a good thing the new generation is different. One of these was public, and one private.

The public one is hard for some to forget. When BJIII went on Larry King Live to announce that the interracial dating policy was being done away with, he said one thing that was completely untrue — he said that that policy was “no big deal.” However, for many who were there at least in the 80’s, it was a *huge* deal (i.e. an expulsion offense, if not an offense against God), and we were told often that there was a scriptural basis to that rule (even if no one I know ever got a good explanation from the university what those reasons were). He should have (as Stephen later did) just said “we were wrong.”

The private one was a time that my wife and I (she was my girlfriend at the time) had an appointment to speak with BJIII in his office about something we believed the university had handled badly. When we didn’t immediately bow to his arguments, he completely lost his temper and blew up at us. I think he was expecting us to be cowed by his authority and just accept what he was saying without argument. That was not at all what I had expected, and I think, was more an outgrowth of the whole attitude of control that BJU had at that time. I don’t know how Stephen would handle things, but I would bet that the whole current attitude is quite different from what it had been in the past.

Neither of these incidents would make me believe that BJIII is not a “gracious and godly man.” We all have our faults, I’m sure mine are worse than his, and I’ve certainly had my share of temper problems over the years. Nonetheless, I’m grateful that the current leadership is not handling things the way they were handled in previous generations. BJU is a better school for it.

[Easton]

…Peterman is the student who claims he was shipped (expelled) for watching Glee on his laptop while in Starbucks. BJU may have expelled Chris because of his involvement with Dr. Lewis and the protest. He was two weeks from graduation. It does look suspicious, which is why his story has legs.

Of course, in obedience to Prov. 22:10 and other passages they may have expelled him as a “scorner” who they had tolerated too long. While we’re speculating we might as well put all the possibilities on the table. Just sayin’…

While I realize that Dr. Bob III doesn’t need me to stick up for him, I just felt as though the tone of many posts were derogatory towards the the school an past administrations and in my experience unnecessarily so. I think he would be the first to recognize and admit that he wasn’t perfect. I am sure he has regrets. I don’t envy the task he had presiding over the school during those difficult times. the 80’s and 90’s were a time of significant transition in our culture, especially regarding how people related to authority and leadership. To be honest I would probably have difficulty with a couple of teenagers coming into my office and telling me that I handled things badly and not buying the reasons I gave for it. I hope that I would handle it with grace, but probably not always. I am sorry that this was your experience. I attended school in the late 90’s early 2000’s and my every interaction with Dr. Bob both publicly and privately (and I had both) during my college years and since have left me with profound respect and appreciation for his godly character and gracious spirit. I realize this wasn’t everyone’s experience, but I am thankful for his influence in my life.

I know that the institution isn’t perfect, but I do thank God for it’s place in fundamental Christianity and in my life. I am praying for them in these difficult days.

Ryan,

The only time I’ve ever interacted with BJIII was when I walked across the FMA stage to get my diploma so I can’t speak from personal experience like you and Dave. However, I can speak from personal experiences with the other students and alumni, hearing BJIII speak in chapel and the general over-all attitude of the students, faculty and alumni.

I went to two different colleges including BJU. The other college was by far a kinder, gentler place in terms of the attitude of the college administration and alumni. It is no accident that BJU’s slogan/tag-line Pedimus Credimus is often sarcastically translated “We’re right, you are wrong.” BJU is/was all about making sure BJU looked good. The old version of BJU was Tiger Woods/Michael Jordan-like in controlling its image. I don’t know if you would historically put the words “BJU” & “Grace” in the same sentence unless it also included the word “Lacking.”

Which brings me back to this present time and BJU’s conflict with GRACE. I am happy to hear of the changes going on during Stephen Jones’ tenure. He really seems to “get it” about what it means to lead with grace and humility. Yes, I would say more so than his Dad.

As many here have said, time will tell, but it seems BJU could be caught between the new and old versions BJU. The old version would’ve never, ever, ever considered opening its doors for an independent ombudsman review.

Ryan,

I pretty much agree with everything you said here, except for the fact that my wife and I were in our 20’s when this happened (though that certainly means we were still quite young), and we were also gracious in explaining our issues, and wanted to handle it properly. That’s why we made the appointment with him, rather than “bad-mouthing” the university, starting a protest group, or writing an “open letter.” But that’s long in the past now, and I don’t hold it against the school, or against Dr. Bob for that matter.

If you take what I wrote as not being thankful for his (and the school’s) influence in my life, you’d be wrong. I also thank God for what the university has done for me, and I have two children there now, so you can see I still support them, not only in word, but with my money. Like you, I find that many of the things said about BJU are “unnecessarily derogatory” as you put it, and as you can see from my posts, I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I will continue to take a “wait and see” approach to the accusations being made now. I’m naïve enough to believe that the truth will eventually come out.

However, I’m still very glad that the current administration has made some really good changes compared to the way certain things were done in the past. As I said before, that doesn’t take away from Dr. Bob III being a godly and gracious man, but fundamentalism has changed, in many ways for the better, and I’m glad to see some of the new leaders taking responsibility for the things done wrong in the past, and working to change them. Stephen is among those men, and I’m personally sorry that the school is losing him. I hope the new leader continues in his vein, and I’m also praying for them as the anti-Christian climate gets worse and worse.

I pretty much agree with everything you said here, except for the fact that my wife and I were in our 20’s when this happened (though that certainly means we were still quite young), and we were also gracious in explaining our issues, and wanted to handle it properly. That’s why we made the appointment with him, rather than “bad-mouthing” the university, starting a protest group, or writing an “open letter.” But that’s long in the past now, and I don’t hold it against the school, or against Dr. Bob for that matter.

I’m just amazed that the President and Chancellor of the school took time out of his busy schedule to meet with two students who were concerned about an issue they’d seen at the school. The Administration of NIU would do that when I was there (hey, sometimes they even ate with the students at lunch!), but I never would have expected that at BJU. Kudos to Dr. Jones III for doing this, even if it did go poorly.

Does anyone know if that the kind of thing that happens there with any degree of frequency these days? I know Stephen has had his share of health problems, so I can understand if he didn’t.

Dave, I apologize if my comments toward you seemed negative or judgmental, I was just trying to look at the situation objectively without much of the facts (ironically that was what originally drew me into this conversation… ah to be consistent). I am glad that you were able to look past/forgive that episode. I realize that for many, their experience at Bob Jones University was not one that could be characterized by grace or joy. I imagine for many of these they perhaps brought that on themselves, but I also know that some through no fault of their own had a negative experience of the school and that has shaped their view of the school to this day. I just felt inclined to jump in because I did see many from the administration and faculty on down to some roommates who were amazing pictures of God’s mercy and grace. Though I wasn’t a “preacher boy” for long, or ever a hall leader/R.A., I wasn’t a “boj” (however you spell that one), but God did use the school in great ways in my life. In hind sight I imagine that this was due in large part to the prayers of my parents - prayers for godly roommates, prayers for gracious teachers, for a godly wife, etc.

I suppose the other irony (in my eyes at least) is that so many on the internet who are faulting the school for its lack of grace seem to be showing so little of it themselves. The “I’m glad BJ is getting what they deserve” mentality is … uh…lacking in grace. Sure this situation seems troubling, but in my sort-of-humble opinion the eagerness of so many to rip the school without all the facts, and the willingness to judge motives (doesn’t Paul say something about that?), all rubs me as something less than godly or gracious. Few of us have all the facts, so I imagine the body of Christ would at this point at least be better served by our humble prayers for all sides of this to do the right thing.

Like anyone who has had a long association with BJU, I have experienced disappointments, and I have experienced extraordinary examples of Christ-like dedication. No Christian is perfect, nor is any Christian institution. Like others, I have stories I could tell. Buried somewhere in my files is a letter I received from BJ III that almost burned my hands it was so hot. But it was good for me. I needed the rebuke, and I grew in grace because of it. I, too, have seen examples of BJU being more concerned for self advancement than truth. But I wonder how many times I may have done the same. For all its flaws, BJU has been, and continues to be, in my opinion, a solid Christian institution. At times, I have wished they would be more content to let another praise them than to trumpet their own achievements. Perhaps God is presently humbling them for their good and His glory. There seems to be a new, gentler spirit, for which I give God thanks. It seems that for some reason, those who have had contact with BJU either give it unqualified endorsement, or unrelenting criticism. Perhaps we all need to grow up a bit. May God help us to criticize humbly without rancor, and express gratitude without undue adulation. No one but God knows the whole truth, and eternity will reveal all. That applies to BJU, and it equally applies to me.

Typical of the training received by BJU “Preacher Boys” back in the 1970’s & 1980’s.

http://bjunews.com/2014/02/19/remember-this-bju-grad-who-said-that-only…