Ben Sasse: What happens on January 6?

Mark, Raffensperger’s people recorded the call as insurance. It wasn’t until Trump slandered/lied about Raffensperger (a republican, mind you) on Twitter that the recording was turned over to the media. And can anyone blame him?

Whataboutism is especially ill-conceived in this instance.

Nope. A clear eye on something is rotten in DC and politics.

My point was, the only way we know anything about Hillary Clinton’s campaign maneuvers and the FBI’s investigation into Trump is from wikileaks. In the four years since not one thing has been released from the FBI. We’re still waiting on the “investigation” report from Durham!

That is not “whataboutism”. Its plain observation.

Trump is not asking Raffensperger to lie. Trump really believes that tens of thousands of votes were illegally run through machines in Fulton county. You might not, but he does. He is asking Raffensperger to look into it.

And by the way, GA did a full signature audit in some little county and found nothing… Duh. The signature count needs to be done in Fulton county.

Anyway, I am not a conspiracy theorist, but I do think some suspicious things happened. Its probably too late to do anything about it now.

Not one mainstream media person has EVER been interested in looking into the astonishing investigation by the FBI by a president of the opposite political party candidate for President (Obama of Trump). It is all assumed to have been valid. Trump is evil and takes orders from Putin… That is what the regular media runs with to this day! No exaggeration there at all.

Not one leak out of the Obama admin about it. Imagine if Trump investigated Biden over his son. 5 minutes after the order was given someone at the AG or FBI would have called the WaPo or NYT about it.

None of this seems odd?

Multiple stories of how several Republican reps and senators plan to challenge the Electoral College acceptance tomorrow. It is called “unprecedented.” How many Democrats rejected Trumps count in 2017? Bush in 2001? None? Better think again.

Yet no mainstream media reports on it. Watched Meet the Press with Chuck Todd yesterday. Went on and on about how unique and crazy this is… To use a media term, that’s a lie.

As a GA Republican who lives in Fulton County and voted for Trump and wished he could have been re-elected, I’ve been absolutely appalled at Trump’s actions since the election and especially his treatment of his fellow Republicans here in the State of Georgia. I want Republicans to get elected but more than that, I want elections that are fair and reflect the votes of the people. Our governor and secretary of state both wanted Trump to get re-elected but they have too much integrity to overthrow the results of the election. They have looked into it, they have done recounts, they have done audits and Trump still lost. Trump is now saying that the GA runoff is unfair and illegal (or something like that) – and it is causing fellow Republican friends of mine to question if they should even bother to vote – I could quote you from a Facebook post if necessary. This is so ridiculous. If the GA run off goes to the Democrats, I’m going to blame Trump for depressing the Republican vote and making us Republicans look like a bunch of loonies.

[Mark_Smith]

And by the way, GA did a full signature audit in some little county and found nothing… Duh. The signature count needs to be done in Fulton county.

Anyway, I am not a conspiracy theorist, but I do think some suspicious things happened. Its probably too late to do anything about it now.

Cobb county is not some little county. It was one of the counties of concern. It has about 750,000 people in it on the north and east side of downtown Atlanta. Fulton has about 1M people. It wouldn’t matter what they did, someone would be saying they need to do more. Because the issue is not the signatures, the issue is that someone feels at the very bottom of their heart that something nefarious took place, and regardless of what is presented, it can’t overcome that feeling for someone.

[AndyE]

If the GA run off goes to the Democrats, I’m going to blame Trump for depressing the Republican vote and making us Republicans look like a bunch of loonies.

I agree, this is the biggest risk right now. If Republicans loose the Senate, we will have an interesting next two years, and not in a good way. Raffensberger has done a great job in following up and auditing and doing recounts. Were there some mistakes in votes? Most likely. Nothing is perfect. But if there was rampant fraud on the scale as large as Guiliani or Trump are touting, there is not way it would not have been found by the Justice Department, GBI, Georgia Secretary of State, numerous local audits, 3 recounts including a hand recount and a 99.99% confidence rating on the signature audit.

The fact is, that Trump vowed to make elections safe and secure at the beginning of his term and he put an organization in place to facilitate this. In the end, what he set out to happened. This was a very secure election. Now he is trying to shoot holes into something that he actually should have taken credit for.

I think we’re probably all agreed that some irregularities occurred, that some of these are properly termed “misconduct,” and that some might rise to the level of “fraud.” Maybe JoeB’s point is that these have all been handled, or are being handled, on the local level. Due process has happened or is happening. (I don’t want to put words in your mouth: do I have that right?)

We’re all probably also agreed that nothing happened on a large enough scale to make Trump the winner.

Also few, if any, would dispute that the media are generally quicker to jump on negative Trump-related information than they are info/allegations about leaders they like.

So, as far as this thread goes, it’s about what we prefer to emphasize, and what we see as relevant.

None of the past or present unfairness of the media reduces the seriousness of Trump’s misconduct or that of his radical right enablers.

Earlier—I think in this thread—I raised the question again of what does Trump really believe about all this. Is he a liar or deluded? I think the Raffensperger phone call answers that question pretty clearly. The man believes his own propaganda.

It matters because there are lessons to be learned here.

There really is such a thing as disqualifying poor character in leaders, especially leaders in very powerful positions. And disqualifying poor character doesn’t become acceptable if the alternative candidate has an evil policy agenda.

Poor character is contagious. It’s interesting to me that many of the same people who would claim leaders of various Christian ministries developed an ungodly, prideful, celebrity-worshiping culture in those ministries, think that the President of the U.S. isn’t going to corrupt the political culture of his party and administration.

Naive. Wishful thinking.

What we’re seeing now, with many Congressman and some Senators backing this illogical and pernicious pandering stunt of rejecting the election results, is the fruit of putting in charge of the party and the country the kind of man who shouldn’t be trusted to be in charge of anything.

People who tell themselves lies about how great and unbeatable they are—and believe those lies (and all the other lies they have to invent to sustain the fantasy)—can’t be trusted to be in charge of anything.

They breed the kind of fanatic followers who push the party and administration toward radicalism… think Lin Wood (fortunately, some Trump backers are waking up) and Louie Gohmert.

As bad as a Biden administration might be—especially if he gains a majority in both houses—the end of Trump’s presidency is divine mercy. (We might debate whether we’re going from frying pan to fire or fire back to frying pan. I think it’s pretty clearly the latter.)

Well, Aaron, for some here, character doesn’t matter, especially when a democrat is going to take office.

[Meghan Trainor]

Yeah, my momma she told me don’t worry about your character
She says, boys like a little more policy to hold at night
(That taxes, immigration, uh, that supreme court)
You know I won’t be no angel, moral conservative
So, if that’s what’s you’re into then go ahead and move along

Because you know I’m all about that policy
‘Bout that policy, not character
I’m all ‘bout that policy, ‘bout that policy, not character
I’m all ‘bout that policy, ‘bout that policy, not character
I’m all ‘bout that policy, ‘bout that policy

Aaron, I get your frustration with those who defend Trump when he is wrong because they agree with some of his policies. (I have to guard myself in this area because I did vote for Trump). Still I can see how easily it can happen- kind of like you defending Joe B when you like what he says. It is so easy for bias to creep into the lives even of godly people. We all need to understand that and show grace to each other when we have different opinions on whether or not substantial fraud occurred. I am sad how polarizing so much of this has become. Let us all be careful not to speculate on the motives of those who have different views about this election. Let us encourage each other that we should be able to have different opinions and still fellowship together.

[Aaron Blumer]

What we’re seeing now, with many Congressman and some Senators backing this illogical and pernicious pandering stunt of rejecting the election results, is the fruit of putting in charge of the party and the country the kind of man who shouldn’t be trusted to be in charge of anything.

I agree with most of what you said, but I don’t agree here. What these pols are doing is positioning themselves for the future. They can see where most of the Republicans are right now, or at least a significant portion of them. That is, there is a huge (yuuuge!!) block of Republicans supporting Trump. So these pols are trying to get out in front of these people either in their own interests of re-election in two years (Congressmen) or possible Presidential run in 2024. Cynical? Yes, but they are pols. That’s what it’s all about for them.

[Don Johnson]

I agree with most of what you said, but I don’t agree here. What these pols are doing is positioning themselves for the future. They can see where most of the Republicans are right now, or at least a significant portion of them. That is, there is a huge (yuuuge!!) block of Republicans supporting Trump. So these pols are trying to get out in front of these people either in their own interests of re-election in two years (Congressmen) or possible Presidential run in 2024. Cynical? Yes, but they are pols. That’s what it’s all about for them.

Don, I 100% agree with you here. Unfortunately I feel that Trump shifted the party significantly from where it was under Bush. I just wish the politicians had some more back bone to be leaders through this. I am worried that the pols will try to model themselves after Trump to get the votes and the party will further shift. At this point, I struggle with identifying as a member of the Republican Party. I agree with many of the stances and positions, but the party has taken a significant turn over the last 4 years, and specifically in the last year. We are seeing this shift in our churches as well.

Still I can see how easily it can happen- kind of like you defending Joe B when you like what he says. It is so easy for bias to creep into the lives even of godly people.

It might be relevant to the point, so I’ll clarify on this: I didn’t “defend Joe B.” I did attempt to restate one of his points, since I thought he meant something a bit different from what some seemed to think he meant. It looked to me like a point nobody actually disagrees with.

In any case, I only mention it because there’s a difference between saying “Trump was correct when he said X” or “Trump did the right thing when he did Y” vs. saying “Trump is a responsible and trustworthy human being.”

It also works the other way, a point lost on many of Trump’s most passionate defenders. By the other way, I mean saying “Trump was wrong to say X” or “wrong to do Y” isn’t the same as saying he’s an irresponsible and untrustworthy human being.

Trump himself does not make that distinction. You agree with everything he says and does or you are on his “people I’m going to publicly insult and, if they work for me, fire” list.

Anyway, here’s the category I’m in: “He says true things sometimes and does good things sometimes. This does not redeem him. It isn’t enough to compensate for the damage.” (Talking here about Trump, not Joe :-) )

The Risky Wager of Betting on Trump