Josh Duggar resigns from Family Research Council after sexual abuse allegations

[Jim]

Perhaps 14 kids (the number they had when this occurred) and counting … means too many kids for two parents to oversee.

The attitude of judging…too many kids, being hateful, opinion legalistic, acting like a dictator is why I ran away the typical IFB church and joined a church that is non-denominational but still preaches the Word and stands on doctrines from God’s Word and clear convictions and stays away from opinions and personal beliefs. The comment about Gothard was way over the top. As far as I can tell Josh became a Christian after the sinful experience…isn’t that what Christianity is all about…rescuing sinners…shouldn’t we be rejoicing that Josh got right with God??? We are supposed to be a Christian hospital in the business of healing rather than shooting each other.

Sexual abuse is an awful crime. God’s grace and forgiveness are wonderful healers. The only reason this crime rose to the surface again to inflict more damage is that a father and mother earned their money by inviting a TV station to broadcast their family life to the world. Fame comes at a high cost. I trust Jim Bob will note the lesson, and refocus on his family (away from the cameras).

It would seem to me that this situation is very damaging not just because of what Josh did but what happened afterward and how it was handled. Yes Josh can be forgiven but I am not sure that is the point. Here are some of my questions:

1) Did the Duggars warn their good friends they spent time with of the problem Josh had? (Maybe they did and maybe not; I don’t know. I am skeptical that they did because if they had, I think this would have been public sooner.)

2) Why did they not report it to the police until forced to four years later? Why was it Oprah who had to start the ball rolling?

3) Why did Jim Duggar apparently stonewall the police in producing Josh?

4) Why did they choose the “counseling” option that they did?

5) Why have they presented themselves as a model family with this just waiting to be uncovered from the past as if they were blissfully ignorant of the incredible damage this would do to the reputation of Christianity? (Perhaps the biggest surprise from this is that it took this long to come out.)

6) Why did Josh take the job he did (without telling his employer about this)? How could he possibly think his pontificating on the dangers of homosexuality in such a public way would not come back to make him look like a fool and biggest hypocrite of 2015 when this came out? That was breathtakingly ignorant and frankly, incredibly selfish.

So yes, by all means, Josh should get a second chance and should be forgiven. But that is just a piece of this. In retrospect, the Duggars should never have done the show with this in their closet unless they could have found a way to come clean about it (without jeopardizing the identities of victims).

I don’t want to throw stones at glass houses, since we all have our family struggles. Of course as others have said this is the price you pay when you sell yourself out for millions of dollars to be on public display. The challenge here is that this is not something you are “cured” of. This is an individual that has a propensity for something and has acted on that propensity. This is not in the same category as lying. Sexual abuse of children, especially siblings is an extremely bad activity. To classify these as “teenage mistakes” is a total misunderstanding of what really took place here. This is not as simple as forgiveness. It is not a natural propensity, which would be slipping out with your girlfriend and doing something like this. This was not just experimentation or a slip up. For me personally, I would not have married someone or had children with someone in which they admitted to this. God can forgive and we should forgive, but that doesn’t mean that you throw common sense out of the window. I would forgive someone, but I wouldn’t expose my own children to someone who had done this. The trust would be gone.

I think those who classify this as just forgiving someone just as if they had lied and we would forgive them for the lie that they committed are being naive and have not seen the linkages with this behavior and subsequent actions as that individual ages.

As someone else stated, it is great to have children, but when you begin to have nearly 20 children, you must give up your parental control and hand it off to much less mature individuals such as other children. There is no way that you can properly raise and be involved and have the right oversight over 20 children. I am not saying don’t have children, just people should be aware that there is a trade off that must take place.

[GregH]

So yes, by all means, Josh should get a second chance and should be forgiven.

I would agree with most of your points, and I would even agree about being forgiven. But I don’t agree on the second chance. Sexual molestations of a minor is not an isolated event. It is someone acting on a manifestation that they have. Studies have clearly linked that people are not “cured” of this. This is something they will struggle with for the rest of their life. The fact that it was siblings, puts a further distortion in this sin. This is not someone I would want to babysit my children, or have my children in their house unsupervised.

[GregH]

dgszweda wrote:

GregH wrote:

So yes, by all means, Josh should get a second chance and should be forgiven.

I would agree with most of your points, and I would even agree about being forgiven. But I don’t agree on the second chance. Sexual molestations of a minor is not an isolated event. It is someone acting on a manifestation that they have. Studies have clearly linked that people are not “cured” of this. This is something they will struggle with for the rest of their life. The fact that it was siblings, puts a further distortion in this sin. This is not someone I would want to babysit my children, or have my children in their house unsupervised.

By “second chance,” I am not saying I would leave him alone with my children for one second. I simply mean that his mistake does not mean he has to be locked away for the rest of life. He should be able to find an appropriate way to be a useful role in society. However, that would not include being a public mouthpiece for conservatives and making pompous railings about homosexuality while he has that in his past. How conservatives have to be squirming today. Can you imagine the damage he has done to that organization he worked for?

Excellent comments, Greg.

Who were the Duggar’s primary influences? Most specifically, Bill Gothard, who also fell from his throne after sexual misconduct allegations. He, too, modeled the hurry-up-and forgive-and -orget mantra so you don’t get bitter.

This family appears to be doing the same thing and have controlled the narrative on repentance and forgiveness for their victim daughters.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/05/22/why-we-c…

[QUOTE=USA Today] Josh Duggar was never charged with a crime, and the statute of limitations has now expired.

InTouch reported that his father took Josh to an Arkansas state trooper who was a personal friend, who took no action other than a “very stern talk.” That officer is now serving a 56-year term in prison for child pornography, the magazine reported, and no case was ever brought against Josh Duggar.[/QUOTE]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2015/05/21/duggars-reeling-from-j…

I am all for forgiveness, counseling, etc. But the law ought to be followed. The law protects the innocent among us.

That being said, it would be very difficult to take a 14 year-old son to the police.

A tough situation, aggravated by the foolish decision of parents to run their lives in front of America’s TV sets.

There are a lot of diametrically opposed thought processes when it comes to the Duggars.

First, have large families so you can be rewarded as a parent, yet move most of the parenting tasks to other children.

Live a life free of TV and the awful influences that it creates, yet make your fortune off of TV.

Live a chaste life so that you can show others what it means to live removed from sexual temptation yet hide your sexual molestations.

This is a tough time for the family no doubt. And I am sure a bunch of us sitting on the sidelines giving our viewpoint doesn’t help. But also not recognizing your sin for what it really is, has also now spread that hurt to other people and organizations.

What is also disturbing is that it seems from the police report that Jim Bob knew about it and tried to stop it but it continued and that is when it eventually got reported. Again, this just further highlights that these actions are not easy to stop and are not just simple transgressions. I hope this is a serious wake up call for many Christians who try to blow this stuff away. If it had been addressed properly, more minors would have not been molested. The damage this caused will go on for years. I just cannot fathom why someone would choose to have children with someone who had admitted doing this. I think it is naive to think that it won’t possibly happen to his own children.

What is even more damaging was that the abused were forced to spend every day with their abuser while being raised in the same home.

OK, it’s now time to stop bringing other organizations into this, unless there is a direct connection. The others (e.g. Phelps, ABWE, etc.) that were mentioned above have been discussed ad nauseum in other threads. Any more posts that gratuitously drag those in again will be summarily deleted. Stick to the topic, folks.

Appreciated the questions from Greg H…more food for thought and the seriousness of the offense

Another perspective from Mike Huckabee

Janet and I want to affirm our support for the Duggar family. Josh’s actions when he was an underage teen are as he described them himself, ‘inexcusable,’ but that doesn’t mean ‘unforgivable.’ He and his family dealt with it and were honest and open about it with the victims and the authorities. No purpose whatsoever is served by those who are now trying to discredit Josh or his family by sensationalizing the story. Good people make mistakes and do regrettable and even disgusting things. The reason that the law protects disclosure of many actions on the part of a minor is that the society has traditionally understood something that today’s blood-thirsty media does not understand—that being a minor means that one’s judgement is not mature. No one needs to defend Josh’s actions as a teenager, but the fact that he confessed his sins to those he harmed, sought help, and has gone forward to live a responsible and circumspect life as an adult is testament to his family’s authenticity and humility. Those who have enjoyed revealing this long ago sins in order to discredit the Duggar family have actually revealed their own insensitive bloodthirst, for there was no consideration of the fact that the victims wanted this to be left in the past and ultimately a judge had the information on file destroyed—not to protect Josh, but the innocent victims. Janet and I love Jim Bob and Michelle and their entire family. They are no more perfect a family than any family, but their Christian witness is not marred in our eyes because following Christ is not a declaration of our perfection, but of HIS perfection. It is precisely because we are all sinners that we need His grace and His forgiveness. We have been blessed to receive God’s love and we would do no less than to extend our love and support for our friends. In fact, it is such times as this, when real friends show up and stand up. Today, Janet and I want to show up and stand up for our friends. Let others run from them. We will run to them with our support.

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Jim, that’s more along the lines of the “direct connection” I mentioned. Simply throwing out names of organizations or people one does not like that are not at all related to the Duggars is what I was getting at.