Ben Sasse: What happens on January 6?

But it’s a completely separate problem from what Trump has inspired members of Congress to do in defiance of the rights of the states to control their electors.

Actually, challenging electors is a part of election law, the Electoral Count Act of 1887. It is perfectly legal to do so. (It is also silly, but we have seen a lot of silliness all the way around.)

[dgszweda] As disgraceful an act by a President if there ever was one.

I’m still one of those guys who think substantial fraud occurred, but I do not like how Trump has handled it. Today was a chance for the Senate to object and to present evidence. Some even suggested that today Pence could have punted and asked the states who sent multiple electors to clarify who got those electoral votes (even if that is a crazy idea, it would still be peaceful and have to go through the rule of law and any challenges that were within the law).

I am all in favor of peaceful protest, but calling for a protest at such a contentious time is not a good idea. No matter how peaceful the majority is, there are always a few crazys in a crowd that size and the risks were too great. Further there are people that just love to be rable rousers. The guy who sat in the House Speaker’s chair with the Viking hat was also seen at BLM rallies last summer. I have no idea if he believes in any of the causes he shows up for or if he just likes to show up and get attention.

I kind of feel like Trump just wanted attention today too and that he has distracted from real concerns that many of us still have. My hope was that state legislatures would further investigate the 2020 vote and put the speculations to rest one way or another. Now I fear that people will be so fed up with what happened today that other issues will be ignored.

Further it gives an excuse for tyrants to clamp down even further on freedom.

I also hope that those who broke into the capital building will be arrested and held accountable.

additional edit: I kind of hope that the frustration with Trump’s attention seeking will stop the talk of his possible 2024 bid for president. Yes, I voted for him, but I do not want to have to face the decision of having to consider voting for him again. I do not think he is as bad as some folks here do, but I am not a big fan either.

[JD Miller]

My hope was that state legislatures would further investigate the 2020 vote and put the speculations to rest one way or another. Now I fear that people will be so fed up with what happened today that other issues will be ignored.

As much as that sounds like a proper approach, those who believe the election was stolen, will not be swayed by any investigation. Even three recounts in Georgia, a signature audit and a full investigation of every point that Trump contends took place in Georgia, did absolutely nothing to stop the President and his supporters to continue to claim that 100’s of thousands of votes were stolen. What we are faced with is a very serious issue in this country. Proof will not change most of these people’s minds, anymore than proof has changed flat-earthers, or those who don’t believe we ever went to the moon. This is rising to a “cult” like status that is beginning to look more like Jonestown than anything else. As long as the president continues to spin this narrative and as long as far right media outlets continue to support it, you will have a large portion of the population believe it was fraudulent. This will not change, no matter how much investigation is done. Trump’s own team has stated that there was no fraud, even the lawsuits did not claim fraud. This is Qanon at its finest. The deep state is in every corner and at every level and only Trump is the purveyor of truth. When even Pence and Barr are thrown under the bus, you know there are real problems.

Do you believe that Raffensperger is lying? He, along with his GOP colleagues, answered Trump’s accusations. So, Raffensperger is either lying or an idiot. Which one?

Do you believe that Raffensperger is lying? He, along with his GOP colleagues, answered Trump’s accusations. So, Raffensperger is either lying or an idiot. Which one?

Or he may be misinformed. Or he might be wrong. Or he might be lying. Or he might be right. Or he might be partially right. There are all kinds of options.

Here’s an interesting study on the possibility of fraud in GA: https://www.scribd.com/document/489557145/SSRN-id3756988

Or he may be misinformed. Or he might be wrong. Or he might be lying. Or he might be right. Or he might be partially right. There are all kinds of options.

I honestly do not know the answer and I feel it would not be fair for me to speculate. I have appreciated the input of the US senators tonight. Good points were made by people on both sides of the debate and the debate is a reminder that we get to elect people who are there to voice the concerns of the people who elected them. I will admit that I am concerned about those who tell us that we should be quiet and not even share our concerns.

The mob action at the capitol yesterday was shameful and inexcusable. I see no way to justify it.

What concerns me is that the same news outlets that are most strongly condemning this activity, are the same ones that ignored, and in some cases encouraged activity by BLM and Antifa mobs in cities across America. Is this only wrong when it happens in the Halls of Congress, but not on the streets of DC? Democratic lawmakers are incensed by the threats to their well being, yet seem to have little concern for the equally serious threats to citizens of American cities. Nobody in Congress suffered financially from this, but many lost their livelihoods by similar actions in big cities. It would be heartening to see some measure of equal treatment to these similarly illegal acts.

At our prayer meeting yesterday evening, we had a discussion about this madness as we studied 1 Peter 2:11-17 One lady passionately rehashed all the falsehoods with which we’re familiar. She said, “when people don’t listen to you, at a certain point you feel SUCH RAGE!” She said this in the context of tacit approval of the events at the U.S. Capitol.

I briefly offered some polite rejoinders to the lies she believed, then said this: “That’s really beside the point. We have to consider what God says about this. The Apostle Peter doesn’t care about anything you just said. The Bible says what it says. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t care about your feelings, in a cruel way. It just means you still have to do what God says in this passage. God says that, in accordance with the political system we have in this country, we owe Joe Biden our political allegiance.”

Tyler, I do not know for certain if the lady was believing lies, but aside from that, you gave her sound advice and your advice is just as applicable if what she was saying were true (I point this out because you do not have to agree on the election for you to teach her about scripture. IE we do not have to agree about the election, but we do have to obey God). The I Peter passage is one that we need to be quoting a lot in this current environment. Thank you.

Let me also encourage us to be willing to disagree about the election without judging or despising one another. The election is an opinion matter, not an issue of Biblical dogma. No doubt there are strong opinions, but it should not be an issue to divide over. How we act in response to those strong opinions is something to divide over however.

For example, I had a friend that I found out went to the rally in DC. I did not even know he went until he was on his way there. I had talked to him a few days earlier and politics never even came up. He went there for a peaceful rally. I didn’t think it was a good idea, but his going was not in itself sinful and I will not call him out for it. He left when people started to go into the capital. That was not what he was there for.

I kind of learned my lesson about that sort of thing last year. In Sioux Falls there was a rally protesting the George Floyd death. This was just as the riots were getting going. One of the speakers was the son in law of a friend of ours (he is a black law enforcement officer). Our friend is also black and what happened to George Floyd really shook them up. I decided to go partly because I wanted our friend to know we cared about her and her family. I have to admit I also went because I was a bit curious about it. The rally was held at a park with speakers and then there was a peaceful march to the courthouse steps where more speeches were made and then another walk to a parking lot with the final speeches. They had all the proper permits and the support of law enforcement. The Sioux Falls police and the peaceful protesters were smiling at each other and encouraging one another.

Then during the final speech we noticed some people in the crowd shouting obsenities and soon part of the crowd split off from the main group while the speeches were still going on. This split off crowd then began to march out of the permit area and marched all over town- eventually making it to the mall on the opposite side of town. There were others who had driven to the mall that were there waiting for them. Property was vandalized and items were stolen. This happened hours after the speeches and the peaceful rally, and most of the people who listened to the speeches went home after the speeches (so did we), yet many people connected the two.

We had friends that were very upset with us for having gone to the original rally. Even though that rally was completely peaceful the later events tainted it. Something very similar happened yesterday in DC. The large group that listened to the president’s speech did not destroy property or break things. A few radicals split off and tainted the whole event.

Regardless both events had the appearance of evil even though many of the participants had no intention for that to be the case. The point I am making is that I will show grace to my friend that went to DC just as I hope others show grace towards me for going to Sioux Falls.

[TylerR]

God says that, in accordance with the political system we have in this country, we owe Joe Biden our political allegiance.”

Actually, we must submit to any lawful government, including Joe Biden, at least to the extent he is acting within the law. In any communications with anyone, I would accord the office the proper deference, as I would when speaking directly to the president. However, our system also allows us to speak out against his policies and positions, and oppose them, even as we must submit to any lawful authority. He’ll be my president, and I will submit to legal authority, but my “allegiance” won’t belong to him any more than it did to our current president. To the extent I can give any “allegiance” in this country that is not idolatrous, it will be to the nation, and to the rule of law itself (which in our country IS the king), not the man currently leading it.

In fact giving the new president himself my allegiance would not really be any different than the allegiance some people are claiming here that Christians are giving to Trump the man, rather than to the nation.

It was not until the House and Senate received and confirmed the Electoral College vote that Biden became the President Elect and that we “owe him” any loyalty.

Who is an SI Trumper? No one that I’ve read blindly follows Trump.

And you can’t put a senator in prison for allowed legal challenges to an election.

Contrasts

Trump to capital rioters, ‘You will pay.’ Kamala Harris to BLM and Antifa rioters- I will pay your bail.