What do you wish you had known?
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O.K. Guys! I am looking for questions that you wish you would have asked or things you wish you would have known before you took a Pastorate. Also, for you guys not in the pastorate what are the things you wish you would have known about your pastor before he came. Please be as specific as you can without divulging sensitive information. Thanks!
At my last position I found out too late that the pastor was very involved with psychology. This put a big damper on things when it came time to counsel families. Had I known that I would not have moved my family 700 miles to work at that church.
I’ll take a crack.
Before taking a particular assistant pastoral position, I wish I had investigated how former staff were treated. I should’ve done my homework and contacted a variety of former staff members, asked why they left…how their leaving was handled…what their view of the church/pastor/leadership was, etc.
Before assuming a couple different pastorates, I perhaps should’ve delved more deeply into why the church was in decline. More importantly, I should not have had the underlying assumption that my coming would reverse it!! :~
Before taking a particular assistant pastoral position, I wish I had investigated how former staff were treated. I should’ve done my homework and contacted a variety of former staff members, asked why they left…how their leaving was handled…what their view of the church/pastor/leadership was, etc.
Before assuming a couple different pastorates, I perhaps should’ve delved more deeply into why the church was in decline. More importantly, I should not have had the underlying assumption that my coming would reverse it!! :~
Since I’m in my first pastorate, and nine years along with no big surprises, it’s hard to think of anything I’d have done differently in the “questions to ask” department.
But I can toss one in from back in my Sunday School superintendent days. During seminary, served in a variety of roles at a couple of churches. Became SSS at one. I think I was less effective in that role than any I’ve had and in retrospect it would be because I was not clear at all on a) what my overall mission was and b) how decisions were supposed to be made.
If I remember right, I was appointed to the job and accepted it… should have asked for some specifics on nuts and bolts stuff like What am I in charge of? What decisions need to be made collectively and with whom do I make them? How often should I report and what do you want to know? Etc. The result of not being clear on these things was that I was never sure where it was proper to assert myself and where it wasn’t.. and did almost no asserting at all. Poor leadership.
But there’s no way I’d have had the sense to ask these things back then… I probably only know now because I didn’t then and the experience taught me!
But I can toss one in from back in my Sunday School superintendent days. During seminary, served in a variety of roles at a couple of churches. Became SSS at one. I think I was less effective in that role than any I’ve had and in retrospect it would be because I was not clear at all on a) what my overall mission was and b) how decisions were supposed to be made.
If I remember right, I was appointed to the job and accepted it… should have asked for some specifics on nuts and bolts stuff like What am I in charge of? What decisions need to be made collectively and with whom do I make them? How often should I report and what do you want to know? Etc. The result of not being clear on these things was that I was never sure where it was proper to assert myself and where it wasn’t.. and did almost no asserting at all. Poor leadership.
But there’s no way I’d have had the sense to ask these things back then… I probably only know now because I didn’t then and the experience taught me!
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Feel free to add in the unexpected blessings that God has given you while in ministry too. Things that surprised you in a good way, if you will.
Ask questions. Leave nothing un-communicated. I took a church once that was very legalistic about standards. I also didn’t know that they were a church split. They told me they had a group that wanted to start a church. It was a tough couple of years. I left on good terms and have been asked to come back. When I came to my present position I was less eager about getting voted in than I was about stating my positions. Having everything as clear from day one as possible is vital. Of course this principle is for every human relationship. Talk about things. Don’t let someone wonder where you are on a subject. It is such a freeing way to live.
BTW with that approach I’ve been at this present church 23 years with few serious problems.
BTW with that approach I’ve been at this present church 23 years with few serious problems.
I asked all the right questions and had the low-down on the church because I had a friend who had grown up in the church and had recently left it. Even with all that information, it was a bear — but I knew what I was getting into.
Good questions include:
1. What do you expect from the pastor’s wife?
2. How often do you expect me to visit people in the hospital?
3. What is your view of the role of women in teaching adult Sunday School, preaching, etc.
4. When weeks are insanely busy, what do you want me to prioritize and what can wait?
A word of caution. I have never pastored a country church, but most of my pastor friends have or do. Country people have a reputation for telling you what you want to hear, and saying “peace” when there is not peace. This is not limited to the country, but is more common there. This ethic started centuries ago, because you had to depend upon your neighbor in an emergency, so you never said anything to upset him (thus you withheld truth). So double-check everything and don’t necessarily believe what you hear. They may say one thing at the board meeting and another in the parking lot. Sort of a passive-aggressive thing.
So if the church has gone through pastors, BE SURE to contact the predecessors and hear their side of the story. The church’s side may immediately win you over to their interpretation.
Proverbs 18:17 reads, “The first to plead his case seems right,Until another comes and examines him.”
Good questions include:
1. What do you expect from the pastor’s wife?
2. How often do you expect me to visit people in the hospital?
3. What is your view of the role of women in teaching adult Sunday School, preaching, etc.
4. When weeks are insanely busy, what do you want me to prioritize and what can wait?
A word of caution. I have never pastored a country church, but most of my pastor friends have or do. Country people have a reputation for telling you what you want to hear, and saying “peace” when there is not peace. This is not limited to the country, but is more common there. This ethic started centuries ago, because you had to depend upon your neighbor in an emergency, so you never said anything to upset him (thus you withheld truth). So double-check everything and don’t necessarily believe what you hear. They may say one thing at the board meeting and another in the parking lot. Sort of a passive-aggressive thing.
So if the church has gone through pastors, BE SURE to contact the predecessors and hear their side of the story. The church’s side may immediately win you over to their interpretation.
Proverbs 18:17 reads, “The first to plead his case seems right,Until another comes and examines him.”
"The Midrash Detective"
Here’s a good schedule…..It’s the one I use. I had to discover it in route. It’s not the only “good” approach, but it’s the one that works for me:
Sunday - Shepherd people before, during and after the service. As often as possible minister to believers over lunch after the AM or PM service. Try to preach only once each Sunday. This gives you maximum attention to do one sermon well. If you have to do a SS lesson or two sermons….make it a priority to build other leaders to the place you can give them at least a SS lesson. What’s even better is to see “elders” added to the pastoral team……just like the early NT church, that way they can share the preaching load.
Monday - Take the day for serious prayer, significant follow-up from the day before and planning (immediate, short term, mid-range and long range). Set up elders meetings and visits for the rest of the week. communicate…..communicate….communicate: Phone, email, notes, letters, etc……..
Tuesday - Study (all day)
Wednesday - Early morning Elders meeting (2 - 3 hours), misc stuff that comes up. In the afternoon if time alows work on a private project (For me that’s working on my book dealing with Decision-Making and the Church). Last year this time was dedicated to the reading and study of the Puritans.
Thursday - People work day: Evangelism, Discipleship, Visiting, Hospitals, Counseling, Peace-making, etc…….
(This is my “work-week” - This is not to say that I will not do a visit on Monday or Tuesday, etc…..this is the pattern I aim for, but I’m flexible. You have to be flexible in ministry guys!)
Friday - Saturday (As much as possible take these days off….most Saturday’s I have 2 or 3 hours of ministry)
I try to keep my ministry work below 50 hours. After 50 hours, I try to turn the lights off and go home. Obviously we are “on call” for emergencies, weddings, funerals, middle-of-the night ER visits, etc…….The congregation I serve is flexible. They understand if I have a 60 hour week, I will take some time off later for sake of the family. Remember, we cannot sacrifice our family our our marriage for same of ministry. “Know Marriage…..Know Ministry…….No Marriage…..No Ministry!
Straight Ahead!
jt
Sunday - Shepherd people before, during and after the service. As often as possible minister to believers over lunch after the AM or PM service. Try to preach only once each Sunday. This gives you maximum attention to do one sermon well. If you have to do a SS lesson or two sermons….make it a priority to build other leaders to the place you can give them at least a SS lesson. What’s even better is to see “elders” added to the pastoral team……just like the early NT church, that way they can share the preaching load.
Monday - Take the day for serious prayer, significant follow-up from the day before and planning (immediate, short term, mid-range and long range). Set up elders meetings and visits for the rest of the week. communicate…..communicate….communicate: Phone, email, notes, letters, etc……..
Tuesday - Study (all day)
Wednesday - Early morning Elders meeting (2 - 3 hours), misc stuff that comes up. In the afternoon if time alows work on a private project (For me that’s working on my book dealing with Decision-Making and the Church). Last year this time was dedicated to the reading and study of the Puritans.
Thursday - People work day: Evangelism, Discipleship, Visiting, Hospitals, Counseling, Peace-making, etc…….
(This is my “work-week” - This is not to say that I will not do a visit on Monday or Tuesday, etc…..this is the pattern I aim for, but I’m flexible. You have to be flexible in ministry guys!)
Friday - Saturday (As much as possible take these days off….most Saturday’s I have 2 or 3 hours of ministry)
I try to keep my ministry work below 50 hours. After 50 hours, I try to turn the lights off and go home. Obviously we are “on call” for emergencies, weddings, funerals, middle-of-the night ER visits, etc…….The congregation I serve is flexible. They understand if I have a 60 hour week, I will take some time off later for sake of the family. Remember, we cannot sacrifice our family our our marriage for same of ministry. “Know Marriage…..Know Ministry…….No Marriage…..No Ministry!
Straight Ahead!
jt
Dr. Joel Tetreau serves as Senior Pastor, Southeast Valley Bible Church (sevbc.org); Regional Coordinator for IBL West (iblministry.com), Board Member & friend for several different ministries;
Joel,
Other than having nothing to do with the OP, great post! :P
Other than having nothing to do with the OP, great post! :P
Father of three, husband of one, servant of the Lord Jesus Christ. I blog at mattolmstead.com.
What’s OP?
jt
jt
Dr. Joel Tetreau serves as Senior Pastor, Southeast Valley Bible Church (sevbc.org); Regional Coordinator for IBL West (iblministry.com), Board Member & friend for several different ministries;
[Joel Tetreau] What’s OP?OP= original post
jt
Matthew,
I would object that my post had nothing to do with the OP. I don’t think prior to ministry anyone ever sat down with me and suggested a pastoral ministry “work week” schedule. It relates “big time” IMO.
Straight Ahead!
jt
I would object that my post had nothing to do with the OP. I don’t think prior to ministry anyone ever sat down with me and suggested a pastoral ministry “work week” schedule. It relates “big time” IMO.
Straight Ahead!
jt
Dr. Joel Tetreau serves as Senior Pastor, Southeast Valley Bible Church (sevbc.org); Regional Coordinator for IBL West (iblministry.com), Board Member & friend for several different ministries;
I agree that it has a lot to do with the ministry. I thought it was very a practical thing that most of us don’t think about before we are in ministry.
I was involved to varying degrees in 2 churches that seem to be opposites - large vs. small, high vs. low profile, beautiful facilities vs. borrowed facilities - but which in reality are the same. I have wished many times that I had known beforehand what the pastors’ priorities and work ethic were like.
In the former, the pastor seems to think of himself as indispensable to God’s work. He is a workaholic and expects everyone around him to sacrifice family and everything else on the alter of so-called “ministry” while he trollops all over the globe in what amounts to non-pastoral pursuits although he soothes his conscience by claiming they are God’s works. By his own admission, he only studies 2 days per week IF he plans to preach 3 times. If a member of his staff or a special speaker will take one or more services, less study is needed. His church looks forward to other speakers who actually dig into Scripture to feed them but all-in-all they take pride that their pastor is so well-known and “respected” around the country (so they think).
In the latter, the pastor is lazy and unwilling to do the work needed to feed the sheep although he is never at a loss for stories of thing he did with his family during what, for his parishioners, was a work week. This man has never had anything resembling a real job even as a college and seminary student. He’s never had to show up anywhere on time and spend a day fulfilling an employer’s expectations. He’s a free spirit that considers himself to be studying or at least meditating as he wanders from one quaint locale to another - coffee shops, antiques, etc. Consequently, he doesn’t feed the sheep, just offers light devotionals. Sadly, many of his sheep think that they are too dumb to understand him, when in reality, he just doesn’t complete his thoughts or say anything with meaning.
While on the one hand, these 2 men are opposites, on the other they are identical. When each was confronted about their lack of focus on actually shepherding the sheep, their reactions were to go into self-preservation mode and attack those who confronted them. Each resorted to publicly slandering those who actually sought the pastors’ and the churches’ good in confronting them. And out of fear that secret things would become public, each caused something of a church split, the former much greater than the latter, in shifting the focus from themselves to their confronters as workers of iniquity.
I’m not sure what one can do to foresee these things when you don’t know the pastor in advance, but in my current church, knowing beforehand that my pastor is a man that places a priority on studying and preaching and isn’t distracted by all the other church activities was a great comfort to me and it has proved to be to the great benefit of my family.
In the former, the pastor seems to think of himself as indispensable to God’s work. He is a workaholic and expects everyone around him to sacrifice family and everything else on the alter of so-called “ministry” while he trollops all over the globe in what amounts to non-pastoral pursuits although he soothes his conscience by claiming they are God’s works. By his own admission, he only studies 2 days per week IF he plans to preach 3 times. If a member of his staff or a special speaker will take one or more services, less study is needed. His church looks forward to other speakers who actually dig into Scripture to feed them but all-in-all they take pride that their pastor is so well-known and “respected” around the country (so they think).
In the latter, the pastor is lazy and unwilling to do the work needed to feed the sheep although he is never at a loss for stories of thing he did with his family during what, for his parishioners, was a work week. This man has never had anything resembling a real job even as a college and seminary student. He’s never had to show up anywhere on time and spend a day fulfilling an employer’s expectations. He’s a free spirit that considers himself to be studying or at least meditating as he wanders from one quaint locale to another - coffee shops, antiques, etc. Consequently, he doesn’t feed the sheep, just offers light devotionals. Sadly, many of his sheep think that they are too dumb to understand him, when in reality, he just doesn’t complete his thoughts or say anything with meaning.
While on the one hand, these 2 men are opposites, on the other they are identical. When each was confronted about their lack of focus on actually shepherding the sheep, their reactions were to go into self-preservation mode and attack those who confronted them. Each resorted to publicly slandering those who actually sought the pastors’ and the churches’ good in confronting them. And out of fear that secret things would become public, each caused something of a church split, the former much greater than the latter, in shifting the focus from themselves to their confronters as workers of iniquity.
I’m not sure what one can do to foresee these things when you don’t know the pastor in advance, but in my current church, knowing beforehand that my pastor is a man that places a priority on studying and preaching and isn’t distracted by all the other church activities was a great comfort to me and it has proved to be to the great benefit of my family.
Dennis The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him. ~ Proverbs 18:17
Dennis,
I understand where you are coming from. I recently had to leave a church because of a Pastor that fits the mold of the men you described. It is a great thing to know that there are men who truly love God’s people and more importantly God Himself.
Press on!
I understand where you are coming from. I recently had to leave a church because of a Pastor that fits the mold of the men you described. It is a great thing to know that there are men who truly love God’s people and more importantly God Himself.
Press on!
What do you do with someone who likes to read and study the Bible, and has a good reputation, and a desire to serve God, but(realistically speaking) just doesn’t have the ability to teach or take charge? Where do you put someone like that? In what function can he best serve? I know a few men like this. These are Godly men, intelligent, well-meaning, but because they are awkward in public speaking situations, have found it difficult to find their role in the Church.
I don’t really have a good answer for that one yet… at least not a “solution.” But when you boil it down, leadership is just influence. The form of influence depends on the role. So I would think these guys can (and almost automatically will) influence others in the body in ways that don’t involve pulpit work.
In some ways, the way you’ve described them reminds me of Acts 6:3-5 etc.
In some ways, the way you’ve described them reminds me of Acts 6:3-5 etc.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Aaron, thank you for your good response. I had not thought about that. It’s easy to forget that any position in the Church- whether it be Preacher, Evangelist, Teacher, Deacon, Usher, Etc.- requires that a man be Godly, filled with the Holy Spirit, and have a good reputation. And often times it is better to have men who can lead by example, than to have men who just like to ‘talk the talk’.
Discussion