The campus and assets of Northland International University gifted to Southern Seminary

[Joel Tetreau]

I wonder - could we all say that Northland becoming a school in the conservative wing of the Southern Baptist Convention - does the Sovereignty of God cover this sort of thing? Is Northland still part of God’s kingdom Work? (or for you who need this - part of his Future Kingdom Work…..Now?) Is Northland now no longer committed to the gospel? I wonder if God is as disappointed when a church or a para-church ministry leaves one orb of fellowship for a different wing in the Universal church? I actually don’t wonder. I’m very sure God is not as nearly upset as some of you brothers and sisters are. I would encourage you to trust in the sovereignty of God. I am most convinced these things happened ultimately because God, before the foundation of the cosmos, willed Northland to become Southern Baptist. This is part of what we call a God-centered theology. What is surprising is that some of you who are singing the blue’s loudest - I’ve actually heard teach and preach a very God-centered theology - yet I don’t hear that confidence in your words just now. You sound almost…….Arminian! That’s rather surprising knowing where some of you studied.

As always……Straight Ahead!

jt

This response will be quick - mostly because I think we’ve said everything we’re saying a dozen times or more - just in different ways. So, I agree God’s sovereignty doesn’t shove out of the room man’s responsibility. As I’ve already noted, I’m just not convinced that evil was intended here. All the time churches and para-church ministries morph. Some close - like Pills and Calvary Seminary. They had great runs - great ministries - but in God’s timing they closed their doors. Some ministries merge with other ministries. By God’s design. Some of you do not take a reformed view of God’s providential will. I do - I’m convinced because of the Biblical theology that teaches it. At it’s core Northland was a combination of Type A, B and C fundamentalists. The age of the coalition died. Their was an internal fight for the philosophical make-up of the institution. Some leaders stayed, some left. The leaders that stayed have determined that they will pitch their tent amongst brethren that they philosophically have most in common with, in this case, Militant Type C’s. Even if I had disagreements with certain sub-views of a movement, if a congregation or a ministry became part of a Bible-believing and historically fundamental group that was orthodox, evangelistic and even militant - It is a major stretch to see this as anything other than God working His will in the affairs of ministry. Even if certain leaders failed here and there (which always happens in any ministry episode where a ministry is reviewing it’s philosophical core and mission) God is powerful enough to take the mistakes of men and to work good out of that. I simply cannot understand why you men can’t see that - even in a case like Northland. I think some of you actually believe that the center of God’s work and His Kingdom is a certain sub-set of North American Fundamentalism. You know - movements die. However God’s Kingdom work and church work continues. So what happens if the fundamentalism that some of us grew up in actually dies in the next decade or two? Does that mean God’s work is over? Come on guys. Northland (while attached to Southern) while no longer is in your denomination, no doubt is still in God’s denomination! Northland is still a God honoring ministry committed to Christ, the Gospel and His Church.

Last thought - I think there are two major dissenters on this thread. The first group don’t necessarily have a “beef” with the intents of the Southern and the conservative wing of the SBC - you might not be a part of it, some of you could not in good conscience do what Northland has done. The issue is not so much what was done but how it was done. OK - look I understand that position and can sympathize, especially those leaders and ministries that have been directly tied to Northland. The second group are those who are ticked off just because you can’t see God being a part of any movement other than yours. Many of you in this second group have this propensity towards “drama” - It’s like there was some conspiracy that Matt behind closed doors must have come up with - no doubt smoking a cigar - Like he individually planed and executed the downfall and purposeful take-over of NIU by the Southern Baptists. Wow - I don’t even know how to respond to you guys in the second group, so I won’t say anything.

For those of you in the first group, I’ll say it again - God is powerful enough to take the imperfect motives and actions of men (even in the ebb and flow of ministry) and turn them into profit for God’s kingdom. I did come up with something to say to the second group - Hey you guys still have three or four institutions you can support. Rejoice! Some denominations only have one institution. Keep Smilen you guys…….

Straight Ahead!

jt

Joel,

Most of us realize that Biblical Baptist Fundamentalism is not the only venue for the propagation of historic Christianity. If NIU had to leave its roots, then being taken over by Southern isn’t a horrible end. I know some of their leaders and professors. My disappointment has to do with taking a school from an independent, dispensational, cessationist, separatist position to something much broader and to do so via deception. I hold Matt mostly responsible for this. Dan, on the other hand, has been upfront from the beginning. I have known Matt since college. We served on NBT the same year, graduated at the same time from BJU, served on the GFA, FBFI, and BJU boards together, had meals together, played golf together, have been in his home, etc. Our roots are similar. If he wanted to take NIU in this direction, he should have stated his intentions clearly from the beginning, including the interview process. What’s done is done. We will move on.

[Mike Harding]

Joel,

Most of us realize that Biblical Baptist Fundamentalism is not the only venue for the propagation of historic Christianity. If NIU had to leave its roots, then being taken over by Southern isn’t a horrible end. I know some of their leaders and professors. My disappointment has to do with taking a school from an independent, dispensational, cessationist, separatist position to something much broader and to do so via deception. I hold Matt mostly responsible for this. Dan, on the other hand, has been upfront from the beginning. I have known Matt since college. We served on NBT the same year, graduated at the same time from BJU, served on the GFA, FBFI, and BJU boards together, had meals together, played golf together, have been in his home, etc. Our roots are similar. If he wanted to take NIU in this direction, he should have stated his intentions clearly from the beginning, including the interview process. What’s done is done. We will move on.

Joel, I agree with this. I don’t think Matt intentionally meant to do harm. I don’t think he was intentionally malicious. Further, I don’t recall anyone on this thread saying they didn’t think the Lord could work through the SBTS and NIU. Yes, I do believe the Lord does advance His kingdom through SBTS and NIU.

But, I do the leadership was reckless, negligent, irresponsible, and frankly incompetent. I think most reasonable people on both sides of this issue would have to agree to that - to some degree. As I’ve said before - because yes, it does matter - the way Dr. O. and NIU’s historical base were treated was horrible. If there is anything that qualifies as Dr. O’s life work, it would be NIU. Both he and NIU’s historical constituency - the very people that NIU, the Patz’, and Olson courted for decades to build NIU were basically cast aside in short order. A former NIU VP told me that Dr. O was upset because he wasn’t being told what was really going on. Things were hidden from him. That is sad!

Mohler’s recent comments regarding homosexuals adds another interesting twist to this story.

Joel, not to pick a fight with you, but the way you & many others talk about this situation has almost a nonchalant, “Shucks! Easy come, easy go! That’s the way the cookie crumbles.” kind of attitude. Yes, movements and ministries come and go. It is one thing if the market dries up or a new technology makes what you were selling obsolete. It is another when the organization fails because of incompetent leadership (EBM for example).

I’m satisfied that I’ve said everything I needed to say. My attitude toward the rest of you is the same. As long as you are a friend of Christ, the Gospel, the True Church of Jesus, God’s Word, Servant Leadership and Responsible Discipleship - I am your friend - no matter how close or not close you are to Northland.

Straight Ahead!

jt

[mmartin]

If there is anything that qualifies as Dr. O’s life work, it would be NIU.

Not being an alumnus or even in the family of one, I don’t really have a dog in this fight, but it seems to me that the quoted sentence is part of the problem in the way we see events. Even not knowing Dr. O., it seems to me that if anything should be seen as Dr. O’s life work, it would be the *students* that graduated from NIU during his tenure, not NIU itself. All earthly ministries will eventually fade and be gone. Those ministries should not be our legacy, but instead it should be the people whose lives were saved and otherwise influenced by those ministries. Yes, we might see it as sad that another ministry we knew is gone or changed form, even to something we don’t recognize, but those ministries themselves (in contrast to living a life of ministry and service) are never our legacy. The way I see it, Dr. O’s legacy goes on in the lives that were changed for eternity, and that can’t be taken away.

Let’s certainly discuss things that went wrong, and how to do the right thing to keep a ministry going where we can (knowing it is ultimately in God’s hands), but let us also not see a Christian’s life work as being bound to an institution.

As in Carl McIntire’s The Christian Admiral Hotel

Off topic? Not really … speaks to how these things come and go.

[Ben there by he way!]