The campus and assets of Northland International University gifted to Southern Seminary
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Obviously the real problem is Big Daddy Weave. Whoever picked him wasn’t very careful. After all, he only has two really good songs. :)
[Greg Linscott] Go for what? For one, drinking is prohibited in the SBC. Mohler can’t change that. And second, don’t equate your conservatism to Mohler’s. Al’s would be “I choose to be culturally conservative but don’t see it as the only biblical way of living. I’ll give others grace as they practice their liberty.” Is that your position, Mike? I doubt it is.
Now wait a minute, iK. I think you’re being a bit harsh toward Harding. How exactly do you know that Mike wouldn’t demonstrate grace like Mohler would? What does that look like- grace, I mean? Just a few years ago, could you have pictured a leading FBFI man publicly acknowledging that he was a personal friend of a leading SBC seminary president? Just because Mike has a conservative position when it comes to some of these things doesn’t mean that he cannot have conversations with those he disagrees, or that he considers their salvation suspect if they don’t agree with his conclusion.
Now, perhaps Mike can clarify… but until then, I think you’ve made some assumptions that may not be true.
My apologies. Well, then, let me ask: Mike, is drinking alcohol a sin?
Ok, this thread is going to derail if not already.
Ecclesia semper reformanda est
The rules at all of our Christian schools seem to be changing in various ways.
For example, one Christian school now permits its students to freely do many things today that would have been cause for severe discipline just a few years ago.
If it was wrong then, why is it right now?
If it was right then, why is it wrong now?
Are movies, dress, and music battleground issues?
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
This is a video by Mohler and Daniel Patz explaining the Northland/Southern vision. It sounds like a marketing video for a fundamentalist/SBC alliance.
http://vimeo.com/109515589
[Shaynus]Interesting in video. Mohler claims that joining the two institutions makes sense since they are already serving the same churches and constituents. Somehow, I don’t think many Southern Baptists were attending NBBC/NIU before the merger, and I think this has been the heart of this discussion. NIU and the Patz family seem to be disassociating themselves with the primary constituency of the past 40 or more years, just wiping the slate clean and rewriting the history book on Northland. I think this is another example of what has been mentioned frequently, that the heart burn many are having or this has more to do with the how than the what of the events.This is a video by Mohler and Daniel Patz explaining the Northland/Southern vision. It sounds like a marketing video for a fundamentalist/SBC alliance.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
A quick search of the SBC website indicates the nearest SBC church to Northland is in Iron Mountain. That’s too far for a practical, weekly relationship with students from NIU. I wonder what they will require for church attendance among students who attend under the new regime?
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
Chip, it depends on how you view what constitutes the “same constituency.” I’m sure Mohler sees fundamentalists on his (same) gospel-defending and gospel-promoting team much more than fundamentalists would see he is on their team.
Me and Mine haven’t been teamed up with the SBC since the 1840s. Most of the time, we’ve been in the same conference. But, we’ve been Stanford to their UC Berkley.
[Shaynus]Chip, it depends on how you view what constitutes the “same constituency.” I’m sure Mohler sees fundamentalists on his (same) gospel-defending and gospel-promoting team much more than fundamentalists would see he is on their team.
Hoping to shed more light than heat..
[Rob Fall]Me and Mine haven’t been teamed up with the SBC since the 1840s. Most of the time, we’ve been in the same conference. But, we’ve been Stanford to their UC Berkley.
Shaynus wrote:
Chip, it depends on how you view what constitutes the “same constituency.” I’m sure Mohler sees fundamentalists on his (same) gospel-defending and gospel-promoting team much more than fundamentalists would see he is on their team.
Your football Jedi mind tricks are of no use here.
I wonder what they will require for church attendance among students who attend under the new regime?
Maybe they’ll allow these young adults to choose for themselves.
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
[Ron Bean]Why? They’re not adults. They can’t vote, and they’re certainly not working hard to pay for their own education—with no assistance, in many cases.I wonder what they will require for church attendance among students who attend under the new regime?
Maybe they’ll allow these young adults to choose for themselves.
In all seriousness, I recall this being my greatest frustration with my time at Northland. There were two types of students: 1) those that wanted to be there and were often working very, very hard to stay and train for future ministry, and 2) those whose parents made them go because they were worried about their spiritual state—sort of a last-ditch effort to change their lives.
The old rules and system (of Northland and most other fundamentalist institutions) always struck me as tailored to the latter rather than the former.
[iKuyper]My apologies. Well, then, let me ask: Mike, is drinking alcohol a sin?
Ok, this thread is going to derail if not already.
Does Albert Mohler consider paedobaptism instead of credobaptism to be a sin? Doesn’t stop him from interaction with people like Ligon Duncan.
We know that Mark Dever has said for a church to have specific eschatology in its doctrinal statement is a sin. He has interaction with many different sinners living openly and unrepentantly, then…
If Mike Harding says yes, what does that prove, exactly?
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
[Greg Linscott]iKuyper wrote:
My apologies. Well, then, let me ask: Mike, is drinking alcohol a sin?
Ok, this thread is going to derail if not already.
Does Albert Mohler consider paedobaptism instead of credobaptism to be a sin? Doesn’t stop him from interaction with people like Ligon Duncan.
We know that Mark Dever has said for a church to have specific eschatology in its doctrinal statement is a sin. He has interaction with many different sinners living openly and unrepentantly, then…
If Mike Harding says yes, what does that prove, exactly?
Well, of course. Mohler and Dever won’t separate over those issues because they’re not separatist fundamentalists. If Mike says “yes” that drinking alcohol is sin, then by necessity he has to separate from NIU. That’s my point. There are cultural issues that are not necessarily sin issues but preferential ones. My most basic point is that many fundamentalists make the error of making non-sin issues sin issues and separate over them! I believe that’s what many A Fundies, like Mike Harding, are pinning on NIU—that by their direction are on the way to sinful degradation (if not already). That position, if that’s what Harding holds, would be fundamentally (lol) different than the position of cultural conservatives like Mohler, Dever, other Reformed Baptists, etc….
Ecclesia semper reformanda est
I do not view the SBC as my mother denomination. I am an Historic Northern (Regular) Baptist. There were more reasons other than slavery in play for the split. No football Jedi mind tricks. Though, I was trying to be a tad humorous and trying to stay far away from the nuclear option in dealing with the SBC.
[Shaynus]Rob Fall wrote:
Me and Mine haven’t been teamed up with the SBC since the 1840s. Most of the time, we’ve been in the same conference. But, we’ve been Stanford to their UC Berkley.
Shaynus wrote:
Chip, it depends on how you view what constitutes the “same constituency.” I’m sure Mohler sees fundamentalists on his (same) gospel-defending and gospel-promoting team much more than fundamentalists would see he is on their team.
Your football Jedi mind tricks are of no use here.
Hoping to shed more light than heat..
[Shaynus]This is a video by Mohler and Daniel Patz explaining the Northland/Southern vision. It sounds like a marketing video for a fundamentalist/SBC alliance.
Interesting in this video Mr. Mohler already mentions the need for people to give money.
iKuyper, NIU now being under the SBTS/Boyce umbrella is no guarantee. Not at all! Either it will work financially or it won’t. If it doesn’t work financially the benefit to funding NIU must outweigh the financial loss.
In a broad sense ultimately nothing in ministry at the human level happens without money. Unless the financial people at SBTS recieved their degrees from the Enron School of Business Management, if things aren’t working out I would think they would shut operations down instead of throwing good money after bad.
It is one thing to start small when your program and facilities are small and the entire program, staff, & facilities can grow together. In NIU’s case the infrastructure is there that at one time handled 600-700 students. All of those buildings need to be maintained, office support staff need to be there, etc. Right off the bat SBTS will have a fair financial responsibility on its hands. I would expect they would’ve already crunched numbers to have an idea of what it will take financially and what kind of program(s) they may offer. They may be able to use their staff at Boyce to do some of the record keeping without having permanent people in place at NIU. With today’s technology there is much they can do via the web. Not as good as a live person on site, but it may be an option.
It would be good for this to work out - better than all those buildings go to waste.
The jury is still out. There is still too much ambiguity about what exactly NIU is doing, what Boyce will do, what programs will be offered, etc. for people (consumers) to have the confidence needed to buy. Even for those that love what NIU is doing they would have to take a wait and see attitude because no one really knows yet how things will play out.
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