Verity Baptist Church kicked out of property due to anti-LGBT comments made by pastor following Orlando shooting
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BTW, how many have actually listened to his sermon?
[Mark_Smith]You can decide not to renew a lease for any reason. A landlord is under no obligation to re-lease to anyone.
BTW, how many have actually listened to his sermon?
I think the rules about re-leasing depend a lot on the state. Here around Rochester, a business that provided services to breast cancer survivors was suing their landlord when the lease wasn’t renewed, so what you say is at least not quite true everywhere. There are limits.
Regarding the sermon, haven’t listened to it—reliable people have detailed the important points, and a look at the church’s website indicated that the quotes were in keeping with the character of that church’s leadership. I no more need to listen to that sermon to get the character of the pastor than I need to read Mein Kampf to have a basic understanding of Hitler. It’s possible to get enough evidence without listening to the whole thing.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
sermons, and I have read LOTS of articles written about this one, and I have YET to find one that accurately reflects what he said.
Since you are supposedly a man of logic and high moral standards, can you honestly tell me the title of the article in this thread is not deceptive? It tries to convey that the landlord has thrown the church out because they are bigoted homophobes…rather than the innocuous “please leave and we aren’t renewing your lease”.
Not deceptive at all, Mark. I saw some of the comments, and Jimenez is being treated fairly—really nicely in light of his statements that he thinks it would be great if a whole lot more people got sent to Hell. Don’t let the slick speech fool you; he’s one sick puppy. I’m glad God didn’t treat MY sin like that..
And the claim they’re getting “kicked out”? Well, you’re more or less confusing the phrase “kicked out” with eviction, but only the latter is a legal term. Verdict: accurate. Is the church being kicked out because of “homophobia”? Let’s take a look at the quote:
We have many places of worship and other religious organizations in the properties we manage. Like all our tenants, their occupancy rights are protected in their leases, but we will not tolerate tenants who advocate hatred and the taking of innocent lives
Verdict: accurate. It’s not any vague “homophobia” like you claim but rather advocating killing people. Nothing innocuous about it, either; they’re walking away from a guaranteed hundred grand in rent, paying thousands to help them move, and “asking them to leave” is more or less a velvet glove over the threat of eviction.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
In Millennium, what will happen to homosexuals under Christ’s leadership? It is an opinion question, but worth asking.
Read it, Mark. We are not in the millenial kingdom. For reference, Verity “Baptist” is non-dispensational, too, so that’s not an issue for them, either.
We are called to reach sinners for Christ, not endorse their brutal murder.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Thanks for the dodge. Answer the question, as it goes to OT laws applied to society. People want to believe the gospel is “sugar and spice” with no judgment.
As for being non-dispy, they do believe in a Millennial reign however.
Are you suggesting that no non-believers will enter the Millennium? No one will survive the Tribulation that doesn’t come to faith during that time?
If Paul notes the grievous sins of the Corinthian church, how on earth can we argue that Paul would have rejoiced more at their burning in Hell?
Honestly….sorry, but Jimenez is one sick puppy from a Biblical perspective. period. Hopefully the flock there wakes up to what he’s doing to them before they fall away from faith altogether and spend a lot of time with the Orlando victims.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Observations about Mark’s Millennium question:
- Let’s be honest: don’t know … speculation
- During “Law” dispensation (or “Israel”): Is there a recorded example of a sodomite receiving capital punishment? I can’t think of one
- Paul ministered in a culture where perversion was common: He never called for it being dealt with as a capital crime
- 1 Corinthians 6:9-12 speaks to the issue: “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.”. Conclusion: The gospel was the answer & right response to the gospel changed people
As for a recorded example…Israel forgot about the Passover…you think they were following the Mosaic law that closely?
The point is, a righteous government would outlaw homosexuality, and adultery, etc. Our government used to do that? Remember?
….but it’s worth noting that most judges do not rejoice at a person being punished for his crimes—in our system, we retain enough of the memory of the Gospel that good judges urge the convicted to repent of the attitudes that got him there. Read almost any closing statement during sentencing by any judge.
No argument that homosexuality is sin, or that it leads to horrific consequences here on earth and in the world beyond. But what the “pastor” did was to suggest that being shot without trial is not only comparable to the operation of the Old Testament law (abjectly false), but moreover that odd interpretation of the Torah was applicable in the New Testament era. Again, Jimenez is one sick puppy and needs to leave the ministry and encourage his flock to find an actual Bible-believing church to attend.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Millennium answered;
For a short period of time in my youth (pre-teen) - perhaps for several months - I would steal candy bars from the local 5 & 10¢ store ( S. S. Kresge). When I stole .. .I was very careful .. .only when the clerks were not watching! Although I wasn’t saved, I fell under conviction that what I was doing was very wrong .. .yes sinful! I confessed my sin and forsook stealing.
Sinners in the millennium will be closely watched - the Lord will be ruling from David’s throne. There will be a strong motivation to eschew bad behavior.
What will be “the law” during the Millennium?
- Pre-law, sodomy was a “very grievous” sin ( Genesis 18:20)
- Under the law, sodomy was regarded as “abomination” (Leviticus 18:22)
- The law penalty for it (along with a lot of other sins (Leviticus 20) was “death” (Leviticus 20:13)
- And obviously in the NT sodomy is sinful
Jesus dealt with the woman “taken in adultery, in the very act” (John 8:4) thusly:
- Note that while adultery was a capital crime (Leviticus 20:10)
- Jesus told her to “go and sin no more” (John 8:11)
Conclusion:
- Jesus will deal with sin with justice and mercy
- I hypothesize that there will be very little overt sin during the Millennium (just like Jimmy did not steal when the clerk was watching)
- There will be no parades of sodomites under the rainbow banner
- Sin will be internalized awaiting the rebellion at the end of the Millennium
My point was people want to think that Jesus is all mushy, and loving, and non-judgmental. He just loves and loves and loves. You know what I mean. Watch any interview on TV about Orlando and its all LOVE LOVE LOVE like some Beatles song.
But, God will bring the hammer down. People need to know that. The same God who killed thousands + in one day in Egypt will do the same today if He desires.
in Luke 13:1-3 when talking about Pilate’s massacre of the Galileans and the tower of Siloam, He didn’t say “no, they were all good and God loves them”. He said REPENT because a similar thing may happen to you!
These sins, including sodomy, are still “worthy of death”. Nothing changed.
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