SWBTS responds to sexual abuse lawsuit

A definition of firsthand knowledge (one among many similar):

“Firsthand knowledge refers to something which the witness actually saw or heard, as distinguished from something he learned from some other person or source. It is also a knowledge that is gained through firsthand observation or experience, as distinguished from a belief based on what someone else has said.”

I submit that reading reports does not count as “firsthand” knowledge, either with SWBTS, the Mueller Report, or in general. I did say that the discussion should stick to facts in evidence. Reports would be included in that, and they are valid for discussion, but they are not the same as firsthand knowledge. If you are not actually involved in the situation being discussed, then any knowledge you have is still incomplete.

But regardless of whether you agree with the definition I’ve posted or not, if the nudge I posted above isn’t sufficient to get all of you to stay away from assumptions about another’s motivation, not only will this thread be closed, but posting privileges may also be restricted. I get that we should learn from mistakes made by others that could be either costly or really bad for Christian testimony. Such “intensity” should still not result in, or even lean towards, personal attack.

Just saw this update on Jane Roe’s assailant. It turns out he was arrested for several crimes after his expulsion from SWBTS.

I also wanted to note how many of the details in this story dovetail with Jane Roe’s complaint against both Patterson and SWBTS.

There, he went on to woo and later to allegedly choke an unsuspecting girlfriend, who managed to escape and later sought help from the court.

Cole later stalked and threatened to kill her, according to allegations in a civil protective order…

Where have I heard that before?

Oh yeah, it’s in the complaint filed by Jane Roe. It’s so weird that this happened to another woman the exact same way that Roe claims it was done to her.

report to the police, not your university president.

…..universities have a very clear interest in ensuring the safety of all of their students, and Title IX buttresses this legally.

Regarding what Jay links, we will probably see a lot more of this as discovery progresses, and (again) if my reading of the compliant is even partially correct, “Roe” is sitting on a treasure trove of documents that is going to make life “very interesting” for both SWBTS and Paige Patterson. Worth noting as well is that the plaintiff has engaged a lawyer with 23 years of experience in education law—she is not playing around.

If there is not said treasure trove of evidence, and if the case falls flat on its face, I’d favor some level of discipline for the lawyer, because it’s cruel to every party involved. That said, she hasn’t survived and thrived in one of the most contentious areas of law because she’s stupid, so you know where I’m betting my nickel.

I work at a university. I am trying to imagine a woman calling the president’s secretary and saying, “I would like to schedule an appointment to meet the President.” The administrative assistant asks why. “Because I would like to report a rape.” The assistant gives the police phone number…

After reporting the rape to police, the student goes to the Title IX coordinator at the school, not the president, and files a report.

[Bert Perry]

“Roe” is sitting on a treasure trove of documents that is going to make life “very interesting” for both SWBTS and Paige Patterson. Worth noting as well is that the plaintiff has engaged a lawyer with 23 years of experience in education law—she is not playing around.

And yet the student never completed a full police report, and the accused has never been charged with anything. Yet, Patterson is the most evil scumbag on the face of the earth and the school owes Roe millions… OK.

Funny how the school is to blame for the guy’s actions, yet he is not? Weird.

Agreed. Call police! Pastor or college leader who tries to steer a complainant away from that course of action (for any reason) is a fool.

Nearly five decades of precedent with Title IX, and the university’s responsibility to protect its students.

Regarding why the student at SWBTS talked to the President instead of an underling, it’s called “because it’s a small school, and that’s how no less than Paige Patterson wanted it.” Quite frankly, if SWBTS has a lot of Title IX sexual harassment/rape cases, they ought to be questioning how they’re screening prospective students, don’t you think?

No doubt that it is better if people go to the police, but again, Mark, I’ve explained the dynamics to you several times, and you’re just not getting it. The conviction rate for sexual assault (vs. complaints made to police) nationwide is 2%, and the Fort Worth police had shown just how seriously they were taking the case by not prosecuting an open and shut case against a gentleman who had broken the law by possessing guns on a college campus.

You gonna trust your safety to that, Mark? You gonna tell your college president that if the local police don’t enforce the law, even in open and shut cases, that they have no responsibility to take action to protect their students? Seriously?

You can blame the victim here all you want, but the system you’re endorsing spoke loud and clear to her about why she would do better just to hide and not go forward.

I work at a university. I am trying to imagine a woman calling the president’s secretary and saying, “I would like to schedule an appointment to meet the President.” The administrative assistant asks why. “Because I would like to report a rape.” The assistant gives the police phone number…

If you had read the complaint, you would know that Roe did call the police, who sent two officers related to SWBTS employees (one was the brother of the SWBTS police chief and the other is the son of the police chaplain) to take the initial report and that Paige Patterson repeatedly involved himself with the case over the objections of the local police department even after being told explicitly not to.

Oh, and SWBTS was sued as well. Nobody is picking on The Red Bishop.

Re-read Jay’s link, and again, the police came and found firearms in his dorm room and car on campus, but no charges were filed for something that was against SWBTS rules and state law at the time. Open and shut case. Again, if you know that police and prosecutors won’t work with an open and shut case with physical evidence collected directly by the police, exactly why would you think you’ll be safe if you ask for them to go forward with a vastly more difficult he said/she said case?

If you want people to go forward with the police (and I do too), you’ve got to understand that if they have clear evidence that the vast majority of perps will not suffer a conviction, they’re going to take that into account. They will know they’re still in danger, and they either won’t report, or won’t go forward with charges. None of that should effect how colleges and universities respond, except perhaps to give the more forward thinking among them an idea like creating safe houses for victims/accusers to use, or some such thing.

Also, news from my alma mater: Provost Youatt has just resigned after MSU was fined a record $4.5 million and forced to submit to outside audits of their Title IX efforts because, among other things, Youatt did not respond effectively in the case of John Strampel. This follows the earlier firing/resignation of former President LouAnna Simon for her role in the Nassar and Strampel cases—and she’s now being prosecuted for lying to investigators for the same cases.

So we know from experience that even in schools with 45-50000 students, many of these things do indeed get to the top. The same thing was observed after Sandusky at Penn State, and it’s being observed at Ohio State and USC. All of these schools are 10-20x bigger than SWBTS, and reality is that they know that when a problem could cause huge legal issues, that goes to the deans/provost/President very quickly. As it should.