White evangelicals are the least likely faith group in US to get COVID vaccine: Pew

Why does this surprise anyone? Well count me in the 54%, because I got vaccinated.

….is that we really need 70% immunity for herd immunity, and only about that proportion plans on getting vaccinated. OK, you’ll get something out of the 30 million plus who got the disease, and you’ll get something from those who got it but don’t know it, but I’d kinda like to kick this one to the curb, and I’m not quite sure we’re getting there.

We may never get to herd immunity. And it may stick around. Those who get the vaccine and subsequent boosters if needed will continue to be predominately healthy and those who choose to avoid it may or may not continue to be healthy and maybe more impacted by it.

Once again, it is weird that this slides across religious lines. Not just conservative evangelicals. The more conservative and the more fundamentalist you are the more likely you are to avoid vaccines. You see it in Amish, Orthodox Jewish, Muslim, Christians….. It is interesting.

There are probably a lot of reasons that some people are not in the “definitely” or “probably” camps. For myself, I’m not in the definitely camp, since I have been waiting for some of the changes like those announced yesterday for vaccinated persons from the CDC. They way I see it, I’m not wasting my time on a vaccine for a bug that I may have already had (symptoms but no test) when the result was that all the restrictions are still in place anyway even two weeks after the 2nd shot.

I’m not at all an anti-vax person, and I don’t see any “scary” issues with the vaccine. I’ll probably get it at some point. As I posted in another thread, my interest will go up if it’s required for my job or international travel, or the restrictions on fully-vaccinated people go away. Until then, it’s just not that high on my priority list. And, of course, my category in my state for getting the vaccine is not on the list yet anyway, so even if I were in the “definitely” camp, it would probably be sometime in April or later before I’m even eligible. By then, there may be more guidance from the CDC which would make it more interesting for me to get the shot(s).

My family would get the flu vaccine in the years when we had a baby in the house. (Five children along the way.) The one year in the past when some of us probably got the flu, we had had the vaccine.

I have figured that there are people elsewhere in the US and in the world that need this vaccine more than we do. (And that we before we had our very, very mild case of it.)

World ran an article about the rich countries having prospects of getting everyone the vaccine by EOY, and the poor countries several years down the road. So much for all America’s talk about diversity and inclusion. America is too busy arguing about which demographics and professions should have first dibs.

David French may want me to love my neighbor and get vaccinated. I think I’m going to love my neighbor and send my portion to Senegal or something, if Mr. French doesn’t mind.

[M. Osborne]

David French may want me to love my neighbor and get vaccinated. I think I’m going to love my neighbor and send my portion to Senegal or something, if Mr. French doesn’t mind.

Not quite how it works. But this is a free country and people can choose to do what they want to do. My guess is that people who have had it probably won’t get it. The problem with vaccine programs is that the vast majority of the purpose of a vaccine program is for community benefits. The decision to take the vaccine is an individual decision. Trying to bridge that gap is hard for those who 1) don’t see the benefit or need of it, or 2) have concerns with the ethical or safety elements of the vaccine.

Not quite how it works.

I know…just deadpan humor.

[dgszweda]

My guess is that people who have had it probably won’t get it. The problem with vaccine programs is that the vast majority of the purpose of a vaccine program is for community benefits. The decision to take the vaccine is an individual decision. Trying to bridge that gap is hard for those who 1) don’t see the benefit or need of it, or 2) have concerns with the ethical or safety elements of the vaccine.

It’s not something that makes me want to chant “USA! USA”, but given that the key predictors of COVID death are age and metabolic syndrome (obesity, diabetes, untreated heart disease), we’ve got a great set of reasons to vaccinate our own people first—we’re one of the fattest and oldest nations of the world.

Or, rather, I did start chanting “USA! USA!”, but after a few rounds of that I was winded…..

Seriously, agreed that we may never quite achieve herd immunity, but darnit, after the last year, I’d kinda like to be able to give it a try. No? Overall, I think the key question here is whether the population as a whole knows that the primary reason one gets vaccinated is not one’s own immunity, but is rather out of interest for one’s whole community.

Maybe I’m a bit of a Pollyanna here, but I have the thought that if you explained to people that their assumption of a minor risk would protect those who were far more vulnerable, they’d be on it in the same way young men will help someone with car trouble.

[Bert Perry]

Overall, I think the key question here is whether the population as a whole knows that the primary reason one gets vaccinated is not one’s own immunity, but is rather out of interest for one’s whole community.

It was the same issue with wearing a mask. It was less about protecting yourself and much more about preventing the spread to a broader group of people. The masks are not air tight so you can breathe in the virus. But you breathe out in a straight path and the mask would catch the virus.

The problem with vaccines is that while it might be a minor risk, when it kills you it is a major risk. People know the reason.

….but unfortunately, some of the ways masks and vaccines are similar is in public health messaging which gives a clear indication that the matter is about power, not health.

With masks, we first had a statement from Fauci against them (basically lying to protect hospitals supplies), then for them, and then we had a number of governors who were requiring masks everywhere, even outside where they don’t do much good, all while continuing to send COVID patients into nursing homes and refusing to sanitize the subways and remove the bums from them.

With vaccines, we’ve had millions of doses get lost and be withheld, and there is a tremendous amount of political wrangling over who gets them and who doesn’t, even extending to doctors getting fired because they didn’t just throw away vials of vaccine, but rather put the spare vaccine into available, but officially ineligible, arms.

If you want to convince people that these public health efforts are about power, that’s exactly what you do.

[Bert Perry]

If you want to convince people that these public health efforts are about power, that’s exactly what you do.

I think you are probably giving too much credit where it probably isn’t due. Being a scientist and my wife an infectious disease microbiologist, there is more not known at the beginning of the outbreak than is known. Given the fact that you had Trump putting pressure to project a position of calm and pushing messaging within agencies as well as a lack of information and clarity really just created a big mess. If anything, I hope the government learned how not to run a health campaign and that they would make improvements, but I am doubtful. It is doubtful we could have gotten this right. It was a once in a hundred year pandemic. No one in the end was really prepared for it. But to have been really prepared for it, I don’t think we as US citizens were prepared to give up that kind of freedom. Countries where combating a disease was more culturally acceptable and countries with more authoritarian regimes were able to nip this in the bud fairly well. Countries that have efficient health systems were able to combat this better. Both areas are pretty foreign from a US perspective. If you have ever travelled to the Far East or lived in the Far East you would quickly realize that wearing a mask and social distancing is no big thing. In the US it is tantamount to a Civil War. I am not saying one way is right or wrong. But I do think it was just a mess in the US with all kinds of pressures pulling in all kinds of different directions.

…European country that bungled, in some way, their Covid response, I wonder how is that possible? After all, Trump doesn’t govern that country, and furthermore, everybody knows that European countries are the model of everything good that the USA should be following.

[G. N. Barkman]

…European country that bungled, in some way, their Covid response, I wonder how is that possible? After all, Trump doesn’t govern that country, and furthermore, everybody knows that European countries are the model of everything good that the USA should be following.

Thank you. I wonder the exact same thing. I thought it was Trump alone who did all this wrong. How could Europe ever make a mistake?

David, the way I read the data, we’re doing about average for a western, fatter country. Regarding the notion that increased central control would have helped, perhaps it would if those who wanted to do the controlling were halfway competent. Sadly that is not the case. Fauci’s come out on both sides of face masks, and neither he nor others at NIH/CDC read the riot act to governors who were sending COVID patients into nursing homes. He’s also been silent as ICE sends people diagnosed with COVID north from the border, as if we need a few hundred more people with COVID in the general population.

Also of note is that he’s not read the riot act to those who decided that all of us need to be quarantined instead of protecting the most vulnerable and isolating those with the disease, and he’s not paid much attention to the very real costs of isolation, despair, and deferred healthcare.

(and since you bring up your expertise, my source for a lot of this is a pathologist at Mayo who does a lot of work in infectious disease and immunity)

No doubt there are a lot of things we don’t know, and the low rates of infection and death reported in Asia are tantalizing hints at what might have been achieved with competent leadership, but the sad fact of the matter is that we don’t have that, and hence the correlation between the strictness of lockdowns and extent of COVID is actually somewhat positive in our country. Really, a lot of the actions of Democratic governors seem to be consistent with the notion that if they torpedo the economy, they were more likely to get rid of “Bad Orange Man.”