Barna research: A Rapid Decline in Pastoral Security

With the rapid changes for the worse in society — and the church mirroring them — many pastors are like righteous Lot with their souls vexed. What people want in their pastor and church has been affected by the downward trend. A few people want more liturgical, a few want more stimulation, the attention deficit strugglers want dynamics, the traditionalists want altar calls, the women’s libbers want women pastors/leaders, others want us to be more loving by ignoring doctrine — it is bad. These things have been for a long time, but it is intensifying. The individualistic nature of our society is nurturing a lot of unhappy campers, and the pastor has to deal with them all. Then, to boot, all the bad trends of our society affect clergy children and marriages. It is not a pretty picture. Yet, by the grace of God, His faithful servants turn a deaf ear to all this stuff and forge ahead in a God-honoring path.

Jim,

What I'm wondering is if the sentiment is different by generation. In other words, do older pastors feel differently about these things than younger pastors? The Barna article mentions "the drop is especially notable among younger pastors." That leads me to think that the sentiment and outlook are more correlated to generation (i.e. age).

If that's the case, perhaps younger pastors entered pastoral ministry with a wrong or incomplete understanding / view of pastoral ministry?

Tom Howard wrote:

If that’s the case, perhaps younger pastors entered pastoral ministry with a wrong or incomplete understanding / view of pastoral ministry?

Tom, I would say to any fellow pastors, “Didn’t we all?” Personally, I am glad I didn’t understand the pastoral ministry to the degree I do now. Don’t know if I would have braved it otherwise (hopefully so; my sense of calling — believing it to be God’s will — is what kept me going), even with the idealism of youth factored in. As a newly retired pastor, I would say this: It has always been daunting, but with the way society is changing, it is more difficult by the day. IMO, people have become more demanding and less social.

That's the thing I'm trying to get at. If you believe pastoral ministry is God's calling on your life, wouldn't you be more willing to stick around? If you go into pastoral ministry for other reasons, I can understand the desire to leave when things get hard. It's what Jesus described as a shepherd versus a hireling.

And, by Jim, I meant Ed. :)

What if the higher numbers (of troubled pastors) among the younger pastors are pretty much normal and they become more content as they mature?

A longitudinal study would be interesting.

T Howard wrote: If that’s the case, perhaps younger pastors entered pastoral ministry with a wrong or incomplete understanding / view of pastoral ministry?

Idealism tends to correlate with youth. It could be that younger pastors experience more disappointment as they learn to adjust their expectations for what ministry with humans is really like—even at its best. Not that seminaries, etc., can’t work harder on “expectation adjustment” during training.

I recall, though, that when I was a youth in training and would hear older pastors opine about how tough ministry is I mostly did not believed them. As far as my personal experience went later, my skepticism was confirmed. Full time pastoral ministry was better than I expected. Doing it as the fallen human I am was harder than I expected. What I mean is that the warnings were all about how tough congregations are, not how much you can be your own worst enemy.

So perhaps there is plenty of ‘realism,’ in training but it could be better aimed. My view is that the toughest thing any pastor is going to have to overcome in ministry is going to ultimately be himself.

Good comments, all.

I think a lot of men (and now women) sense a call because they have sensitive consciences and the Dunning-Kruger effect does its thing (people don’t know that they don’t know and believe they know what is really important). Many, I believe, are co-dependents, to use a psych term. Same thing, IMO, in the psychology/counseling field.

Some go into ministry to straighten themselves out or they think it will keep them on the straight and narrow. For whatever reason, people believe they are called by God. Trying to distinguish personal feelings that come from buried causes and the leading of the Spirit (and He does stretch us) is not the exact science we would like to believe it is.

Interestingly, it seems (based upon things I have read which I sadly cannot document) that the younger generations of pastors/leaders/missionaries do not hold traditional views about being called. We have, in the past, had discussions on SI to this effect. If such is the case, that alone could explain the early casualties.

Aaron seems to have had a more realistic approach than most of us. For most of us (I am appointing myself a spokesperson), ministry is not what it seems (or seemed).

When I served as a lay elder in my former church, we had two 20-something guys on staff. Both of them viewed pastoral ministry in terms of authority and respect. Titles were important to them. They wanted people to call them Pastor X and Pastor Y instead of calling them by their first names. They felt people were disrespecting them if people didn't refer to them as Pastor X and Pastor Y. They were offended if someone suggested that their opinions and perspectives on certain ministry issues may be lacking needed experience. They didn't like it when people in the church questioned their decisions.

Further, they believed the lead/senior pastor should call the shots and the lay elders should serve only as advisors. They did not like that several of our elders questioned or disagreed with our senior pastor's decisions on occasion.

If this is your attitude as a 20-something pastor fresh out of college or seminary, I can see why you're headed for disappointment and disillusionment in pastoral ministry.

T Howard wrote:

Further, they believed the lead/senior pastor should call the shots and the lay elders should serve only as advisors. They did not like that several of our elders questioned or disagreed with our senior pastor's decisions on occasion.

If this is your attitude as a 20-something pastor fresh out of college or seminary, I can see why you're headed for disappointment and disillusionment in

Yeah, heading for a big disappointment.

I am not sure of the necessity of a "call" to keep at it. I think one has to be committed to a mission, and that sees you through. By that I mean, you are committed to "whatever it takes" to do the Lord's work.

We've had disappointments and serious attacks from people. To be expected. We've had money troubles. Probably also to be expected.

We just kept going, finding ways to solve money problems (working two jobs most of the time), working through the people problems.

It's not that we are super saints, but we, my wife and I, just made up our minds we would stick with it. (It also helped that we could never agree that it was time to quit! Usually if one was down, the other was up enough to stick with it.)

One thing I have to say about stories we heard in Preacher Boys (and elsewhere) from seasoned pastors was that I took their stories to heart, sometimes they came back to me as we went through a similar problem. It also helped me to think through some policies I would hold for myself to try to head off problems before they happened. I think that helped.

I do get a little tired about the moaning you sometimes hear about how hard the ministry is. So it's hard. And your point is???

I am from the north and more urban, so I guess I think differently than some others. And church experiences are very different, one from another.

I also recognize there are good pastors and not so good pastors. Nonetheless, I think to refer to any pastor as a “preacher boy” is an insult, IMO. To refer to any adult, IMO, as a boy (other than going out with the “boys”), I think is an insult, at least where I am from.

The spirit of I Timothy 4:12 suggests we should not look down on a pastor just because he is young:

Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. (I Timothy 4:12).

IMO, I think pastors who work hard at preaching and teaching should receive double honor, and that may or may not include the title “Pastor” before their name, based on their preference.

Some churches treat their pastors as hired hands rather than called servants, they should go all the way and become Plymouth Brethren, IMO.

People use the church — and pastors — sometimes to make themselves feel important. It doesn’t take many people to make a pastor so miserable that he has no choice, in his mind, but to leave. I have seen it happen many times. Older pastors are aware that it is not them — but these people (many of whom have serious social, egotistical or psychological issues) that is the problem. Young pastors often blame themselves.

Ed Vasicek wrote:

I am from the north and more urban, so I guess I think differently than some others. And church experiences are very different, one from another.

I recognize that experiences differ. When I moan about preachers moaning, what I mean are those who are in stable congregations, have the leadership in hand, but cultivate the notion among their people that preachers have a harder lot than other men. I think that's rubbish.

I also recognize there are good pastors and not so good pastors. Nonetheless, I think to refer to any pastor as a “preacher boy” is an insult, IMO. To refer to any adult, IMO, as a boy (other than going out with the “boys”), I think is an insult

On insults... well, quite frankly, I think that's ridiculous. My use of the term referred to the preacher's class at BJU, not to pastors. We commonly called our training class "preacher boys" and no one, as far as I know took it as an insult.

Usually when people take something as an insult, it reflects more on them than on those using a term without malice.

As one who has pastored the same church for fifty years (and still going), I offer a couple of thoughts.

Is pastoral ministry hard? Yes, without a doubt. It requires hard work, long hours, and dealing with difficult people and problems. Young men who aspire to ministry need to realize that the pastor has one of the most difficult "jobs" in the world. Is pastoral ministry rewarding? Yes, without a doubt! There is great satisfaction in seeing God working in individual lives and congregations. If one expects a life of sacrifice, he will probably be surprised to find that the rewards outweigh the hardships. If one is not prepared to sacrifice, he will no doubt discover that things are a lot harder than he expected. Stay the course! If you do, you will be satisfied late in life, and even more so when you meet the Lord.

Speaking as a layman, the senior pastor of my church for the last almost 12 years is almost 15 years younger than I am, and our assistant pastor (until recently moving to take his own ministry) was almost 30 years younger than I. Since I’m an old guy, I still call a pastor (even a younger one), “Pastor X” rather than their first name, due to “respect for the office” that was pounded into me by my Dad (Army officer) from little on. There are plenty of people in the church who use the pastors’ first names, and the are comfortable with it. That’s on them, and I’m going to continue to do it my way.

With regard to advice, particularly when asked for (but even sometimes when not), I’m completely straight up with what I think is good advice, whether it agrees with what the pastor is saying or not. My senior pastor has always appreciated that from me (and has told me so), whether at times I’m one of the deacons, but also when I’m not. He certainly has no need to take my advice, but I’m clear when I disagree, and even once the decision has been made, although I yield to it out of respect, and don’t try to cause strife, I also still retain my disagreement, and would say so when asked.

So while I try to always use terms of respect or titles of office, I also freely question (respectfully), so if any leaders consider questioning of their decisions off limits, they’d have an issue with me, even as I would still call them “Pastor X.” As wise as they may be, they are still fallible men, and their decisions are hardly off-limits to questioning.

Ed Vasicek wrote: I think to refer to any pastor as a “preacher boy” is an insult, IMO. To refer to any adult, IMO, as a boy (other than going out with the “boys”), I think is an insult, at least where I am from.

Yeah, it’s a BJU thing. I think I remember referring to each other as ‘preacher boys’ sometimes, too, in addition to the ongoing class, which was a four year ongoing thing. Maybe twice a week. But I think BJU got it from some southern tradition. It wasn’t the official name of the class or of the students.

But it has some relevance to the OP because there was a culture to being among the preacher boys. We were set apart in various ways from regular students. There tended to be a feeling, often an openly stated view, that having this calling was to be called to something higher than everyone else.

Then you get out in ministry and find out that while some have a sort of reverence toward you, many do not. The latter are correct, and I often communicated that in pastoral days. Maybe not enough. Respect is important, but I never believed I was owed more respect than the truck driver in the pew. We just had different roles and responsibilities.

It may well be a factor in pastoral longevity that we have some problems with our doctrine on vocation and work. Maybe the confusion on that point contributes to an expectation that doing ministry is going to be “better” than a regular job. It is different, in a lot of ways, to be sure. But is doing what God wants you to do ever really better than anyone else doing what God wants him or her to do?

During parts of my training, and in other contexts, it has been common to conflate the office of pastor with the biblical office of prophet. But pastors in training need to be aware that they are not at all special in that way. They are called to do specific work, just like your doctor, your school teacher, your farmer, your IT tech.

It’s true that the pastoral work has a highly visible and influential place in the local church, which has elevated importance in this age. But in eternity, does that work matter more than the deacons, elders, trustees, ushers, nursery workers, Sunday school teachers, accountants, musicians, cleaners, cooks, and all the rest?

We’ll see, won’t we? I really doubt it. Going into it with that understanding might help.

I realize I may have an ethos problem in this topic as a former pastor. What I think my experience underscores, though, is that guys have widely varying reasons for moving out of that role. And my personal case argues against the idea that the culture of “higher calling” is the problem. I never bought any of that. So… maybe it’s a factor, maybe it isn’t. It probably is for some and not for others.

Don wrote:

On insults… well, quite frankly, I think that’s ridiculous. My use of the term referred to the preacher’s class at BJU

Maybe in the south back then it wasn’t considered rude, and maybe it still is not insulting in that culture. But most of the Christian world is not out of BJU, and that is a point to ponder.

Different traditions form in different parts of the country. But to my northern ears, it resonates as a condescending way to describe ministerial students. I do understand that you do not use the term to be intentionally condescending.

BTW, on the lighter side, if someone referred to me as a “boy” at my age, I would take it as a complement and drink it up!