"The president of the United States disgraced himself and his office."

[Rolland McCune]

I am also totally uncomfortable with the language used against Mr. Trump’s words, actions, family and a host of other perceived faults. I hear his assailants using the same terms and attitudes they ascribe to the man himself.

I assume you are also totally uncomfortable with the language used against Mr. Obama, Mr. Bush, Mr. Clinton, and Mr. Bush, Sr.? I’m not being sarcastic with that statement, I am just curious. Because many who love President Trump were filled with vitriol against some or all of those and against Senator Pelosi both now and when she was the Speaker of the House; in both cases, I think it is fair to say God sovereignly ordained her to those positions, as well.

Rolland,

Does submission to authority imply that we cannot call sin sin? Are we not to be discerning and wise? I personally have no hope that president Trump will accomplish anything but to further the overarching power and abuse of the federal government. Would you have criticized the same remarks under Obama?

I agree we need to maintain respect for the office and the man but did not God also ordain Hitler, Stalin, Nero, etc? I believe Christians should submit to authority while at the same time criticizing sinful and oppressive actions. You seem to be lumping the talking heads you mentioned with the commenters here. I don’t see anyone calling him a racist.

Josh, your last sentence is not quite clear. When you say “I don’t see anyone calling him a racist”, are you referring to Trump, Will, Krauthammer, or who?

Along those lines, I’m absolutely sure I’ve seen people call Trump a racist (Amazon forwards me the Washington Post feed—they’re apoplectic in this regard), and I’m pretty sure if I dig a bit, I’ll find that someone’s been accusing Will and Krauthammer of the same as well. “Racist” is kinda becoming an all-purpose insult because we’re not flinching as much when the previous all-purpose insult of “Nazi” is used because so many have Godwinned themselves, sad to say.

The prior sentence was meant to be the context. No one here is calling him a racist. I do realize there are people saying that including most of my extended family. I don’t believe that he is racist or has said anything to indicate that he is.

[Joeb]

Bert I don’t know how your guys the Engineers and Scientists have any motivation to do anything. It’s Berts people who are helping our Country hang in there economically, but you can’t keep hitting them in the head with a 2 by 4. Sooner or later Bert’s people will vote with there feet. Then what will our children have a third world nation handed to them.

…..that’s the basic plot of Atlas Shrugged, more or less:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged

If you doubt this, ask your financial advisor how many of his colleagues used to be engineers. An illustration of the idiocy of our current tax and regulatory state is that at a company where I used to work, the accountants and bookkeepers outnumbered the engineers about 2:1, and at least 25% of the engineers were really doing mostly regulatory compliance. Another illustration is that when I was told the overall cost burden of U.S. vs. Chinese labor, the 6:1 difference exceeded the wages that were being paid to U.S. workers by a factor of four or so. Now some of that is the building and expected profits, but most of it was the EPA and OSHA.

Yet another; the total time burden for the income tax is about six billion hours per year, or about 24 hours per citizen and about 40 hours per taxpayer. What could the wage-earner in your home do with an extra week of time? We have the seen burden of government, but the unseen is not that far behind.

Yet another; work force participation is at its lowest levels since the 1950s, but non-participation is not housewives anymore, but rather men who lost their jobs in 2008-9 and have never really found new work. Our government statistics are telling a story to anyone who will listen, but unfortunately we’re giving Congressional seats and the White House to people who need a calculator to figure out a reasonable tip.

I will reply briefly to the questions raised by my TRUMP and NEVER TRUMP post.

1. Tyler, “The Impending Crisis” The article’s opening sentence explains the intended readership. It was written about “those who blame President Trump ‘here’ (i.e., those from SI) and ‘elsewhere’ (i.e., those not from SI).” I do not know who all that may entail. It was a generic reference.

2. Tyler, “The Impending Crisis” No, I don’t assume those who disagree with me are ignorant. I was referring to “the many people [who] are ignorant and clueless,” that you mentioned, and not to “the several on this thread who appear to have reasonable and informed opinions.” If I may, I would highly recommend you read Understanding Trump by Newt Gingrich (2017). Newt has a wealth of knowledge and experience, and he has certainly earned the right to be heard. The book should round off most of the sharp corners of the unkind, unfair and untrue narrative about the president.

3. J. Noel, “And the Others” The civil and social atmosphere did not seem nearly as strident, malicious, hateful and dangerous as it became under Obama. Before then I was also quite busy teaching, preaching and being involved in academics. But retirement (in 2009) changed that and I became more interested in politics, health insurance, world conditions, etc. I became very weary of President Obama’s rhetoric, economics, foreign policy and his far left administration, although I wasn’t “filled with vitriol.” It seemed the White House and nearly all liberals were a club of pathological liars. The president’s advisors and handlers came off as mainly blowhard acolytes. Corruption escalated. Strangely, racism took off in the Obama years and the social and political atmosphere turned violently ugly in many sections of the country; culprits and victims were reversely identified. So my comfort zone probably narrowed accordingly.

RE the foreordination of Nancy Pelosi. Yes, she certainly was foreordained by God to her positions. The “hows” of this divine exercise are a complete mystery. I think it was theologian Charles Hodge who said of this, God sometimes ordains what He hates and abhors, e.g., Rev 17:17. No human mind can comprehend this doctrine. It is incomprehensible to finite thinking. This subject is a classic example of the Creator-creature distinction; nothing exists in man as it exists in God. God cannot be fully known by a finite mind. This will also apply eternally where humans will still be finite. Sorry if I ruined anyone’s eternity. The “why” of this is clear from Scripture: the self-glory of God. None of this absolves any human’s responsibility nor that his/her actions are involuntary.

Please, don’t anyone run with this, at least not on this thread. I will not reply. I recommend three or more years in Detroit Baptist Seminary for an excellent starter.

4. Josh P, “Submission to authority” Submission to authority certainly does not imply we cannot call sin sin. But I do respectfully reject your proposition of the hopelessness of President Trump’s ability “to accomplish anything.” Much has been accomplished in the 6 or 7 months of his administration. Of course almost no one knows about these things, thanks to the nearly total corruption of the main media. Last night in Phoenix the president outlined quite a number of things that he has gotten done. Given the ferocity of the implacable and unrelenting hatred, lying, and obstruction against him and his administration, I don’t see how he got anything at all done.

5. Josh P, “Submission to authority” Yes, I was/am critical of Obama’s inability to produce good leadership. He “led from behind,” neglected his responsibilities by the many vacations, golf outings, fund raisers, etc. If he wanted or needed, he would simply not reply to questions, situations and decisions that were necessarily to be made. E.g., where was he the night of the murderous Ben Ghazi attack? No one seems to know or will say. He seemed to dish off many of the responsibilities to his aides. Every major decision was mostly governed by political strategy; no disaster went unused for political advantage.

Re: lumping together talking heads with SI commentors, see # 1.

6. P Joeb I have the same questions as you do about the inability of Republicans in Congress to get more of the president’s agenda through to his desk. The president is obviously frustrated as well. Part of the problem is the laid back lethargy of the good ol’ boy political mossbacks who thoroughly enjoy the snail’s pace and social milieu of the Congress. Case in point: Mitch McConnell. Someone needs to flip his Bic under these drones. Obstructinist Democrats seem not nearly as inanimate.

“That’s all I have to say about that,” quoth the inimitable Forrest Gump.

My take is not that Trump has uniquely disgraced himself (as if others were not understanding this already, ha), but rather that by being reckless in his rhetoric, he’s making it tough to get things done.

My prayer is that he remembers what Halsey and Nimitz did with MacArthur in the Pacific; they recognized early on that they could not take on the strongholds of the Japanese head-on, but rather they did a strategy of “island-hopping” to get viable bases on vulnerable islands, and then transform what had been a case where the Navy would have had to fight land-based forces into a case where the Army Air Force and Marines were able to match land-based forces with land-based forces.

How this would work in politics is that instead of getting big ticket things done, he’s going to need to be content finding some little things where government is almost undeniably out of line and fixing that—more or less dare the Democrats to stand in the way. One place to start is that self-paid medical care is taxed differently than employer paid—the latter is exempt from income and FICA taxes, the former is partially exempt from income tax. OK, why is that just?

Get people used to making moral arguments against government programs, and I dare say that a lot of them would go quickly, even if they’re popular. And as those programs meet their overdue demise, the bureaucrats who run them are going to have to leave the swamp and find honest work. Two-fer.

http://coldfusion-guy.blogspot.com/2017/07/president-trump-mid-year-201…

Note: This was before Charlottesville