Ken Ham responds to critics

[Greg Long]

Again, I don’t NEED it either (there’s that word again), just like I don’t NEED other creation resources (like their books and Web site) upon which to base my faith or to help me to evangelize. But I tend to think on the whole these resources are helpful. I thought there were some helpful aspects to the CM (and hey, why not allow families to have some fun with a petting zoo and ziplines). I haven’t made any plans to visit the AE, but in general I think it would be cool to stand in a replica of the ark in order to experience its size.

I agree it would be cool to stand in a replica. I am just not convinced on the approach. And I think we should be clear that there is more here than just an altruistic approach. There is profit and people are profiting from it, and it is a lot of money to be in debt for.

It’s a Christian bookstore (Lifeway; et..al) on steroids—nothing more; nothing less. It is marketing a product/experience to a significant American demographic and should make a boat-load of money (pun intended) in the process. That is what sales and marketing are about. Like a Christian bookstore discernment shouldn’t be checked at the door, and many will find some junk and a lot of good, useful product through the experience.

If I were a municipality looking to attract business, and tax-based incentives were the primary tool in my toolbox, and, based on the previous performance of the CM recognized that a potential gold mine was looking to set up shop in my town, I’d throw every legitimate incentive their way to get them there. That is what you pay economic development committees to do—after all, there’s only going to be one winner here. I don’t understand what the argument is all about.

…I didn’t need to go to the tomb to believe in the resurrection, but it was a very cool experience even though there is significant debate that it is even the right tomb (particularly the Garden Tomb).

Most of the promises made to get TIF and the like turn out to be way optimistic. For example, the New London neighborhood made infamous in the Kelo decision is a vacant lot today, not the promised business park. So whatever good could be done by the Ark Encounter could be more than reversed by the shame of having such an encounter go under—think Heritage USA. Enterprises that receive help from the government often make huge mistakes in their business plan because they spent that $70k applying for the help, not evaluating their market.

(see “Solyndra” and a host of other “green energy” programs)

Single Day Ticket:

1-day ticket to Ark Encounter*
Visit day or evening
Parking pass not included

Adult: $40
Senior: $31
Child: $28 (Children under 5 are FREE)

*Ticket prices do not include tax.

Parking fees not included

https://arkencounter.com/tickets/

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So let’s assume Dad, Mom, and their two kids want to visit. If the children are both age 5 or over, the ticket costs for this family are $136.00 (pre-tax). Add KY’s 6% sales tax, and tickets are $144.16.

The family arrives by car (which, due to the location of the Ark, is really the only practical option). Nowhere on the website do I see the cost of parking, but it’s clearly extra.

Add onsite food & beverages & the souvenirs that the kids beg for (or Dad or Mom can’t resist), and suddenly we’re talking easily $200.00+ for a family visit.

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What does anyone think? Will the 2,000,000 annual visitors show up that the Ark Encounter has projected in its business model?

…and the interest on the bonds is 5.25-6%, so we’re talking four million to cover bond interest, a million for property tax, another million for insurance, a few million for maintenance, a few million for utilities…we’re talking $10-15 million just to keep the lights on—to use Larry’s numbers, that’s the first 200,000 visitors before you get to pay any worker one red cent—and you’re going to need hundreds at tens of thousands of dollars apiece.

Since a lot of people are making an extended trip to go to the Creation Museum, including hundreds of miles of driving and a night or two in a hotel, I would anticipate that a portion of the Creation Museum’s 250,000 visitors would also go to the Ark Experience, which suggests…

…I’m sorry, guys, but they are in serious trouble. For comparison’s sake, an annual membership to Chicago’s Field Museum (where I could and have spent weeks) is only $145 for a family. Minnesota Zoo is similar. Sorry, guys, I have to predict crash and burn here. And guess who is on the hook if it goes under? If you guessed “the city of Williamstown”, go to the head of the class.

Sorry, but barring a miracle, the taxpayer is going to get hit HARD by this one.

[Greg Long]

Bert, the newspaper article is not making a case against TIFs in general as you are, but rather that they are being used in this particular case. They are inconsistently outraged about the use of these tax incentives, as they’re not arguing against it in principal, just that shouldn’t be used for any religious entity. To achieve their agenda, they are using misleading headlines and articles making it seem that AiG received direct government subsidies to help build the thing, which is just false.

Agreed that they’re being inconsistent, and they should be called on that and were. However, in light of the numbers Larry and I presented, I think the headline was accurate, if only by the “broken clock” syndrome. I may be surprised and watch this really take off, and I hope I am proven wrong, but the numbers are just plain ugly at this point.

Bert,

How do the taxpayers get hit hard if the tax concession only applies to taxes collected from Ark Museum sales? How much does it cost the taxpayers before the Ark is built? Zero. How much after it’s built? Zero. The taxpayers receive more taxes after the Ark is operating than they did before. They may not receive as much as they would without the concession, but something is more than nothing. No Ark equals no revenue. With Ark, some revenue. Or am I missing something here?

You aren’t missing anything. Certain people just have a bone to pick and they think their back of the envelope calculations are infallible.

The good thing is you live in Minnesota (correct?), and not in Kentucky! So it doesn’t effect you if the park loses money!

From my office, I can see a huge apartment complex that was built by TIF financing. The whole thing was absurd from the beginning, but the city council approved it 10 years ago. For 10 years the tax income has come short of the TIF bond interest by $500,000 per year. The city tax payers are on the hook for another 10 years…

So, forgive me, but EVEN IF the Ark Encounter is a bust and doesn’t meet projections, I am happy that something was built with TIF financing other than apartments, stadiums, and the like.

then the property tax exemption of churches and ministries is tax payer subsidy of religion. Be careful what you wish for Bert.

[G. N. Barkman]

Bert,

How do the taxpayers get hit hard if the tax concession only applies to taxes collected from Ark Museum sales? How much does it cost the taxpayers before the Ark is built? Zero. How much after it’s built? Zero. The taxpayers receive more taxes after the Ark is operating than they did before. They may not receive as much as they would without the concession, but something is more than nothing. No Ark equals no revenue. With Ark, some revenue. Or am I missing something here?

See here. Look who’s issuing the bonds. They say the city isn’t liable, but let’s be real here. If they go bust, that does affect at least credit ratings.

Moreover, unless AIG is building the roads and sewers themselves, yes, the city is out some money already. What about schools and the like for expected workers? Sorry, but Ham is doing only a small part of the costs here.

[G. N. Barkman]

Bert,

How do the taxpayers get hit hard if the tax concession only applies to taxes collected from Ark Museum sales? How much does it cost the taxpayers before the Ark is built? Zero. How much after it’s built? Zero. The taxpayers receive more taxes after the Ark is operating than they did before. They may not receive as much as they would without the concession, but something is more than nothing. No Ark equals no revenue. With Ark, some revenue. Or am I missing something here?

The bondholders lose their investment if the venture folds (bonds are “unrated”, aka “junk bonds”, with no local or state backing). The bonds are backed only by potential revenue–i.e. the success of the venture. If it folds, they’re out their investment.

Here are just some ways the taxpayers would lose:

1. The local government is investing about $10M (+/-) on road improvements leading to the Ark. (They of course hope that investment eventually pays off in taxes generated.) If the Ark folds before that would happen, the taxpayers would have paid for an expensive “road to nowhere.”

2. If the Ark folds, who gets stuck with maintenance & security costs? That’s right: the local (and perhaps state) government. In other words, taxpayers. Here’s the thing: to whom could such a property be re-sold? It simply couldn’t. It would be a “white elephant.” Unless someone else were willing to try to re-open an Ark theme park in place of one that had already failed, selling it would be next to impossible (once again, showing how the bondholders would be out their investments). Since the local government would be liable for maintaining security at a closed Ark, for which they authorized construction (imagine people trying to scale it and/or break into it, and perhaps get injured or even killed in the process) the local government would likely have to fence it & post security around-the-clock. Not wanting to do that in perpetuity (and unable to re-sell it), they’d eventually get stuck with the huge expense of tearing-down a deteriorating Ark……

Just some ways the taxpayers could/would be liable.