Josh Duggar resigns from Family Research Council after sexual abuse allegations

[Jim]

• First of all I have a responsibility to post filings and update them.
• Secondly … if you find an article that you believe defends the Duggars, add it to this thread.

The Twitter feeds were posted by you it appears. Doesn’t that mean that discussion of them would be directed to you? I really thought this thread contained discussion by readers of SI. Didn’t know that it was open to articles from entities like a so-called Adgate. Who are they? How could anyone address them through SI?

[jimcarwest]

GregH wrote:

To be very honest, I thought the Fox interview last night made the Duggars look bad for many reasons. It is interesting how Duggar fans see it very differently from how I (and many friends) saw it. I don’t necessarily want to go into all the things that made me shake my head and wince but there were plenty.

What is the opposite of “Dugger fans”? “Duggar enemies”? I don’t this it is helpful to cast aspersions on those who believe the tabloids, the liberal media, and some ill-informed opponents of the moral positions the Duggars hold by referring to them as “fans.” I thought the interview cleared up a number of issues that justified their thinking. Does that make me a “fan”? What the interview and the following discussion did do was demonstrate the reason for protecting minors from the curiosity of a nosey media that doesn’t care a whit about the damage done to these minors when the indiscretions and errors of their youth are spread across the front page of a tabloid. The lawyer who argued for ignoring the law that protects minors said that the public’s right to know trumps the privacy of the minor. Is that the society we have become? This same media goes to great lengths to hide the blatant wrongdoing of some of its darling politicians.

Your sensitivity illustrates the most nauseating thing about how Duggar fans are reacting to this. Despite the fact that this country is overwhelmingly Christian-friendly (70-80% claim Christianity), everything is always a conspiracy against Christians. One thing is clear from the interview that the Duggars have decided that their approach to this is going to be to try to spin it as persecution and to attempt to deflect the blame onto the police for releasing the report. I wondered initially why they would attempt that but then I realized they were just playing to their base that will defend them from “persecution” just like they rose to defend Phil Robertson from “persecution.”

Set the Duggar’s aside.

I have spent way too much time on this story over the last week or two, reading not just at SI, but many news sites. I have read many of the responses and comments as well. Here is what I can definitely say:

1- There is a tremendous amount of anti-Christian anger out there in the blogosphere. It is possible that it is fake, being generated by bots of some type to make it look natural, but I don’ think so. If you don’t believe me, go to https://att.yahoo.com/ , pick a Duggar story, and read the comments. If you have never done that you need to.

2- As a result, Christians are not going to get much sympathy no matter what the story in the media.

3- Christians don’t support Christians unless we think they did everything just as we would’ve done it. Otherwise we throw them to the lions and machine gun them on the way down. Like I said, this isn’t just the Duggars. Three recent examples on SI alone: the LCPL in the Marine Corps, the TBN chimney story, and the Tulsa pastor killed by a OHP officer. All have almost exclusive criticism against the Christian (and I tended to be the only person giving the Christian the “benefit of the faith” that perhaps the news story wasn’t 100% accurate in reflecting the Christians actions). There are many more examples than these.

4-So, back to the Duggars. They have no chance in the media. It is over.

5-So, Christianity in America takes another jab in the solar plexus, and Christians (whether you accept the Duggars or not), helped make it happen, and joyfully so. There is a way to support Christianity without wittingly supporting the rabid anti-Christian movement in America. If you, like GregH (see above comment by him), apparently think there is no such thing, you are not paying attention.

Mark,

On your points 1 and 2, I agree with you.

On point 3, I see what you are saying, but there has to be some middle ground between being seen as throwing Christians to the lions, and supporting stupidity. I haven’t had much to say about the Duggars, mainly because 1. I agree with those who say they did not exercise discernment by televising their life, and 2. (personal opinion), I don’t believe that people who have 20 children can adequately oversee all that happens and raise them properly. In every large Christian family I have come across and spent any time with, the older children end up doing a *lot* of the raising of the younger ones because the parents simply don’t, no matter their intentions, have enough time in a day to both take care of their adult responsibilities and spend enough time parenting each child. And now their interview does make it sound to me as if they are doing a little playing of the victim. I’m not sure I could or would have done differently, since I haven’t experienced a similar situation. But without all the facts, I can’t rise to their defense any more than I can spend any time condemning them.

In the case of the Marine, I have seen and heard enough from other Christian Marines (not to mention the chaplain who contributes here) to believe that this Marine was also not a good choice for Christians to see as blatant persecution, since it does not appear that in all other ways she was any kind of good example. Again, though, I don’t know enough to either defend or condemn.

Finally, in regard to TBN, they may indeed be in the right legally. I will say that to an outsider, the way things have gone so far make them look bad. The fact they name Christ only makes it worse. They are quibbling over $20,000, when they obviously do use the chimney and could easily have contributed to the repairs as a good-will gesture, even if they don’t truly have any legal exposure. And if that is true, at the very least, they could have published the legal facts that show that prior agreements (or whatever) form the basis of their claims they don’t owe anything. But for an organization that has purchased 3 planes, this just makes them look like Ebenezer Scrooge.

I’m not joyful about any of these situations, but I also feel no compulsion to justify the people at the center of them without any more information. If that means I helped make it happen, then so be it. Better than going against the scripture that condemns those who answer a matter without hearing it.

[Mark_Smith]

If you, like GregH (see above comment by him), apparently think there is no such thing, you are not paying attention.

Mark, try to at least be somewhat honest in how you represent me. I did not say that there was no anti-christian movement in America. Of course there is but it is the distinct minority. What I said was that in a place where 70-80% claim Christianity, it is basically absurd to take the position that Christians can really be persecuted (except in isolated instances).

What some people call persecution is simply Christians being called out on hypocrisy and sin. That was true with Phil Robertson. It is true here. Even if the Duggars handled the situation right in your opinion, it is not hard to see why the world can look at them and see hypocrisy.

Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God… For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? … If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed … But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler… For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God;

So I think it’s clear that this should not be a, “Hey, they identify as Christian, so we must support them” sort of thing. Especially in the case of TBN which promotes a false gospel and ought to be roundly condemned by every believer. And as someone hinted above, it is not the Christians who make tough judgments about these scenarios who harm the cause of our King, it is those who take his name and subsequently misbehave.

and you know what? You are on the list too! And so am I. We all are.

Let’s get our “machine gun” and start shooting!

I have no idea what you mean.

Paul

David

Peter

Abraham

James the brother of Jesus

Solomon

No chance for these people. They have secrets in their past. They did wrong things. They sinned. Some even murdered! Nope, better stay out of the public eye. Hide. Say nothing and draw no attention to yourself because you messed up…

Mark,

Take David for instance. He had his sin pointed out, exposed, and endured lifelong consequences.

If you want to interact with the very pertinent scripture I posted, feel free.

It’s not that I have no compassion for the Duggars at all, but excusing [or minimizing some or, really, any of their alleged wrong doings] * is a huge mistake and does no one, not us, not them, and not God, any favors.

*Original language edited, details in subsequent post.

David did God no favors. He had a man killed to hide adultery! And God remembers him as a friend and lists him in Hebrews 11 in the faith hall of fame.