Bible Colleges a Relic of the Past?

Dr. Straub:

You must love the Navy SEALs! Why not give Marine Force Recon or Army DELTA some love too? As for the Air Force, well …

Tech stocks became the en vogue money maker. They became over-valued, and then the bubble burst. The housing market became the en vogue money maker, and the federal government (believing everybody should have a really big one) subsidized the market. Homes became way over-valued, and then the bubble burst. The federal government subsidizes health care, and the market is growing (artificially) beyond belief. Eventually, we must bow to market forces, and that bubble will burst.

Apparently, society at large believes that everybody should seek a brick and mortar college degree. Federal and State governments are pumping away to inflate the bubble. The system is completely unsustainable as it is. Eventually, the bubble must burst. It is bursting even as we speak. http://www.cnbc.com/id/100598257

We used to go to the university because it had books, professors, computers, and lectures that we could not access without being physically present. Now, we have the Kindle, Amazon, Google, YouTube, The Great Courses, iPhone lexicons, and a hundred versions of the Holy Bible for free on a dozen different websites. We have GoToMeeting, Sharper Iron, and all of the professional publications (archaeology, history, literature, etc.) are a click away.

Yes, it is true that there is a wonderful opportunity to make life-long friends (perhaps a spouse), discuss ideas over coffee, and be immersed in a godly environment when a young person is willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars each year to attend bible college. But in exchange, we go into debt in our early years. We lose the benefit of starting a nest egg before getting married. We leave our pastor and our local church. We leave our parents, deacons, elders, and those who know our strengths and weaknesses. Again, this used to be necessary in order to have access to information and learned men. It is still necessary for certain professions (physicians, engineers, etc.). But the costs are high, and perhaps it is time to invent new models of training for those seeking to enter full-time Christian service.

[Jonathan Charles]

I don’t like the idea of church-trained pastors since most churches cannot offer a pastor-to-be all that he would need: Church History, Greek, Hebrew, Systematic Theology, Exegesis, Homiletics. etc. What average church could ever give a young man instruction in all that?

Jonathan,

I agree with you that most are unprepared to do it. Who knows maybe it’s because they were trained within the current system!

:)

By the grace of God, I was just ordained in my church(Orthodox Presbyterian) as a Ruling elder on Easter Sunday. It came after 52 weeks of weekly classes on all of the subjects you mention above. I must admit that my Hebrew leaves much to be desired…but it certainly left me with more compassion for Moses when he said he needed someone to help him talk!

I am thankful that the Session in my church(and the Book of Church Order) thought enough of the position to charge the pastor with the task of training the 3 of us. The other two guys became deacons and are on a continuing path to become elders.

Granted, to become a Teaching Elder(3 office system) in our denomination, I believe requires an M-Div degree. The current Teaching Elder and the one studying to be have never stepped in a Theology school. Most in the denomination, however, do. The two men studied online and take as many classes as possible with local Teaching Elders in the denomination. Men we have friendships with and know. Thus the accountability is tighter.

This has worked fairly well and still has to grow, but I think it has a better chance of surviving and thriving than anything I have seen so far.

I am going to disagree with this article. Bible colleges as we have known them are quickly becoming relics of the past but not Bible college in an off themselves.

- Potential students, looking for training, are more attracted to schools that are more interested in building God’s kingdom than a fiefdom.

- Distance learning is more appealing because it can be done at a much better cost and it allows a person to be on a field of service while experiencing training for service.

- Accreditation will be the standard. It is not perfect. It has challenges. But, it is a system that raises the standard of training and businesses don’t want people with unaccredited degrees and many churches, after being burned by bozo after bozo in the pulpit, are starting to look for more academic credentials among those they are choosing to be their next spiritual leaders.

[Jeff Straub]

I wonder when the training for Navy Seals with start offering online modules? There are just some things that require a classroom setting to learn or field work.

I think this is the professionalization of the ministry that Piper and Tripp warn about in their books “Brothers we are not Professionals” and “Dangerous Calling.”

In another comment, you mentioned how plurality of elders often assumes equality of training. I understand that is a problem that needs to be overcome as churches seek to have a more faithful church government, yet it should be our high goal to have elders trained well enough that they can pass on a seminary education to the their 2 Tim. 2:2 men in their own churches without having to ship them off to a college somewhere.

I know of a church that is doing exactly that in our area. One of their men comes to our church and teaches us NT Greek every other Monday: Sovereign Grace Baptist Church of Morgan Hill, CA

It’s all local church operated by the elders of this church. Classroom settings come from the Greek schools, but Jesus taught his disciples differently. It was holistic and it involved more than the mind, it involved the whole person. This is the way we must start training ministers.

Theological training(“able to teach, refute those who contradict”) seems to represent less than 15% of the qualifications of being an elder/overseer. Albeit, a very important 15%, but one of many qualifications, none the less.

Sometimes I wonder if we are so weak, in part, because we spend 85% of our time, energy, and resources on 15% of the qualifications, and 15% of it on the other 85%.

Just maybe.

but may have been the best that they could do with their current faculties and philosophy and the demands/expectations of their core constituencies.

Ding ding ding ding ding!

Will the core constituencies that supported BJU, NIU, Maranatha, etc even be around in 20 years? Will they tolerate any deviation from the party line of cultural fundamentalism? It didn’t seem like they took the changes at NIU (even before the professor/DS and music changes stuff this year) really well. I remember seeing someone label NIU as ‘apostate’ or the somesuch because they got rid of the demerit system and loosened the dress standards for non-classroom hours.

So far, I’m not optimistic with what I see. Of course, I’m thinking that we might not enjoy the liberties of having ‘Bible Colleges’ in twenty years with the way society is going.

There are about four separate threads going about NIU. I was looking forward to not mentioning NIU in this one. I beg of you, Jay - can we please not talk about NIU in this thread …?

[WilliamD]

I think this is the professionalization of the ministry that Piper and Tripp warn about in their books “Brothers we are not Professionals” and “Dangerous Calling.”

Would this be the same John Piper who has an MDiv from Fuller, a doctorate from Germany and started his own seminary in Minneapolis?

JPS

[TylerR]

There are about four separate threads going about NIU. I was looking forward to not mentioning NIU in this one. I beg of you, Jay - can we please not talk about NIU in this thread …?

So noted.

Moderators, please remove “The School That Must Not Be Named” from my earlier post. ;)

You are a great American. I reward you with a cookie …

[Jeff Straub]

FWIW, I did a 40K PhD without government assistance. When I left Windsor, McCune asked “How you gonna pay for this?” Maybe its just glandular pietism, but I believed then and still do that God pays for what He ordains. This does not preclude hard work and sacrifice. Some in a rush to get into ministry leave school too early, get married have kids and then years later wish they could go back and have to settle to something less …

I don’t begrudge anybody who can do it. And maybe my experience is more solitary than I think. But my experience, in a mainstream church, and recognizable “circle”, has been that if you’re unable to cut it due to finances, you’re labled as “not trusting God”. And, if you’re unwilling to drag your family off to seminary and let them stew for hours per day while you take class and work a FT job, you’re “not willing to sacrifice”. [Sacrifice what? Them?] There are exceptions to the rule, but my experience seems to be more the norm then the exception…

It is my opinion that both responses are unproductive and haughty in nature, don’t reflect reality, and if we are going to continue to raise up the next generation of church leaders in a realistic and timely manner, BOTH attitudes need to be gone, and FAST.

[Jeff Straub]

I wonder when the training for Navy Seals with start offering online modules? There are just some things that require a classroom setting to learn or field work. In the early days of online, I took part of the training to becoming an Emergency Medical Technician via a computer online (before the internet, circa 1986/7). I still had to go to class days for hand’s on teaching. Try to learn CPR via the internet.

Online = good for some things. Impractical for others, IMO.

JS

I will agree on a classroom environment being best for some things, however. Some things ARE better suited for a classroom environment, in block format perhaps. Languages come readily to mind.

I agree with Dan’s statement in general; however, I disagree in two specific areas. First, I work in the same Charlotte area as he and find that there, currently, is not a problem with BJU grads being hired. Uptown Charlotte is littered with BJU finance professionals and I know of three seniors from the school who will start work uptown this fall. Now, accreditation for BJU will be an issue going forward, and I am not optimistic about them getting it. I am also not optimistic, and this is the second thing I disagree with Dan, about any fundamental or conservative evangelical Christian college obtaining or keeping their accreditation in the future, unless they are willing to compromise. There is a commitment clause to “social diversity” in accreditation and I am guessing that it will include sexual preferences here in the near future.

Here is a worthy addition to this discussion, particularly Barry’s last point.

In the meanwhile, Christians need to begin thinking about other models of teaching and learning. Up to now, we have adopted a model borrowed from the medieval universities. We have coupled our educational process with the granting of degrees at the bachelor’s, master’s, and doctor’s levels. That is just what we may not be able to do in the future.

If that happens, we may need to rethink the process of ministry preparation. Future pastors and missionaries do need to be taught, but they do not really need degrees. We might well ask, What will ministry preparation look like in a world in which we are no longer permitted to operate colleges and seminaries? Unless something can be done to reverse the federal juggernaut, that day is almost certain to come.

I have attended a local community college and also attended online for 18 Credits (Tyndale) so I have done a little of both. As I continue my education I will be going to attend on campus starting this fall. This is a decision that needs to be made based on a careful examination of the way God has made the individual. I for one would probably struggle to learn the languages by extension. It has worked well taking what I have online but I dont’t see how an on campus education could not be significantly better.

I agree with those who have questioned the pastors/elders ability to prepare men for the ministry. Maybe churches will start to partner more with Bible colleges to offer their members college education credits from the church. That would have a lot advantages if there were qualified teachers available.