A Few Answers to SharperIron Critics

Should we answer critics or ignore them? Though critics should not be lumped in with fools too hastily, Proverbs 26:4-5 might be of some help in answering this question. Apparently, sometimes we should not answer fools, but sometimes we should. Given the number of leadership experts who say, “Never answer the critics because…” as well as the number who say, “You have to answer your critics because…,” I’m guessing that what’s true of fools is also true of critics in this case: sometimes we shouldn’t answer them, but sometimes we should.

Of course, we should listen to our critics first and weigh their criticism. But when listening to a critic reveals a consistent pattern of factual error (and more than a little evidence of malice), further listening is poor stewardship of our time. That narrows the options to “tuning out” or responding.

Public criticism over an extended period of time narrows the options even further. The likelihood increases that people unfamiliar with the facts will encounter accusations and believe them. Actual damage could occur.

Eventually the question is no longer if we should answer the critics but how to answer them without further empowering them—or perhaps, how to answer them in a way that empowers them less than not answering them! One good way might be to target falsehoods without specifically targeting their source.

So here goes. In most cases, these are criticisms that have been leveled publicly against SI or the team for many months, but some more recent accusations receive attention here as well. I’ll put them all in question form.

Is SharperIron going to go under financially?

Sure—doesn’t everything eventually? But the site has not asked for money in over a year. Last August we had a fund drive to pay for 2009’s server costs. As we enter the third quarter of 2010, we’ve no need to do that this year. But what does that prove, either way? Sometimes the wicked prosper (Ps. 37:7) and sometimes the faithful languish (pretty much the whole book of Jeremiah) and sometimes vice versa.

Did SharperIron misrepresent its membership total?

In May of 2009, the membership database had over 4,000 accounts, many of which had been inactive for quite some time. On June 1, 2009, the site went live with new software we nicknamed “3.0.” Due to unexpected data migration problems, we couldn’t get those accounts into the new software in any timely way. So we gave up and asked everyone to register again. From that point on, we had two membership databases. The old one is still on the server.

For some time after June of ‘09, the membership reporting page still had the old ballpark number of 4,000. At some point, I updated the page with more precise wording distinguishing between the two databases. Now we just report the number in the new database (at this moment, 1,387).

To one critic, having the original “4,000” out there for a while was both dishonest and criminal. And more precise reporting as we continued the transition wasn’t good enough either. But one fact remains: the night before we went to “3.0,” SharperIron, LLC owned a database with more than 4,000 member accounts, and after the move it still owned that database—and still owns it today. “SharperIron 3.0” was a nickname for new software, not the name of a new organization. “3.0” does not have members and never will.

I’m still waiting for the FTC to prosecute me for my crimes. But I’m not holding my breath.

Do the SharperIron team members (publisher, moderators, etc.) beat up on non-calvinists?

I’ve been publicly accused (recently by name) of doing this. I’m tempted to offer a cash reward for anyone who can find a thread where I attacked someone for not being a Calvinist or for expressing views contrary to Calvinism. I don’t think I’ve ever even claimed to be a Calvinist. Since some of the critics seem to have too much time on their hands, I invite them to see if they can find any place where I declared my views on Calvinism. It’s possible that I’ve done that somewhere, but it would take a while to find.

In reference to the team, the situation is a little more complex. Many of the team members are more Calvinistic than not, and in the area of Calvinist soteriology, some are very passionate about their beliefs on one point or several. But that’s OK. At SharperIron, the moderators are allowed to have opinions and express them. We’ve officially said so in the “About” information (though it could probably be made clearer), and that’s been standard practice here since SI launched in 2005.

For the record, Arminians (and neither-nor’s!) are welcome here. The doctrinal statement does not exclude them and we’ve never banned anyone for those views. You will find that Arminian or anti-Calvinist views are greeted with passionate rebuttals, but you are welcome to offer passionate counter-rebuttals.

To any non-Calvinist who is being ganged up on at any time: contact me and cry foul. I can’t really help it if the ratio is such that you’re outnumbered—the membership is open in that regard—but we’ve no desire to gang up on anyone. If you’re a non-Calvinist and want more folks standing with you, recruit some buddies to join the site.

Is SharperIron in love with the conservative evangelicals?

That sort of depends on whether you’re talking about the membership, the readership or the leadership. Members are all over the map on that one. Judging from the ‘09-‘10 reader survey, readers would be even more so. But that accusation is often targeted at the site leadership. Where do we stand?

I feel kind of silly answering this because I think the answer is obvious. But not everybody reads the forum threads, and some apparently read every fifth word or so (just enough to get things completely wrong). The attitude of everybody on the team that I’ve seen comment on the subject is that the McArthur, Mohler, Dever, Carson, Piper, Mahaney, etc. crowd has accomplished some really good things and appears destined to continue to do that. We appreciate much of these men’s work. I don’t know of anyone on the team who would deny that these men have some problems theologically and/or in their practice of separation. The “CEs” are not all the same, so it’s hard to generalize beyond that.

But in discussions about seeking closer ties with these leaders—and others like them—my own response has been pretty consistently tepid. I continue to not really understand why some are so passionate about seeking that kind of “emerging middle.” I’m not for lumping the CEs in with apostates, but my imagination doesn’t seem to be up to the task of envisioning what benefit there would be in “closer ties” (whatever exactly that means). I don’t see much to gain for fundamentalists, for the conservative evangelicals or for the body of Christ as whole. Since I’m not a believer in “bigger is better,” I tend to see larger coalitions as more dramatic but not more productive in any eternal sense.

“In love with the CEs”? Well, I don’t hate them. Maybe to the critics, that’s the same thing.

Has Aaron described the site as being for “fundamentalists of the conservative evangelical variety”?

I have to smile at that one. There’s a little switcheroo misquote there. In a few places I have described the site as being for, or consisting of, “conservative evangelicals of the fundamentalist variety.” I think in one place I went with “conservative evangelicals of the kind known historically as fundamentalists,” but that was pretty clunky. The aim in those descriptions is to help folks who know nothing at all about fundamentalism get some idea what the term means in reference to the site.

Since all who believe and promote the gospel are evangelicals (the term derives from euangelion, the Greek word for “gospel”), the site is certainly for evangelicals. Since our constituents are more conservative than most who claim the gospel, we’re also certainly conservative evangelicals. But since we’re also particular about separation (with varying understandings of the principle), we are in yet another subset: one called fundamentalists.

Maybe a diagram would be of some help.

Does the SI team unfairly moderate people they disagree with?

I don’t think we’ve ever had a “How we can moderate less fairly?” meeting. It’s our aim to be fair, and we put a lot of effort into looking for good balances, but we’d have to be fools to think we’re always successful. Sometimes the truth in a situation seems quite clear at the moment but looks very different a few days or weeks later. Sometimes the only thing that is clear is that we ought to intervene in a discussion, but we can’t work out among us what form that intervention should take. So sometimes we just have to pick an option and go for it, and hope for the best.

Everybody sees things through the filter of his or her own sympathies and prejudices. This is true of moderators but also of members posting in threads. So it’s all too easy for someone to believe he “got reffed” when a foul is called against him.

Interestingly, the most aggressive critic of our moderating efforts routinely and unilaterally removes—or refuses to post—comments at his own site if he doesn’t like what they say. At SI, your comment posts first and if there are issues, a team discusses them. Through that counsel, we seek to make wise choices.

We’re always looking for ways to do things better. One persistent goal is nurturing healthy tension while simultaneously reining in inappropriate or clearly unhelpful statements. But it’s an art, and none of us claim to be Michelangelo.

Conclusion

SI is not constantly under attack. As far as I know, the site’s enemies are few, and critics of the distorting or dishonest sort are even fewer. I don’t get angry phone calls (which kind of surprises me—but I certainly don’t mind!). If there are a whole lot of folks who think we’re a Very Bad Thing, they don’t seem to go out of their way to say so. To the few who seem determined to sling mud: well, sling if you must. I’m not slinging back—but occasionally we will rinse off a bit.


Aaron Blumer, SI’s site publisher, is a native of lower Michigan and a graduate of Bob Jones University (Greenville, SC) and Central Baptist Theological Seminary (Plymouth, MN). He, his wife, and their two children live in a small town in western Wisconsin, where he has pastored Grace Baptist Church (Boyceville, WI) since 2000. Prior to serving as a pastor, Aaron taught school in Stone Mountain, Georgia and worked in customer service and technical support for Unisys Corporation (Eagan, MN). He enjoys science fiction, music, and dabbling in software development.

Discussion

Pastor Monte,

What do you do when someone in your church comes to you and says, “There’s a bunch of people who don’t like your preaching/leadership/style/haircut. They’re not comfortable talking to you about it, but I just thought you should know.”

-------
Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)

Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA

Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University

Greg: In 23 years of pastoral ministry, that has never happened. If I hear of an individual who is concerned about something, I go to that person. If they don’t want to reveal who they are, I consider the facts of the problem as I understand them and upon them (or not) as I think I should. If I think a problem is arising in the church, I address it firmly from the pulpit. SI is a not a church. It is an information website. It is in the best interest of the website to understand what its constituency or potential constituency is thinking. If they’re thinking negatively, it is the decision of the owner to act as he will with that information. The resturant I ate at last night had me fill out a survey of my opinion. They’re interested in how I felt as a customer. That is legitimate. I had no idea that sharing the true attitude of my friends about SI would engender such discussion.

It was my perception that the SI staff was interested in finding out what people are thinking about the site. I have accurately shared the attitudes of my ministry brethren. That’s all. I certainly don’t want to offend anyone or unnecessarily hurt anyone’s feelings. It was my thought that the SI management wanted to know the information I shared. I’m just trying to be a blessing!

Just clinging to my guns and religion... www.faithbaptistavon.com

Here at SI and in other places, I believe there are many of us who simply do not believe that was it being passed off as “old school” fundamentalism is truly from the old school. In the old days of fundamentalism, there was a greater spirit of unity in spite of differences. Some of the people that claim “old school” today just do not believe you can have the unity that existed in early fundamentalism.

[MMonte] It is in the best interest of the website to understand what its constituency or potential constituency is thinking
Yes. And we’ve given folks lots of opportunities to communicate. Until they do, the whole matter is moot.

I’m not going to chase ghosts.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

What I have always appreciated about SI is how there is a level field here. We speak to each other as equals. That doesn’t mean some of us may have more education or less education, more experience or less experience, more disernment or less, etc… However, as we interact our comments have to stand on their own reasoning and consistency. Yes there are times others will respond wrongly to me, or I will respond wrongly to others….but then a brother or sister or moderator will challenge me privatly (or not) and then I have a chance to grow in my communication skills. Yes, it’s often messy - but then again we are often messy. It’s part of hanging with the body of Christ. I appreciate Bob and Monty in that they speak on behalf of some men who scoff at SI. I don’t know that I’ve ever disagreed with Monty. I have disagreed often with Bob. But at least they’re here. As a matter of fact they demonstrate they care for the SI community in that they participate. I would ask especially Monty to encourage those brothers to get an account with us and share from time to time. They don’t have to do it every day. For that matter they could just share once in a while. If they really love us and think that we as a group should be more Biblically-oriented or clear-headed, why not risk whatever it is that they feel they risk and share that with us? Frankly it adds to the SI community to have a variety of views…If truth is effective, why not throw their hat in the ring instead of boycot? I can’t judge the motive of why a brother would not participate here and then complain about SI, but I suspect that more than a few leaders are not used to the playing field that SI is. Some who don’t like us are used to coming into a room and automatically have a “higher standing” because they have done this or that, or they knew he or she, or because they are so-in-so. That smacks of elitism - of course only God knows the heart. Let me speak about a different group of SI critics. Warning - I’m going to really step on the end of a branch for a few of you….let me be….dare I say….psychological for just a moment. SI represents a new “feel” in a cyber-oriented community. Like it or not - agree with it or not - SI has been the face of “young fundamentalism” in the eyes of many. Change is hard, especially for those who relish the “good ol’ days.” My guess is - when I’m Bob’s age, I’ll have the same kind of reservations others in his group might have towards a new “group” or new “feel” like SI has to come off to some of these brothers that Monty refers to. I think what would help us is to speak with respect about dear brothers who truly love the Lord, love his body but who have reservations about what SI is. If they never come to a place of wanting to participate here we ought to reach out to them as much as we can in our private sphere’s of fellowship. The only way they will find out that we are indeed not liberal, not the newest edition of Billy Graham or not whatever…..is for them to get to know us. The only way that’s usually going to happen is for us to reach out to them. My experience has been that usually they will meet you for coffee and once they get to know and trust you, it’s a better picture. In other words nothing is helped when we react to SI critics with an equal critical spirit. Let’s assume the best. Let’s also remember this. Many of these older men remember that newevangelicalism of the 50’s created theological confusion like Daniel Fuller. NE and other break-offs (at least in there minds) from what they know as fundamentalism often resulted in compromised Christianity. Can we not for one moment respect those fears? I think we can and must! It frankly is OK for these men to warn younger men of what has happened in the past. It frankly is stupid for those of us who are younger to ignore the wisdom of older men who love us and love the Lord. You don’t have to agree with everything they say, but we better listen to what they say. A few thoughts. At 42 I’m starting to ramble…..hmmmm.

Straight Ahead!

jt

ps - As Joe noted we really should pass the cider and break some bread together around the campfire. Nothing better than the koinonia man!

Dr. Joel Tetreau serves as Senior Pastor, Southeast Valley Bible Church (sevbc.org); Regional Coordinator for IBL West (iblministry.com), Board Member & friend for several different ministries;

[Joel] we really should pass the cider
Leave it to Tetreau… Somehow at SI, it always comes down to Music, Separation, Bible Versions, and ALCOHOL… :D

Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN

I think this comment section provides a good microcosm of fundamentalism as it stands today. Someone presents an opinion on an issue and everyone draws their knives to attack them. The arguing and bickering here and with the article associated with the Central Seminary Ethos statement demonstrate why many younger folks are not satisfied with fundamentalism as it has been the last 30 years - it seems to be more about who we don’t like than what we are for. Why does there have to be so much emotion and anger in every comment thread on this site? Why can’t we focus our arguments on what the Scriptures say and stop the petty bickering?

[Pastor Marc Monte] Greg: In 23 years of pastoral ministry, that has never happened. If I hear of an individual who is concerned about something, I go to that person. If they don’t want to reveal who they are, I consider the facts of the problem as I understand them and upon them (or not) as I think I should. If I think a problem is arising in the church, I address it firmly from the pulpit. SI is a not a church. It is an information website. It is in the best interest of the website to understand what its constituency or potential constituency is thinking. If they’re thinking negatively, it is the decision of the owner to act as he will with that information. The resturant I ate at last night had me fill out a survey of my opinion. They’re interested in how I felt as a customer. That is legitimate. I had no idea that sharing the true attitude of my friends about SI would engender such discussion.

It was my perception that the SI staff was interested in finding out what people are thinking about the site. I have accurately shared the attitudes of my ministry brethren. That’s all. I certainly don’t want to offend anyone or unnecessarily hurt anyone’s feelings. It was my thought that the SI management wanted to know the information I shared. I’m just trying to be a blessing!
I don’t mean to interrupt, but Greg preempted me. All I have to say is, Wow. In less than a decade of pastoral ministry, that has happened quite a few times to me. Perhaps this is due to different styles of leadership; I don’t really know. All I know is that it is maddeningly frustrating, and I would appreciate an older, seasoned pastor to share some wisdom on this. What do I do? Should I ignore it completely until people have the guts to speak to me face-to-face? Should I take it at face value and act accordingly? Should I give a shotgun blast in the next sermon, hoping to hit those who are disaffected? Should I politely encourage my informer to a) deliver a message for me, b) bring one of the “offendees” to meet with me, or c) stop listening to gossip? And what do I do when I find out - as I have in the past - that the “some people” of whom I am being informed, really only amount to 2 or 3? (Please take these as sincere questions.)

And so, I want to question you about these men. They are upset about SI and the segment of fundamentalism represented here, but they have not addressed “us?” Why not? I know you said that they were afraid of being shouted down, and others have examined that bit of reasoning. But I want to know: have they just given up? Surely they desire God’s glory through the preachers and Christians and families represented here, but they believe that we have forsaken the old paths. If SI matters so much to them that they feel the need to discuss it, then why won’t they step up and try to make a difference?

I don’t mean to be jumping into the fray and taking the place of others; I just want to know more about your friends. I’m pastoring in a lone outpost (of fundamentalism) in SW Alabama, and I have questions, thoughts, and ideas. SI has been a great place to challenge my assumptions, question my conclusions, and encourage different tracks of thought. Frankly, it’s discouraging to hear of so many brothers who disapprove of the general trend of my generation but will not share their wisdom. So, who are these guys? What help do they offer?

Faith is obeying when you can't even imagine how things might turn out right.

I said in an earlier post:
[Jay C.] I do recall someone writing a letter from “Richard Clearwaters” and passing it off as their own, which got them into trouble, but SI actively defaming godly men of the past? I don’t think so. It certainly isn’t planned or discussed by the mods/admin team.
Someone who is no longer a member here pointed out that what I wrote didn’t jibe with http://sharperiron.org/article/lets-get-clear#comment-11042] what Aaron said on the matter . I don’t exactly recall the whole ordeal (it took place in March), but I’m glad that this person brought it to my attention. Aaron is correct and that the attribution of the “letter” wasn’t as much of an issue for the admin / mod team, but the tone and personal attacks contained in it were. I know that I felt it wasn’t clear enough that the letter was written by another person (not Clearwaters); the personal tone was something that others (rightly) picked up on and that wound up being the ‘actionable’ offense.

So in any case, I was wrong, and I’d like to thank the person who pointed it out. Kudos to you.

edit - fixed link.

"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells

It is interesting to me to read this discussion through in one setting. Let me first say that I enjoy reading SI. I do not post much because of the time that it takes, but I enjoy reading the discussion that goes on, and I appreciate the owner and moderators and all that they do - thank you!

I think it is important to remember why Sharper Iron was started. When Jason put together the survey and announced the blog at the conference many years ago now, the whole purpose was to give young fundamentalists and place to go to discuss ideas and their thoughts. My take on it was that at the time it was really hard for the YF‘ers to have an opportunity to share their concerns about the movement (especially without being told to sit down and be quiet because we were too young to understand). So is it a surprise that there are some of the “Old Guard” that don’t like SI? Greg (or another original) can give a better history lesson than I, but I do think that it is important to remember why it is that this site was started.

Bob, this is a good point. Hadn’t been thinking about part of it much for a while. There’s no question that my generation and younger have grown up hearing defense after defense of fundamentalism and much finger pointing at all others and almost never any honest looking in the mirror. To the degree that there is a generational correlation to the willingness to do that, SI’s going to appeal to “younger generations.”
I think this comment section provides a good microcosm of fundamentalism as it stands today. Someone presents an opinion on an issue and everyone draws their knives to attack them. The arguing and bickering here and with the article associated with the Central Seminary Ethos statement demonstrate why many younger folks are not satisfied with fundamentalism as it has been the last 30 years - it seems to be more about who we don’t like than what we are for. Why does there have to be so much emotion and anger in every comment thread on this site? Why can’t we focus our arguments on what the Scriptures say and stop the petty bickering?
Andrew, you’re welcome to your opinion of course, but I don’t see much petty bickering in this thread. There are others with a good bit more of what I’d put in that category. But when you have open discussion on controversial subjects, sometimes you’ll have some thoughtful debate, sometimes some ‘petty bickering’ and often a mix.

But in this case, the disagreements are over fairly important questions, so “bickering” might sometimes fit, but not “petty.”

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

In response to my appeal to hear from the alleged older generation who are displeased by SI, I have received two messages. One was actually a guy my age who had a legitimate complaint about a particular poster (not a moderator). So I’m not sure that one counts. The other was an anonymous (yes, you can send messages anonymously via the contact form, though it’s not preferred) list of concerns. Much of the list was predicated on misunderstandings about the nature of a discussion forum and the nature of the “Filings” news column. But, being anonymous, it left me with no means of explaining anything or even asking for clarification.

But, in any case, the response hasn’t exactly been overwhelming.

The invitation is still open.

I remain skeptical there are many in the category Marc has described. The “older generation” fundamentalists I know of are pretty courageous guys.

I’m sure there are many of all ages who are “not fans” of the site or of Internet interaction in general, but that’s not the same thing.

About Filings, though—it’s a news column. These are items that various members of the team believe might be of interest and potentially helpful to know. Nothing that appears there should be assumed to be “promoted.” For quite some time, there’s been a little “about” link next to the column header. It reads…
SharperIron Filings are links to bits of news around the world and the “blogosphere.” The items linked to are not published by SI and do not necessarily express the opinions of anyone at SharperIron. They’re chosen because we believe they may be of interest to SI readers.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

If Fundamentalism was and is a defense of http://sharperiron.org/fundamentalist] the foundational principles of the Christian faith and … separation from apostasy , then our focus should be on sound doctrine, and not ‘protecting’ a movement, college, mission board or fellowship. It doesn’t really matter what you call yourself if what you stand for at its core doesn’t line up with Scripture. I think that kind of protectionism is what brought the need for SI and similar blogs/forums. I’ve heard “Sit down, shut up, and obey without question” nearly all my life. This isn’t Biblical or healthy- but it sure helps some folks maintain a nice standard of living. When any legitimate question is interpreted as a betrayal, heresy, or rebellion, then IMO it’s time to walk away, because that person or ministry is obviously not interested in ministering, but maintaining their status quo.
http://sharperiron.org/about-si] Our mission is to sharpen our fellow Christians through articles and forum discussions, providing ideas and news from a Christian, biblical, fundamentalist worldview. We desire to bring fundamentalist Christian brothers and sisters together for mutual edification.

SI is a meeting place… SI is a fundamentalist place. We welcome readers of every kind, but remember that SI is about how fundamentalists see the world. We differ from many evangelicals in that we believe in separating from error to preserve the pure gospel.
So- what are the mechanics of accomplishing this? If someone registers at SI, all they have to do is agree to the DS and CP. It seems folks prefer the DS remain rather broad so that controversial ideas can be discussed freely. But the minute you do that, someone starts complaining that SI is promoting apostasy. But if we were to narrow the DS so that membership was severely limited, there would be very little to discuss.

Proof of how difficult this balance is to supply or maintain is to watch other forums. There are some that claim to be Fundy that look more like virtual mud-wrestling than serious doctrinal debate, Christ-honoring fellowship, or friendly sharpening. Others are limited to a specific audience- such as forums for full-time pastors or ministry wives- which is fine because it suits their purpose, but it makes it very easy to control the board, while others simply delete any comment they don’t like, manipulating the posts and responses to make it appear that some kind of majority supports their opinions. But Sharper Iron publishes every single comment that doesn’t violate the DS or CP, whether that post is critical of SI or not. Try that somewhere else, and see how far it gets you- and then ask yourself who is and isn’t being honest. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php] http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused002.gif

Sometimes I think that everyone wants an omelet for breakfast, but no one wants to crack the eggs.

But Sharper Iron publishes every single comment that doesn’t violate the DS or CP, whether that post is critical of SI or not.
Gang, if this wasn’t true, some of posts on this thread wouldn’t be here anymore, and they would have been gone within hours, if not minutes.

Just saying.

"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells

I’d just tweak Jay’s Susan’s statement a little and insert “we believe” before “doesn’t violate.” There are some that I’ve unpublished myself that, looking back now, I think, “It seemed like a violation at the time… not so sure now. Probably should have let it go.”

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php] http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-fc/ohwell.gif

Live and learn.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.