A Few Answers to SharperIron Critics
Should we answer critics or ignore them? Though critics should not be lumped in with fools too hastily, Proverbs 26:4-5 might be of some help in answering this question. Apparently, sometimes we should not answer fools, but sometimes we should. Given the number of leadership experts who say, “Never answer the critics because…” as well as the number who say, “You have to answer your critics because…,” I’m guessing that what’s true of fools is also true of critics in this case: sometimes we shouldn’t answer them, but sometimes we should.
Of course, we should listen to our critics first and weigh their criticism. But when listening to a critic reveals a consistent pattern of factual error (and more than a little evidence of malice), further listening is poor stewardship of our time. That narrows the options to “tuning out” or responding.
Public criticism over an extended period of time narrows the options even further. The likelihood increases that people unfamiliar with the facts will encounter accusations and believe them. Actual damage could occur.
Eventually the question is no longer if we should answer the critics but how to answer them without further empowering them—or perhaps, how to answer them in a way that empowers them less than not answering them! One good way might be to target falsehoods without specifically targeting their source.
So here goes. In most cases, these are criticisms that have been leveled publicly against SI or the team for many months, but some more recent accusations receive attention here as well. I’ll put them all in question form.
Is SharperIron going to go under financially?
Sure—doesn’t everything eventually? But the site has not asked for money in over a year. Last August we had a fund drive to pay for 2009’s server costs. As we enter the third quarter of 2010, we’ve no need to do that this year. But what does that prove, either way? Sometimes the wicked prosper (Ps. 37:7) and sometimes the faithful languish (pretty much the whole book of Jeremiah) and sometimes vice versa.
Did SharperIron misrepresent its membership total?
In May of 2009, the membership database had over 4,000 accounts, many of which had been inactive for quite some time. On June 1, 2009, the site went live with new software we nicknamed “3.0.” Due to unexpected data migration problems, we couldn’t get those accounts into the new software in any timely way. So we gave up and asked everyone to register again. From that point on, we had two membership databases. The old one is still on the server.
For some time after June of ‘09, the membership reporting page still had the old ballpark number of 4,000. At some point, I updated the page with more precise wording distinguishing between the two databases. Now we just report the number in the new database (at this moment, 1,387).
To one critic, having the original “4,000” out there for a while was both dishonest and criminal. And more precise reporting as we continued the transition wasn’t good enough either. But one fact remains: the night before we went to “3.0,” SharperIron, LLC owned a database with more than 4,000 member accounts, and after the move it still owned that database—and still owns it today. “SharperIron 3.0” was a nickname for new software, not the name of a new organization. “3.0” does not have members and never will.
I’m still waiting for the FTC to prosecute me for my crimes. But I’m not holding my breath.
Do the SharperIron team members (publisher, moderators, etc.) beat up on non-calvinists?
I’ve been publicly accused (recently by name) of doing this. I’m tempted to offer a cash reward for anyone who can find a thread where I attacked someone for not being a Calvinist or for expressing views contrary to Calvinism. I don’t think I’ve ever even claimed to be a Calvinist. Since some of the critics seem to have too much time on their hands, I invite them to see if they can find any place where I declared my views on Calvinism. It’s possible that I’ve done that somewhere, but it would take a while to find.
In reference to the team, the situation is a little more complex. Many of the team members are more Calvinistic than not, and in the area of Calvinist soteriology, some are very passionate about their beliefs on one point or several. But that’s OK. At SharperIron, the moderators are allowed to have opinions and express them. We’ve officially said so in the “About” information (though it could probably be made clearer), and that’s been standard practice here since SI launched in 2005.
For the record, Arminians (and neither-nor’s!) are welcome here. The doctrinal statement does not exclude them and we’ve never banned anyone for those views. You will find that Arminian or anti-Calvinist views are greeted with passionate rebuttals, but you are welcome to offer passionate counter-rebuttals.
To any non-Calvinist who is being ganged up on at any time: contact me and cry foul. I can’t really help it if the ratio is such that you’re outnumbered—the membership is open in that regard—but we’ve no desire to gang up on anyone. If you’re a non-Calvinist and want more folks standing with you, recruit some buddies to join the site.
Is SharperIron in love with the conservative evangelicals?
That sort of depends on whether you’re talking about the membership, the readership or the leadership. Members are all over the map on that one. Judging from the ‘09-‘10 reader survey, readers would be even more so. But that accusation is often targeted at the site leadership. Where do we stand?
I feel kind of silly answering this because I think the answer is obvious. But not everybody reads the forum threads, and some apparently read every fifth word or so (just enough to get things completely wrong). The attitude of everybody on the team that I’ve seen comment on the subject is that the McArthur, Mohler, Dever, Carson, Piper, Mahaney, etc. crowd has accomplished some really good things and appears destined to continue to do that. We appreciate much of these men’s work. I don’t know of anyone on the team who would deny that these men have some problems theologically and/or in their practice of separation. The “CEs” are not all the same, so it’s hard to generalize beyond that.
But in discussions about seeking closer ties with these leaders—and others like them—my own response has been pretty consistently tepid. I continue to not really understand why some are so passionate about seeking that kind of “emerging middle.” I’m not for lumping the CEs in with apostates, but my imagination doesn’t seem to be up to the task of envisioning what benefit there would be in “closer ties” (whatever exactly that means). I don’t see much to gain for fundamentalists, for the conservative evangelicals or for the body of Christ as whole. Since I’m not a believer in “bigger is better,” I tend to see larger coalitions as more dramatic but not more productive in any eternal sense.
“In love with the CEs”? Well, I don’t hate them. Maybe to the critics, that’s the same thing.
Has Aaron described the site as being for “fundamentalists of the conservative evangelical variety”?
I have to smile at that one. There’s a little switcheroo misquote there. In a few places I have described the site as being for, or consisting of, “conservative evangelicals of the fundamentalist variety.” I think in one place I went with “conservative evangelicals of the kind known historically as fundamentalists,” but that was pretty clunky. The aim in those descriptions is to help folks who know nothing at all about fundamentalism get some idea what the term means in reference to the site.
Since all who believe and promote the gospel are evangelicals (the term derives from euangelion, the Greek word for “gospel”), the site is certainly for evangelicals. Since our constituents are more conservative than most who claim the gospel, we’re also certainly conservative evangelicals. But since we’re also particular about separation (with varying understandings of the principle), we are in yet another subset: one called fundamentalists.
Maybe a diagram would be of some help.
Does the SI team unfairly moderate people they disagree with?
I don’t think we’ve ever had a “How we can moderate less fairly?” meeting. It’s our aim to be fair, and we put a lot of effort into looking for good balances, but we’d have to be fools to think we’re always successful. Sometimes the truth in a situation seems quite clear at the moment but looks very different a few days or weeks later. Sometimes the only thing that is clear is that we ought to intervene in a discussion, but we can’t work out among us what form that intervention should take. So sometimes we just have to pick an option and go for it, and hope for the best.
Everybody sees things through the filter of his or her own sympathies and prejudices. This is true of moderators but also of members posting in threads. So it’s all too easy for someone to believe he “got reffed” when a foul is called against him.
Interestingly, the most aggressive critic of our moderating efforts routinely and unilaterally removes—or refuses to post—comments at his own site if he doesn’t like what they say. At SI, your comment posts first and if there are issues, a team discusses them. Through that counsel, we seek to make wise choices.
We’re always looking for ways to do things better. One persistent goal is nurturing healthy tension while simultaneously reining in inappropriate or clearly unhelpful statements. But it’s an art, and none of us claim to be Michelangelo.
Conclusion
SI is not constantly under attack. As far as I know, the site’s enemies are few, and critics of the distorting or dishonest sort are even fewer. I don’t get angry phone calls (which kind of surprises me—but I certainly don’t mind!). If there are a whole lot of folks who think we’re a Very Bad Thing, they don’t seem to go out of their way to say so. To the few who seem determined to sling mud: well, sling if you must. I’m not slinging back—but occasionally we will rinse off a bit.
Aaron Blumer, SI’s site publisher, is a native of lower Michigan and a graduate of Bob Jones University (Greenville, SC) and Central Baptist Theological Seminary (Plymouth, MN). He, his wife, and their two children live in a small town in western Wisconsin, where he has pastored Grace Baptist Church (Boyceville, WI) since 2000. Prior to serving as a pastor, Aaron taught school in Stone Mountain, Georgia and worked in customer service and technical support for Unisys Corporation (Eagan, MN). He enjoys science fiction, music, and dabbling in software development.
- 53 views
I think some comments could be worded better, and I can think back to things I’ve said that weren’t prudent or charitable, and probably detracted from instead of forwarding the discussion. But I empathize with the frustration of others when they speak of power-mongering and ring-kissing by some of the celebrities of Fundamentalism- I’ve been in churches where it is regularly preached that you shut your mouth and obey the pastor, even if he tells you to stand on your head and spit wooden nickels, that the whoever is standing at the ‘sacred desk’ is God’s anointed and is beyond any form of criticism, etc… This is not Scriptural in any way, shape, or form, and allows for seriously dysfunctional churches to continue to control and intimidate their members into conforming instead of experiencing sanctification wrought by the work of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.
Perhaps we should ask ourselves sometimes if we aren’t doing the exact thing we despise so much in others. If we are upset about name-calling and intimidation, then we shouldn’t engage in it. If someone is preaching/teaching heresy, then we should deal with the doctrinal issues without all the sarcasm and insults, veiled and otherwise. Ack- that’s a toughy for me. Sarcasm is deeply embedded into my programming. Oy vey.
Something else that always catches my eye is when folks accuse someone of ‘being fooled by’ so-and-so whenever they give credit for or appreciate the insight of an author, preacher, ministry leader, etc. who isn’t a staunch Fundamentalist. I just can’t wrap my mind around that, because I feel like I learn something new every day from authors and speakers and pundits and bloggers, some of whom are not even saved… so how can I say I’ve learned from men and women who aren’t regenerate, but then toss Piper, McCarthur, Colson, etc. out the window because they aren’t our definition of Fundamentalist? There are many men of good character, who have wisdom and experience to share, but may be off in some area like cessationism or dispensationalism- why should I not absorb what is helpful and disregard what isn’t? I’m certainly not going to recommend a preacher who is has serious doctrinal issues to a young Christian who doesn’t know how to discern, but why not acknowledge what someone says that is helpful, point out what isn’t, and then go out for coffee and doughnuts and get on with life? Sometimes I picture the scowling face of someone who I perceive as hyper-critical and I want to say “Be careful or your face will freeze that way”. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php] http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-angry051.gif
[Steve Davis] I’m right and will start my own movement - righterism!Steve, it has a nice ring to it. :D (You might even pick up a few who think it’s about politics!)
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
This site would never exist if “old school” fundamentalists were its administrators. While it might be their perception that old schoolers are treated with disdain (I do not believe this is the case, rather the willingness and responsibility to address past indiscretions and damaging beliefs and practices that were simply verboten to approach in the past is what has taken place because old schoolers were unwilling to do so) I am confident that many voices would be trampled and silenced, again, if they were the administrators. Old schoolers (whoever you are and I could be one of them for all I know) , I encourage you to post your thoughts and be willing to argue your cases which, if done effectively will enlighten other believers and if not be willing to admit to the weaknesses of your views and consider admitting you could be wrong.
Age. Age is not a license to demand people respect you or to treat younger people with condescension. I find often, that those who attempt to use trump cards to demand respect are the least willing to give it. But it does remain that maturity must be held with esteem. However, those of you who consider yourself “older”, you are to never use your age as a weapon for demands and when valid and serious thoughts are presented by youngers you are to treat them just as that, serious and valid without condescending remarks about their youth. There might be a time for a remark about one’s youth but not at such a point. And SI, it appears, does attempt to give voice to all adults. I did, unfortunately, read one moderator/administrator who considered anyone twenty years younger than himself a kid (which would make those having entered adulthood and even early grandparenting ages a “kid”!) which I believe reflects the attitude above in a certain way, but overall SI appears to do a good job of avoiding this kind of prejudice. But let me say again, it does remain that maturity must be held with esteem.
Susan is the best experience I have had with moderators in my years online on discussion boards. Her objectivity exceeds her counterparts and it is clear her desire to remain unbiased and unilateral is always present in her moderation. BTW, from my experience you have a great deal of latitude in PMs with moderators in expressing your discontent or praise as long as you are not inappropriate in your language. They may not agree with you and I personally do not view it as very likely anything will be done in your favor in protesting a moderator’s decisions but I have never had a moderator PM me back with the threat of being expelled because I expressed my dislike for something.
SI is fundie. The site is exceptional with respect to fundie sites and probably CE sites. SI is faithful to attempting give a hearing to all legitimate Christian voices that may contribute to our welfare. There are some cases of heavy moderation I do believe have pushed some people away. This probably is an inescapable reality of discussion boards. Maybe thicker hides on some that left might help. I did not see any specific case or admission of failure by SI in answering their critics, that is they defended themselves but aside from the general or generic “yeah we have made some mistakes” no admission of specific failures was forthcoming, that was disappointing. It might be due to a certain rule with this kind of forum that it is best such admissions are made privately or only when the event occurs. Thanks for SI Aaron and those who administrate and moderate.
-------
Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)
Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA
Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University
[Don Johnson]Don, sorry to barge in. I know you were addressing this to Pastor Joe.[Pastor Joe Roof] Clarification on disrespecting older preachers - I’m not sure I have seen this here. Any attempt at disrespect has been moderated from what I understand. Most people I know on SI have a great respect for godly older preachers.Hmmm… please re-read post #46 in this thread and ask if its language is respectful or disrespectful? Or try #47 and #48.
Not that I am personally frustrated by this or the job Aaron et al are doing. But you say you haven’t seen disrespect for older preachers here? Man, open your eyes!
Surely you must admit that “old school” is about style, method, and philosophy, not about how old they are? There are lots of guys who are younger in age who are Old School Fundamentalists (tradition-driven, enforcement-minded, ghost-dancing for the “glory days” of Fundamentalism). And there are lots of older guys (myself included) who want nothing to do with that stuff who are still loyal to the TRUE fundamentals of the faith and who are willing to do “battle royal” for them — without separating over issues of little import.
[Greg Long] GregH, do you think the Bible is wrong to compare some people to fools? Do you ever think it is appropriate for us to do so?You make my point very well.
[GregH]He did? ‘Cause I don’t get it- how did he make your point, and why didn’t you just answer his question?[Greg Long] GregH, do you think the Bible is wrong to compare some people to fools? Do you ever think it is appropriate for us to do so?You make my point very well.
Maybe I just need more coffee. And another pancake…
Regarding the second question, yes call people fools if you want. But you had better be very careful about it. And if you want to make friends, have influence, and/or have a successful site, you will find another way to do it.
Let me be clear. Everyone that criticizes SI is not a fool. The introduction of that comparison into this debate was a mistake. And continuing to defend that comparison is a mistake. It is over the top.
[GregH] The right tone should almost always be apologetic. Admit your real problems without sarcasm and jabs, ask for clarification gently (mostly privately), and ask for further suggestions. People respect that and they give second chances.I think the key word there is “almost.” As for asking for clarification… there would need to be something unclear to ask for clarification of.
There isn’t in this case. You also seem to be assuming that there hasn’t been all sorts of private back and forth. Believe me, a great deal of that has occurred for many months.
This piece is not a first-stage response, but a last stage one. A step not even considered until parties involved proved quite conclusively that they would not be factual and fair.
There is some intentional edge here and there in the piece. There is nothing biblical about pretending the absurd is reasonable.
Surely we can agree that sometimes people make absurd accusations? The piece has the weakness of not including the kind of detail that would make the absurdities more apparent. That was a necessary trade off, because I wanted to avoid further empowering those involved as well as avoid making the piece a counter-attack. The aim here, rather, was to lay out some facts and bring the truth into very sharp contrast with the false accusations in a few places.
[GregH] Aaron, when you start this comparing your critics to fools (not directly but certainly introducing that comparison), you can hardly expect things to go well. But I think your tone has improved considerably through this thread from the original post. In fact, I am very encouraged by many of the things that have been said since that.Glad to hear that. Hopefully I’m not undoing too much of that with this post. 2Cor. is pretty clear that we ought not to suffer fools gladly. But the point of the fool reference was to argue by analogy that sometimes you should answer and sometimes not. Felt I needed to briefly make that case because people have strong opinions about whether public critics should be answered or not. I didn’t want to write the whole piece about that question in particular, but felt the need to explain my take on it at least before diving in to an answering effort.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
There is some talk that comments were initially closed but I’m not aware of that ever being the case. Nobody on the team is aware of that switch ever being flipped, so I’m just asking to see if there were any technical issues we didn’t notice.
Comments are open by default here so they aren’t closed on an article unless someone intentionally disables that or some technical glitch occurs (I’ve never seen a glitch close comments though)
Edit: Got an email from one observer who said that the button for commenting was not appearing for a while. However, we do have a test post in the thread timestamped 8:13 am (Central), so it was open at least by then, if not before.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
[Mike Durning] Surely you must admit that “old school” is about style, method, and philosophy, not about how old they are?Of course.
All I am pointing out is that disrespect isn’t foreign to these here parts.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
I have seent his both ways. Many older Fundamentalists have shown nothing but contempt for the younger. Some of them want people to follow them because they have earned the right. None of us have earned the right to not answer questions. None of us have earned the right to not give a Biblical response to our resuppositions. When we are questioned, we are all guilty of this and I think this is part of the reason we have seen this divide. Neither the YF or the OF have a corner on being right. We both blow it from time to time and often never repent of it. That needs to change.
Roger Carlson, PastorBerean Baptist Church
When the old database went offline at the end of May, 2009:
- 4595 member accounts existed in the database*
- 1851 member accounts had logged on since 6/1/08
- 572 accounts had posted since 6/1/08
- 2939 accounts had never posted any comments since 2005
- 907 accounts had posted more than 5 comments since 2005
To compare 6/1/09 to 6/1/10: we’re all aware that posting activity was down over the year before (though I don’t have a number) and we know about 1300 people logged on.
So what does this prove? Not much. In a year where we asked everybody to create a new account, about 500 less actually created one than had one and used it (in the sense of “logged on to the site”) in the preceding year. Given that many of those with accounts never post, there is a percentage of those who had accounts in ‘08-‘09 and logged on who are still reading the site in ‘09-‘10 but have not made a new account.
And the trend since 6/1/09 (which started at all zeros pretty much) as been increasing forum activity and growing membership.
I kind of doubt we’re going to see 4595 again. We have no spam accounts, have more membership requirements than before, and are no longer the “amazing new thing” we were in 2005 (it did take about 4 yrs to get to 4595 even then).
To those who say the site is in decline: that’s certainly possible, but no huge shift occurred in ‘09. And I think a more likely evaluation is that we’ve moved out of our adolescence and are entering “middle age.”
But I’m personally not numbers driven. I never even ran these particular reports until today, and rarely look at any report that isn’t automatically generated. Other things being equal, of course, we’d love to see the site grow like a noxious weed, but I’m not personally interested in seeing it be a noxious weed in order to accomplish that!
The forums have definitely been going through a different stage in the last couple years while we all figured out what the culture was going to be under the new ownership (the new ownership had to figure that out, too). The sense I get from our team discussions now is that we’ve figured a whole lot of that out now and members are getting more comfortable with it as well. Time will tell.
I’ve always felt that quality is much more important than quantity, but I believe the quantity will continue to slowly increase for a while yet (and we have a number of very interesting ideas brewing.)
It may be that eventually we’ll want to actually advertise the site a little.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
[rogercarlson] I hope I was clear earlier. I have seen disrespect of older Fundamentalists and it was wrong (and I have said so). Bob said it well ealier. It is sad when someone who is 80 is not treated with respect.This was actually the thought I took away from http://sharperiron.org/article/few-answers-to-sharperiron-critics#comme…] James K’s post , even though he used very strong language to convey his thoughts. I can certainly understand that, having experienced the spiritual blackmail prevalent in some branches of Fundamentalism (as in other places because we are talking about a foible of human nature here, not something endemic to IFBism). I can’t see respecting a man who uses his education, status, reputation, or age to manipulate, dominate, and control others. I think it is fine to call someone on the carpet or warn others when they exhibit the kind of behavior condemned in 1 Cor. 5:11 and yet expect to escape accountability because of their age, status, or the good they did 15, 20, 30 years ago.
I have seent his both ways. Many older Fundamentalists have shown nothing but contempt for the younger. Some of them want people to follow them because they have earned the right. None of us have earned the right to not answer questions. None of us have earned the right to not give a Biblical response to our resuppositions. When we are questioned, we are all guilty of this and I think this is part of the reason we have seen this divide. Neither the YF or the OF have a corner on being right. We both blow it from time to time and often never repent of it. That needs to change.
The people who run this Bible-based site do not have to apologize for using Bible verses to describe conduct. The Bible is not a PC, sensitive book written with the goal of selling Rolex watches and compact cars in mind. And though I am not a KJV-Only sort, one of the reasons why I am “KJV-preferred” is because I hate how the newer translations have softened the language to make things seem “not so bad.” But allow me to say that a lot of the agenda-driven axe-grinding that goes on at SI and in the Christian blogosphere in general DEFINITELY falls under Proverbs 26:4-5. The Proverbs 26:4-5 shoe fits a lot of people, and they either need to wear it or change their conduct so that they can take it off. It isn’t the person who wields Proverbs 26:4-5 and uses it to correct someone that needs to be careful, it’s the person who is acting that way and being corrected that needs the caution. Because it doesn’t stop with people not wanting to be called a fool. People don’t want to be called fornicators, adulterers, liars, witches, idolaters, murderers, heretics, apostates … you name it.
Incidentally, Aaron never claimed that everyone who criticized SI was a fool. And it was your claim that Aaron ever did so that was not only a mistake, but an attempt to bully Aaron and take advantage of his confrontation-averse nature into abandoning his position and use of scripture. This isn’t some site for people looking for Joel Osteen “Your Best Life Now” or Joyce Meyer “Enjoying Everyday Life” nonsense where the ONLY thing that is ever challenged is “those narrow-minded, judgmental Pharisee fundamentalists!” We should not be declaring applications of Bible texts off limits just because the strong language hurts people’s feelings.
Solo Christo, Soli Deo Gloria, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura http://healtheland.wordpress.com
Discussion