A Few Answers to SharperIron Critics

Should we answer critics or ignore them? Though critics should not be lumped in with fools too hastily, Proverbs 26:4-5 might be of some help in answering this question. Apparently, sometimes we should not answer fools, but sometimes we should. Given the number of leadership experts who say, “Never answer the critics because…” as well as the number who say, “You have to answer your critics because…,” I’m guessing that what’s true of fools is also true of critics in this case: sometimes we shouldn’t answer them, but sometimes we should.

Of course, we should listen to our critics first and weigh their criticism. But when listening to a critic reveals a consistent pattern of factual error (and more than a little evidence of malice), further listening is poor stewardship of our time. That narrows the options to “tuning out” or responding.

Public criticism over an extended period of time narrows the options even further. The likelihood increases that people unfamiliar with the facts will encounter accusations and believe them. Actual damage could occur.

Eventually the question is no longer if we should answer the critics but how to answer them without further empowering them—or perhaps, how to answer them in a way that empowers them less than not answering them! One good way might be to target falsehoods without specifically targeting their source.

So here goes. In most cases, these are criticisms that have been leveled publicly against SI or the team for many months, but some more recent accusations receive attention here as well. I’ll put them all in question form.

Is SharperIron going to go under financially?

Sure—doesn’t everything eventually? But the site has not asked for money in over a year. Last August we had a fund drive to pay for 2009’s server costs. As we enter the third quarter of 2010, we’ve no need to do that this year. But what does that prove, either way? Sometimes the wicked prosper (Ps. 37:7) and sometimes the faithful languish (pretty much the whole book of Jeremiah) and sometimes vice versa.

Did SharperIron misrepresent its membership total?

In May of 2009, the membership database had over 4,000 accounts, many of which had been inactive for quite some time. On June 1, 2009, the site went live with new software we nicknamed “3.0.” Due to unexpected data migration problems, we couldn’t get those accounts into the new software in any timely way. So we gave up and asked everyone to register again. From that point on, we had two membership databases. The old one is still on the server.

For some time after June of ‘09, the membership reporting page still had the old ballpark number of 4,000. At some point, I updated the page with more precise wording distinguishing between the two databases. Now we just report the number in the new database (at this moment, 1,387).

To one critic, having the original “4,000” out there for a while was both dishonest and criminal. And more precise reporting as we continued the transition wasn’t good enough either. But one fact remains: the night before we went to “3.0,” SharperIron, LLC owned a database with more than 4,000 member accounts, and after the move it still owned that database—and still owns it today. “SharperIron 3.0” was a nickname for new software, not the name of a new organization. “3.0” does not have members and never will.

I’m still waiting for the FTC to prosecute me for my crimes. But I’m not holding my breath.

Do the SharperIron team members (publisher, moderators, etc.) beat up on non-calvinists?

I’ve been publicly accused (recently by name) of doing this. I’m tempted to offer a cash reward for anyone who can find a thread where I attacked someone for not being a Calvinist or for expressing views contrary to Calvinism. I don’t think I’ve ever even claimed to be a Calvinist. Since some of the critics seem to have too much time on their hands, I invite them to see if they can find any place where I declared my views on Calvinism. It’s possible that I’ve done that somewhere, but it would take a while to find.

In reference to the team, the situation is a little more complex. Many of the team members are more Calvinistic than not, and in the area of Calvinist soteriology, some are very passionate about their beliefs on one point or several. But that’s OK. At SharperIron, the moderators are allowed to have opinions and express them. We’ve officially said so in the “About” information (though it could probably be made clearer), and that’s been standard practice here since SI launched in 2005.

For the record, Arminians (and neither-nor’s!) are welcome here. The doctrinal statement does not exclude them and we’ve never banned anyone for those views. You will find that Arminian or anti-Calvinist views are greeted with passionate rebuttals, but you are welcome to offer passionate counter-rebuttals.

To any non-Calvinist who is being ganged up on at any time: contact me and cry foul. I can’t really help it if the ratio is such that you’re outnumbered—the membership is open in that regard—but we’ve no desire to gang up on anyone. If you’re a non-Calvinist and want more folks standing with you, recruit some buddies to join the site.

Is SharperIron in love with the conservative evangelicals?

That sort of depends on whether you’re talking about the membership, the readership or the leadership. Members are all over the map on that one. Judging from the ‘09-‘10 reader survey, readers would be even more so. But that accusation is often targeted at the site leadership. Where do we stand?

I feel kind of silly answering this because I think the answer is obvious. But not everybody reads the forum threads, and some apparently read every fifth word or so (just enough to get things completely wrong). The attitude of everybody on the team that I’ve seen comment on the subject is that the McArthur, Mohler, Dever, Carson, Piper, Mahaney, etc. crowd has accomplished some really good things and appears destined to continue to do that. We appreciate much of these men’s work. I don’t know of anyone on the team who would deny that these men have some problems theologically and/or in their practice of separation. The “CEs” are not all the same, so it’s hard to generalize beyond that.

But in discussions about seeking closer ties with these leaders—and others like them—my own response has been pretty consistently tepid. I continue to not really understand why some are so passionate about seeking that kind of “emerging middle.” I’m not for lumping the CEs in with apostates, but my imagination doesn’t seem to be up to the task of envisioning what benefit there would be in “closer ties” (whatever exactly that means). I don’t see much to gain for fundamentalists, for the conservative evangelicals or for the body of Christ as whole. Since I’m not a believer in “bigger is better,” I tend to see larger coalitions as more dramatic but not more productive in any eternal sense.

“In love with the CEs”? Well, I don’t hate them. Maybe to the critics, that’s the same thing.

Has Aaron described the site as being for “fundamentalists of the conservative evangelical variety”?

I have to smile at that one. There’s a little switcheroo misquote there. In a few places I have described the site as being for, or consisting of, “conservative evangelicals of the fundamentalist variety.” I think in one place I went with “conservative evangelicals of the kind known historically as fundamentalists,” but that was pretty clunky. The aim in those descriptions is to help folks who know nothing at all about fundamentalism get some idea what the term means in reference to the site.

Since all who believe and promote the gospel are evangelicals (the term derives from euangelion, the Greek word for “gospel”), the site is certainly for evangelicals. Since our constituents are more conservative than most who claim the gospel, we’re also certainly conservative evangelicals. But since we’re also particular about separation (with varying understandings of the principle), we are in yet another subset: one called fundamentalists.

Maybe a diagram would be of some help.

Does the SI team unfairly moderate people they disagree with?

I don’t think we’ve ever had a “How we can moderate less fairly?” meeting. It’s our aim to be fair, and we put a lot of effort into looking for good balances, but we’d have to be fools to think we’re always successful. Sometimes the truth in a situation seems quite clear at the moment but looks very different a few days or weeks later. Sometimes the only thing that is clear is that we ought to intervene in a discussion, but we can’t work out among us what form that intervention should take. So sometimes we just have to pick an option and go for it, and hope for the best.

Everybody sees things through the filter of his or her own sympathies and prejudices. This is true of moderators but also of members posting in threads. So it’s all too easy for someone to believe he “got reffed” when a foul is called against him.

Interestingly, the most aggressive critic of our moderating efforts routinely and unilaterally removes—or refuses to post—comments at his own site if he doesn’t like what they say. At SI, your comment posts first and if there are issues, a team discusses them. Through that counsel, we seek to make wise choices.

We’re always looking for ways to do things better. One persistent goal is nurturing healthy tension while simultaneously reining in inappropriate or clearly unhelpful statements. But it’s an art, and none of us claim to be Michelangelo.

Conclusion

SI is not constantly under attack. As far as I know, the site’s enemies are few, and critics of the distorting or dishonest sort are even fewer. I don’t get angry phone calls (which kind of surprises me—but I certainly don’t mind!). If there are a whole lot of folks who think we’re a Very Bad Thing, they don’t seem to go out of their way to say so. To the few who seem determined to sling mud: well, sling if you must. I’m not slinging back—but occasionally we will rinse off a bit.


Aaron Blumer, SI’s site publisher, is a native of lower Michigan and a graduate of Bob Jones University (Greenville, SC) and Central Baptist Theological Seminary (Plymouth, MN). He, his wife, and their two children live in a small town in western Wisconsin, where he has pastored Grace Baptist Church (Boyceville, WI) since 2000. Prior to serving as a pastor, Aaron taught school in Stone Mountain, Georgia and worked in customer service and technical support for Unisys Corporation (Eagan, MN). He enjoys science fiction, music, and dabbling in software development.

Discussion

Rather than make a knee-jerk demand for “facts” as if I’m only out to take pot shots, the moderators should consider the impression that has been left with the old guard of the IFB movement. Like it or not, there is an increasingly “great gulf fixed” between the older guys and the younger, and SI is viewed as decidedly on the same page as the younger.
If this is true, I wonder why virtually none have bothered to tell me so. But hey, today’s a new day. I’d welcome the feedback. I’ve heard from more older guys who appreciate the site than I’ve heard from these others. But gentlemen, if there are so many of you out there, use the http://sharperiron.org/contact] contact form and give me a piece of your mind.

(I really am not fond of angry phone calls, but I don’t mind angry emails at all. Fire away.)

But to be clear, I don’t doubt in the least that SI aligns better with the younger generation, generally. This is the Internet we’re talking about here. But to several of the younger guys I’ve heard from, I’m an old curmudgeon. It’s all relative I guess.

Jim… love the new profile pic. Really projects a warm, approachable personality.
[Don J] Man, are you wearing a tin-foil hat this morning, or what? Please find something serious to complain about!
I’m sure you meant that in nicest possible way. A bit of warm, comradely ribbing?

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

I’d just like to say from someone who puts the “new” in newbie, I have thoroughly enjoyed this site and am very thankful for it. The lively debates on both sides of the non-heretical coin, from a variety of perspectives, have sharpened me immensely. Honestly, I’m sometimes sharpened more by someone who differs from my point of view than someone who agrees with it. So thanks Aaron and all of the SI Admins, for using a fairly wide, non-heretical ruler to measure what should and should not be posted—both articles and comments. I can’t even begin to grasp the weight of the tasks that each of you must handle in order for this sight to run as well as it does. Blessings!

Kim Noble

Hey, Jim, thanks for listening to my concerns an for you thoughtful responses.

Aaron, I know the internet has a certain appeal to the young guys, but all the older guys I know are quite adept at using it. It’s not a generation/technology issue.

Speaking of high tech, have you seen our new website? www.faithbaptistavon.com Just one visit should prove that I value the communicative value of technology.

(Be sure to sign up for my daily devotionals, delivered to your e-mail!)

Just clinging to my guns and religion... www.faithbaptistavon.com

OK I’ve been on S/I for about 5 years (perhaps more). I’ve been a moderator for a number of years and now the Forum Director for a year and a half or so
  • Firstly I appreciate Sharper Iron. I like interacting with folk here. Have made some friends. I really appreciated the administration prior to Aaron (The Janz era … Dan Miller forum director. I met Dan for lunch one day when he was in town and we had great fellowship. I appreciate the Aaron era too. Sadly there has been one S/I member (at least) who has passed into glory (sad for us …. not for him (Larry L!)
  • Moderating. Trust me I’ve made mistakes. I hope that even in moderating I learn something and grow. Sometimes other moderators get on me … a learning experience and I appreciate them.
  • Critics: I think it is OK to criticize the moderators or Aaron. I do know this about Aaron: he has a Pastor’s heart and he is gentle. When he says contact me he means it
  • Doctrinal bias: I believe in the doctrines of grace. I don’t actually think I have ever used that as a filter to moderate someone who disagrees with me.
  • Labels: I’ve been called a FINO (Fundamentalist in name only) and a pseudo-F, Once someone called me a Lutheran. I really don’t care what folk call me because I know who I am. When I read George Dollars book years ago (the definitions of militant fundamentalist, moderate, etc.) I pegged myself as a moderate fundamentalist. I do think that the term fundamentalism has generally lost its meaning.
  • Friendship with C/E’s: I’ve read 2 Piper books. His church is in my city (near where I work). I could have joined his church when we moved here. I chose not to for several doctrinal issues (eschatology, the Toronto blessing thing years ago, etc). I joined a fundamental Baptist church
  • Lordship Salvation: Since I am laying all things bare. I actually don’t think MacArthur’s book represents my view. No time to discuss in depth now but I’ve read it several times (old edition and new edition. Some of the phraseology he uses makes me uncomfortable. But I do read John Mac and appreciate him.
By the way … as Forum Director feel free to contact me as well!

A new icon … I got rid of the old http://www.chumby.com/ Chumby icon and today turn over a new leaf … the fearsome Syndrome from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Incredibles] The Incredibles . Hopefully I will get some respect now! :)

i actually have grown b/c of si, not just the info, but learning to have a discussion and how to do it in this type of interaction.

:)

I will jump in here. As someone who has posted here for over 4 years, I do appreciate SI. There have been times where I slacked off but I am back now. I have yet to post my own article, maybe I will soon.

I thnk what Marc says should be taken seriously. But to those who agree with Marc. Especially those who don’t like the way the younger men talk to them. All should treat you graciously. But I have noticed that many older fundamentalists have not done that with the younger. Many older Fundamentalists also take being challanged on an idea as not being treated respectfully. Not only is that not fair, it’s not Biblical. We should all welcome the idea to explain our Biblical justification for why we do what we do. If in that course, we find that our ideas are not really Biblcal, we should be willing to discard them - instead of holding tradition for the sake of tradition (or because we are afraid of what man will think). I am not saying all or even most older men have done this. But some of the reaction to the crtiques of the older fundamentalists falls in this category. Bob Jones Sr was a godly man, but he was not perfect. While we all acknowledge that, it seems that if someone lays a criticism down about him (example only) he is considered a hater of the old guard.

So we younger men (I am 39) need to be gracious and respectfulto our men who are more seasoned, those same men need to be gracious and respectful to the younger. Many here have been to me (RPittman is a good example in how he has handled me), but there are others who have not. Not only to me, but other younger men. When they have been challanged on a doctrinal or even a practice, the response has been, “I am older, I know better.” That is not right either.

Susan does have a point about asking for examples. While there is often truth in perceptions, our perseptions could be wrong. I don’t doubt what Marc says about his contacts. But what is sad is that none of these men have contacted Aaron. To those who are out there that believe that this sight is so bad. You have talked about this sight at pastor’s fellowships with your concerns and not even contacted the owner? The owner who graduated from two thoroughly fundamental institutions and pastors a fundamental church? How are your actions Biblical? (Those last comments are not to Marc. They are to those who criticize Aaron and don’t even bother to talk to him about it)

I will also add that I think some of this perception is because of the medium (we can’t read facial expressions or body language). That is why we often remind each other of that here.

Roger Carlson, Pastor Berean Baptist Church

Bro.Monte- While impressions are certainly interesting and have some merit, they can only be meaningful when they have a foundation. I don’t think asking for support for one’s assertions is unreasonable, indicates defensiveness, or constitutes a “knee-jerk demand”. Most of the posts on a forum contain just that- folks providing one kind of support or other for their stand on various subjects, and those who either can’t or refuse to provide evidence aren’t taken seriously… so I’m somewhat puzzled by your response.

Bottom line- I can’t really see my way clear to entertain anonymous, secondhand opinions. I don’t know on what basis their opinions were formed, I don’t have any particulars as to their objections, and I don’t have a clue as to who they are. I’m not aware of any effort on their part to address their concerns with any of us publicly or privately. I am happy to receive correction when I know what it is I am being corrected for and on what basis. “I know this really spiritual guy who doesn’t like your attitude” isn’t particularly helpful.

BTW- None of the alcohol threads have been moved. Not sure what you’re talking about there. If a thread has moved down the column on the main Forum page or in the Foundry, you can always use the search feature. I do it all the time when I lose track of a thread, or I check my profile for a list of threads I’ve participated in.

As for the tone and/or content of posts by those on the moderating team, I answered that in post #12-
Unless a post is headed with something like “MODERATOR NOTE” or “Official Moderator Action”, then that post is simply a post by another member. It is not an oblique attempt to enforce site policy. I put my mod hat on to act as a mod, but then I take it off to post like everyone else. You are free to reply to those posts as you would with any other member.
The only posts that members are not ‘allowed’ to discuss on the forums is specific moderator action, and we have a system in place for complaints and questions.

Just another thought on the “old guard fundamentalists are unhappy with SI” idea. As a thought experiment, suppose we completely believe that. What do we do next? I have no idea what in particular bothers them or what their advice would be. In short, whether it’s true or not is still pretty much beside the point if we do not hear from them. We have to have actual advice in order to evaluate and think about changes…. and “SI has a bad reputation with group X” is not advice. It’s not information we can do anything with.

Not verifiable and contains no particulars.

Someone told me the older fundamentalists are afraid of a backlash if they speak up. Two things about that:
  • The worst thing we can to do anybody here is ban them from the site. If they aren’t commenting here anyway, there is nothing to lose by speaking up and getting banned (which wouldn’t happen anyway unless the speaking up also involves being rude and slanderous, etc.). No worse off than before.
  • The survey provided an opportunity to communicate anonymously about SI. I’ll have to go back and check the crosstabs by age (I think we still have that data), but I don’t recall seeing any displeasure with the site correlating to age.
I have heard a fair number of broadly negative comments about “blogging” from older gentlemen (and a nearly equal number of guys my own age). I take them at their word. They are against blogging, not against SI in particular (btw, several of the blog-listing outfits won’t accept SI because it does not meet their criteria for a “blog”).

Anyway, just want to repeat that if you have advice and are afraid to post it, send a message via the contact form. Suggestions we can evaluate. “A bad reputation” is not information we can use.

Edit: I have to add, though, that “old guard” fundamentalists (those still living) have never struck me as being nervous about backlashes or being shy about speaking their minds. This narrative doesn’t ring true.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

Arron, your second diagram comes through to me the way you wanted it.

Old Guard, from what I can gather, a lot of the criticism of the”old guard” is made about the OG who came out of the SBC. Much of the current OG (speaking of the FBFI and GARBC) didn’t. They did have good relations with their southern brethren. But, after l’affair Hyles and the KJVO controversy such relations became strained. IOW, the current OG didn’t go through the types of tsuris of some younger SI members. so, they don’t quite understand the stridency of some of the comments.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

Sharper Iron takes on the characteristics of its posting members and its active moderators.

Some posters are dogmatic militant Calvinists (Militant Reformed). I am not.

Some posters fail to see the clear errors of the LS gospel. I find that sad and frustrating.

Some Posters are open to what is being called “Conservative Evangelicals.” I am not. Been there - done that.

Many posters post from the standpoint of limited exposure to theology and ministry issues yet seem to know it all.

Some Posters are anti Dispensational and often do not have a grasp of its history or what it really is.

At any internet site you deal with a level playing field and the PHD stands next to the high school drop out.

The 18 year old is on the same field as the 80 year old ( I am not 80, only 71).

The above can be frustrating to some. Sometimes it is to me. But I realize I must understand and tolerate this in any public internet discourse. This is not a classroom or church.

However, there have been times when the moderators of SI have deleted posts and been involved in discourse in which they have merely had the effect of restricting discussion based on personal view or offense. In my over 5 years of posting I have had a post deleted but one time (of course it was unjust). ;) However, I am talking about others who have come and gone.

A prime example is on this thread. Do not be so quick to gang up on dissenters. IMO Susan and others have defensively ganged up on Marc Monte. If I may be outlandish in my remarks - stop and listen!

So far as some of the outside criticism of SI by bloggers, this is to be expected. One constant critic should not be replied to by SI members. IMO that blogger is [removed: appreciate the support, but let’s not personally target anybody -Aaron]. Even the WPNs have some good things to say. But it comes with some contents pulled from a Dempsy Dumpster. In my years of going to Fundamental Pastors meetings I would occasionally meet and talk with someone that by demeanor and attitude had me thinking that they were not balanced. It is possible that some Fundamentalists who get involved in the constant criticism syndrome, which some make into a ministry, are what Psychiatrists call “functioning Paranoids,” even functioning Paranoid Schizophrenics. That may be why they often take statements wrong or misunderstand what is going on. This of course is but a general statement and I am not applying it to any specific person.

Please take my criticism as being friendly and with appreciation for the difficult job of running such a site as SI. Thank you Aaron for your efforts. Thank you to all the moderators for your efforts on SI.




[gray] I edited your post a little. Ironic, isn’t it? -Aaron

As someone who has written intentionally provocative articles on occasion (Cessationism, Calvinism, Creationism, and Dispensationalism – have I missed anything?), I appreciate the opportunity that SI has given me. Some of these articles expressed my viewpoint; others expressed questions that I felt needed to be raised, then challenged, defended, discarded or reaffirmed. My understanding of the gospel allows me, yea encourages me to labor with those who would disagree with me on many of those issues – to a point of course. As we have heard before disagreement among us does not necessarily entail disobedience to the Word of God. Do any of us really think that we are completely, unalterably right on these issues among others? I’m sure I’m not (and many of you would agree). But I’m still learning. Thanks Aaron for your commendable service for the Lord and his Church.

Aaron, et. al -

Please disregard criticisms aimed at you for funneling fundies from the movement into conservative Evangelicalism. Your work is funneling a lot of folks the other way. There are some of us who have grown up in the type of extreme style IFBism often caricatured here and other places who take a look at SI and say, “hey wait, maybe I’ve been too dismissive. These guys really have some good things to say.” The whole idea here is that iron sharpens iron - it’s all about the discussion and learning and not about tradition and brainwashing and that is a good thing.

I’m sure I’m not (and many of you would agree)
Yes. I was just telling someone that the other day. But I had to agree that you have made me think.. sometimes when I really didn’t want to.

Andrew, thanks. That’s encouraging.

Everybody: this really wasn’t intended to evoke a huge group hug/back patting session. Honest. I mean, it wasn’t a play for sympathy. But I am touched.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

One thing we have perhaps not communicated clearly enough. Where criticizing the moderating (per the Comment Policy) is a no-no is when a moderating decision has just been made in a thread and someone wants to argue the decision then and there. One big reason is that it tends to turn the discussion into one about the moderator action rather than whatever it was about before that. But it’s not like we can’t occasionally have discussions about the moderating, etc. and offer some critiques. It just doesn’t belong “on the scene” when the ref. blows the whistle. Maybe more on that later.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.