A Few Answers to SharperIron Critics
Should we answer critics or ignore them? Though critics should not be lumped in with fools too hastily, Proverbs 26:4-5 might be of some help in answering this question. Apparently, sometimes we should not answer fools, but sometimes we should. Given the number of leadership experts who say, “Never answer the critics because…” as well as the number who say, “You have to answer your critics because…,” I’m guessing that what’s true of fools is also true of critics in this case: sometimes we shouldn’t answer them, but sometimes we should.
Of course, we should listen to our critics first and weigh their criticism. But when listening to a critic reveals a consistent pattern of factual error (and more than a little evidence of malice), further listening is poor stewardship of our time. That narrows the options to “tuning out” or responding.
Public criticism over an extended period of time narrows the options even further. The likelihood increases that people unfamiliar with the facts will encounter accusations and believe them. Actual damage could occur.
Eventually the question is no longer if we should answer the critics but how to answer them without further empowering them—or perhaps, how to answer them in a way that empowers them less than not answering them! One good way might be to target falsehoods without specifically targeting their source.
So here goes. In most cases, these are criticisms that have been leveled publicly against SI or the team for many months, but some more recent accusations receive attention here as well. I’ll put them all in question form.
Is SharperIron going to go under financially?
Sure—doesn’t everything eventually? But the site has not asked for money in over a year. Last August we had a fund drive to pay for 2009’s server costs. As we enter the third quarter of 2010, we’ve no need to do that this year. But what does that prove, either way? Sometimes the wicked prosper (Ps. 37:7) and sometimes the faithful languish (pretty much the whole book of Jeremiah) and sometimes vice versa.
Did SharperIron misrepresent its membership total?
In May of 2009, the membership database had over 4,000 accounts, many of which had been inactive for quite some time. On June 1, 2009, the site went live with new software we nicknamed “3.0.” Due to unexpected data migration problems, we couldn’t get those accounts into the new software in any timely way. So we gave up and asked everyone to register again. From that point on, we had two membership databases. The old one is still on the server.
For some time after June of ‘09, the membership reporting page still had the old ballpark number of 4,000. At some point, I updated the page with more precise wording distinguishing between the two databases. Now we just report the number in the new database (at this moment, 1,387).
To one critic, having the original “4,000” out there for a while was both dishonest and criminal. And more precise reporting as we continued the transition wasn’t good enough either. But one fact remains: the night before we went to “3.0,” SharperIron, LLC owned a database with more than 4,000 member accounts, and after the move it still owned that database—and still owns it today. “SharperIron 3.0” was a nickname for new software, not the name of a new organization. “3.0” does not have members and never will.
I’m still waiting for the FTC to prosecute me for my crimes. But I’m not holding my breath.
Do the SharperIron team members (publisher, moderators, etc.) beat up on non-calvinists?
I’ve been publicly accused (recently by name) of doing this. I’m tempted to offer a cash reward for anyone who can find a thread where I attacked someone for not being a Calvinist or for expressing views contrary to Calvinism. I don’t think I’ve ever even claimed to be a Calvinist. Since some of the critics seem to have too much time on their hands, I invite them to see if they can find any place where I declared my views on Calvinism. It’s possible that I’ve done that somewhere, but it would take a while to find.
In reference to the team, the situation is a little more complex. Many of the team members are more Calvinistic than not, and in the area of Calvinist soteriology, some are very passionate about their beliefs on one point or several. But that’s OK. At SharperIron, the moderators are allowed to have opinions and express them. We’ve officially said so in the “About” information (though it could probably be made clearer), and that’s been standard practice here since SI launched in 2005.
For the record, Arminians (and neither-nor’s!) are welcome here. The doctrinal statement does not exclude them and we’ve never banned anyone for those views. You will find that Arminian or anti-Calvinist views are greeted with passionate rebuttals, but you are welcome to offer passionate counter-rebuttals.
To any non-Calvinist who is being ganged up on at any time: contact me and cry foul. I can’t really help it if the ratio is such that you’re outnumbered—the membership is open in that regard—but we’ve no desire to gang up on anyone. If you’re a non-Calvinist and want more folks standing with you, recruit some buddies to join the site.
Is SharperIron in love with the conservative evangelicals?
That sort of depends on whether you’re talking about the membership, the readership or the leadership. Members are all over the map on that one. Judging from the ‘09-‘10 reader survey, readers would be even more so. But that accusation is often targeted at the site leadership. Where do we stand?
I feel kind of silly answering this because I think the answer is obvious. But not everybody reads the forum threads, and some apparently read every fifth word or so (just enough to get things completely wrong). The attitude of everybody on the team that I’ve seen comment on the subject is that the McArthur, Mohler, Dever, Carson, Piper, Mahaney, etc. crowd has accomplished some really good things and appears destined to continue to do that. We appreciate much of these men’s work. I don’t know of anyone on the team who would deny that these men have some problems theologically and/or in their practice of separation. The “CEs” are not all the same, so it’s hard to generalize beyond that.
But in discussions about seeking closer ties with these leaders—and others like them—my own response has been pretty consistently tepid. I continue to not really understand why some are so passionate about seeking that kind of “emerging middle.” I’m not for lumping the CEs in with apostates, but my imagination doesn’t seem to be up to the task of envisioning what benefit there would be in “closer ties” (whatever exactly that means). I don’t see much to gain for fundamentalists, for the conservative evangelicals or for the body of Christ as whole. Since I’m not a believer in “bigger is better,” I tend to see larger coalitions as more dramatic but not more productive in any eternal sense.
“In love with the CEs”? Well, I don’t hate them. Maybe to the critics, that’s the same thing.
Has Aaron described the site as being for “fundamentalists of the conservative evangelical variety”?
I have to smile at that one. There’s a little switcheroo misquote there. In a few places I have described the site as being for, or consisting of, “conservative evangelicals of the fundamentalist variety.” I think in one place I went with “conservative evangelicals of the kind known historically as fundamentalists,” but that was pretty clunky. The aim in those descriptions is to help folks who know nothing at all about fundamentalism get some idea what the term means in reference to the site.
Since all who believe and promote the gospel are evangelicals (the term derives from euangelion, the Greek word for “gospel”), the site is certainly for evangelicals. Since our constituents are more conservative than most who claim the gospel, we’re also certainly conservative evangelicals. But since we’re also particular about separation (with varying understandings of the principle), we are in yet another subset: one called fundamentalists.
Maybe a diagram would be of some help.
Does the SI team unfairly moderate people they disagree with?
I don’t think we’ve ever had a “How we can moderate less fairly?” meeting. It’s our aim to be fair, and we put a lot of effort into looking for good balances, but we’d have to be fools to think we’re always successful. Sometimes the truth in a situation seems quite clear at the moment but looks very different a few days or weeks later. Sometimes the only thing that is clear is that we ought to intervene in a discussion, but we can’t work out among us what form that intervention should take. So sometimes we just have to pick an option and go for it, and hope for the best.
Everybody sees things through the filter of his or her own sympathies and prejudices. This is true of moderators but also of members posting in threads. So it’s all too easy for someone to believe he “got reffed” when a foul is called against him.
Interestingly, the most aggressive critic of our moderating efforts routinely and unilaterally removes—or refuses to post—comments at his own site if he doesn’t like what they say. At SI, your comment posts first and if there are issues, a team discusses them. Through that counsel, we seek to make wise choices.
We’re always looking for ways to do things better. One persistent goal is nurturing healthy tension while simultaneously reining in inappropriate or clearly unhelpful statements. But it’s an art, and none of us claim to be Michelangelo.
Conclusion
SI is not constantly under attack. As far as I know, the site’s enemies are few, and critics of the distorting or dishonest sort are even fewer. I don’t get angry phone calls (which kind of surprises me—but I certainly don’t mind!). If there are a whole lot of folks who think we’re a Very Bad Thing, they don’t seem to go out of their way to say so. To the few who seem determined to sling mud: well, sling if you must. I’m not slinging back—but occasionally we will rinse off a bit.
Aaron Blumer, SI’s site publisher, is a native of lower Michigan and a graduate of Bob Jones University (Greenville, SC) and Central Baptist Theological Seminary (Plymouth, MN). He, his wife, and their two children live in a small town in western Wisconsin, where he has pastored Grace Baptist Church (Boyceville, WI) since 2000. Prior to serving as a pastor, Aaron taught school in Stone Mountain, Georgia and worked in customer service and technical support for Unisys Corporation (Eagan, MN). He enjoys science fiction, music, and dabbling in software development.
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[Aaron Blumer] As for the diagram. It is nothing more than three concentric circles. All three were created using exactly the same process. Made a circle, labled it, made another inside that, labeled it, made another inside that, labeled it. Simple as that.While I disagree with Marc’s assessment of SI, I think this diagram complaint might be a unique kind of perception problem. On my computer, the difference in color between the CE and Fundamental circles is very faint. I missed it myself at first. Perhaps Marc did not realize there were actually three circles; it might look like only two circles to him with CE and Fundy together in the inner circle.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
I’ve enjoyed many engaging discussions, and I enjoy hearing back from the moderators. I usually learn new things, or get challenged with a broader perspective. Also, not knowing the history of the blog means that sometimes I’m saying things that are probably trite, or tiresome to many.
I posted this morning on Kevin DeYoung’s blog, and he answered me - a rare occurrence! But not here. I’ve found the interaction genuine, regular, focused, and pithy.
So thanks guys, and, of course, Susan!
But really, I think the complaints that SI is too authoritarian or too biased or whatever are completely absurd. The moderators have a difficult job when dealing with comments. They make decisions, sometimes reverse them, sometimes make even tougher decisions. I have NO PROBLEM with any of that. This site doesn’t belong to the users, and the users need to conform to the generally accepted standards of the site. That’s just the way it is. I have personally experienced the disciplinary action of SI ownership (version 1.0 ) and then returned to the site much later under new ownership (version 2.0 ). I have NO PROBLEM with the decisions of either owner. They were perfectly within their rights and if Aaron et al had decided to keep me off the site, I would have had NO PROBLEM with that either.
As far as SI bias is concerned… well, who doesn’t have bias? I can’t imagine this being a ground of complaint. I don’t agree with a lot that is written here. If I don’t agree enough, I can make a response and let MY bias be tested by the rigours of debate.
And as for Aaron’s concentric circles displaying bias… Man, are you wearing a tin-foil hat this morning, or what? Please find something serious to complain about!
I do disagree with the notion that fundamentalists are a subset of evangelicalism. That hasn’t been true since the new evangelicals politicized evangelicalism in the 1950s. Evangelical doesn’t mean simply people interested in the evangel any more. Just as fundamentalism doesn’t simply mean orthodoxy (it is orthodoxy plus militancy), evangelicalism is orthodoxy minus militancy.
Anyway, I think that Aaron et al are doing a commendable job. Even when I disagree with them. Herding cats isn’t easy, and I think you are doing pretty well at it.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
[Don Johnson]One of the great paradoxes of the Internet is that while someone may actually own a site like this, his mindset had better be that the site belongs to the users. If you don’t, you probably won’t be around too long. Look at Facebook. They are worth $30 billion but notice how much they value the input of their users. I know this more democratic perspective may see absurd to some more authoritarian types, but I don’t see any successful sites out there of this kind that don’t give up some of their authority or at least try to downplay it.
But really, I think the complaints that SI is too authoritarian or too biased or whatever are completely absurd. The moderators have a difficult job when dealing with comments. They make decisions, sometimes reverse them, sometimes make even tougher decisions. I have NO PROBLEM with any of that. This site doesn’t belong to the users, and the users need to conform to the generally accepted standards of the site.
[Don Johnson] First, I think we all would agree that I would represent a generally ‘right wing’ segment of SI participants. Anyone disagree with that? I submit the motion is carried!What happens if I disagree ;) ?
Seriously, I’m glad guys like Don and Marc are here. It prevents groupthink and shows that we’re upholding our own goals of ‘providing a place for discussion’.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
Hmmm… SI is being construed as too authoritarian and therefore doomed to fail. Yet it has daily activity and is certainly a “top of mind” site across fundamentalism. Some are enthused about it, some are grousing about it, yet EVERYONE knows about it. (‘Everyone’ is hyperbole, for the nitpickers.)
If that’s failure, well….
P.S. I should clarify that I was responding to Greg’s comment. Jay jumped in there while I was typing.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
Dick Dayton
I’ll remake it.
I agree in part w/those who say fund. is not a subset of evangelicalism. But mostly don’t agree. That is, fundamentalists “came out” of the network and institutions of evangelicalism, and do often use “fundamentalism” and “evangelicalism” on contrast to eachother. But two things:
a. Both historically and theologically we’re all still lovers of the gospel and that is what “evangelical” has meant. (But there is much debate now among “evangelicals” as to whether that term any longer has any useful meaning. They have the same debates we do about “fundamentalism” only over a different term. Interesting, no?)
b. When we use the terms “evangelical” and “fundamentalist” in contrast to eachother, I think most folks mean “fundamentalist” and “other people who believe the gospel/i.e., other evangelicals.” At least that’s what I usually mean.
c. Oops. I said “two things.” Oh well. You’ll note that “New Evangelical” is not on the graphic and fundamentalism is not a subset of that. If I was going to include it, I’d have it be another circled within the evangelical one which partly overlaps the “conservative evangelical” one (maybe with a dotted border?) but doesn’t intersect the fundamentalist one.
Anyway, I’ll post a new graphic shortly.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
[Aaron Blumer]Well, from my perspective they are ovals, not circles. They are definitely not concentric circles (same center). “Fundamentalists” is below and to the right of “Conservative Evangelicals”, and “Fundamentalists” is in a much smaller type size. I’m a guy, so I have no clue what the choice of colors means. I’m sure all that has some subliminal meaning :)
As for the diagram. It is nothing more than three concentric circles. All three were created using exactly the same process. Made a circle, labled it, made another inside that, labeled it, made another inside that, labeled it. Simple as that.
[GregH] A few thoughts while reading this.What this means is that you’re blissfully unaware of the criticism, which is one reason I long hesitated to write a piece like this. (And I”m happy for you, believe me! Nothing wrong w/not being aware of that stuff.)
I am not sure what the purpose of this article is or what is driving it, but it comes across pretty strong. I have to wonder if a few cooling off days before posting it would have been wise.
But…
[the article] In most cases, these are criticisms that have been leveled publicly against SI or the team for many months,So we’ve been kind of cooling off for about a year in reference to a lot of it.
Just wanted to make something available for folks who haven’t heard our side of things and may have encountered the critical side.
As for the authoritarianism thing: if you ever breathe a hint of that again, you will probably disappear. We will hunt you down and …exterminate!
I’m kidding. But please be aware that we are always wrestling with how to accomplish the goals without being heavy handed. Folks will have different opinions about how successfully we’re doing that, but avoiding being too authoritarian is always a goal.
There’s a thread in one of the dark, smoke-filled rooms right now about some different kinds of appeal processes that might or might not be helpful. We do talk about these things.
The survey was one opportunity we provided to get feedback from non-members as well as members on that question, along with many others.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
[Jonathan] Well, from my perspective they are ovals, not circles. They are definitely not concentric circles (same center). “Fundamentalists” is below and to the right of “Conservative Evangelicals”, and “Fundamentalists” is in a much smaller type size. I’m a guy, so I have no clue what the choice of colors means. I’m sure all that has some subliminal meaning :):D!
I did nearly flunk geometry. Now you know why. They are indeed not “concentric.” Somebody will have to tell me what the right term is for “circles inside circles.” They may well also be slightly elliptical. Which probably does have subliminal meaning… as in, revealing the “artist’s” slightly lopsided view of reality.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
I think my initial point was highlighted by Susan’s immediate, defensive response. The truth of the matter is that perception is important. Most perceptions are based in fact. The near universal perception of IFB pastors (the old-school guys) is that SI is a haven for left-leaning ideas. I am well connected within the IFB circles, and I am only reporting honestly and accurately what is the general opinion. (I could “name names,” but I will refrain. If I did, almost everyone on thes blog would recognize them.)
Rather than make a knee-jerk demand for “facts” as if I’m only out to take pot shots, the moderators should consider the impression that has been left with the old guard of the IFB movement. Like it or not, there is an increasingly “great gulf fixed” between the older guys and the younger, and SI is viewed as decidedly on the same page as the younger. Also, the moderators should consider the fact that their defensiveness and the tone of their posts discourages guys like me from engaging in the discussion. If the “powers that be” can pull the plug or belittle a thread (or, in the case of the alcohol issue, move the thread around so much that it can’t be found), the more conservative guys will decide that it’s not worth the effort to discuss anything in this venue. As I have done for several months, they’ll just ignore it and eventually forget about it.
I think the moderators should consider these thoughts without being defensive and self-congratulatory.
Just clinging to my guns and religion... www.faithbaptistavon.com
I also shrunk the font used for “Conservative Evangelicals” so that I do not suggest any exaggerated sense of importance for them. ;)
“Fundamentalism” would be much, much larger, but wouldn’t fit in its oval that way.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
[Pastor Marc Monte] Maybe it’s my eyesight or maybe it’s my computer, but the graphic I see has only two colors, the larger circle being lavender and the smaller being peach. The peach color sort of fades toward an off cream/yellow as it nears “fundamentalist,” but there is no definite oval line on mine. It could be my computer. (Those who are seeing green circles have me concerned!)Hey Mark …. want you to know I am listening. I did reply earlier to you here: http://www.sharperiron.org/article/few-answers-to-sharperiron-critics#c…
I think my initial point was highlighted by Susan’s immediate, defensive response. The truth of the matter is that perception is important. Most perceptions are based in fact. The near universal perception of IFB pastors (the old-school guys) is that SI is a haven for left-leaning ideas. I am well connected within the IFB circles, and I am only reporting honestly and accurately what is the general opinion. (I could “name names,” but I will refrain. If I did, almost everyone on thes blog would recognize them.)
Rather than make a knee-jerk demand for “facts” as if I’m only out to take pot shots, the moderators should consider the impression that has been left with the old guard of the IFB movement. Like it or not, there is an increasingly “great gulf fixed” between the older guys and the younger, and SI is viewed as decidedly on the same page as the younger. Also, the moderators should consider the fact that their defensiveness and the tone of their posts discourages guys like me from engaging in the discussion. If the “powers that be” can pull the plug or belittle a thread (or, in the case of the alcohol issue, move the thread around so much that it can’t be found), the more conservative guys will decide that it’s not worth the effort to discuss anything in this venue. As I have done for several months, they’ll just ignore it and eventually forget about it.
I think the moderators should consider these thoughts without being defensive and self-congratulatory.
Jim Peet
S/I Forum Director
Discussion