No, Haitian Immigrants Are Not Eating Pet Cats

It may be more complicated than that, I agree. But Trump needs to move away from fear mongering and outline a plan. Whether he agrees with it or not, they do have a legal status. He should clearly outline a plan. His plan has increasingly has grown more extensive with less facts and more fear over time.

Protections were given temporarily because of the conditions in Haiti, something that has been extended to other groups at various times in the last 30 or so years. I think we remember the missionary couple that were dragged into the streets in Haiti and brutally murdered a little while ago as the president of Haiti fled and the country descended into chaos run by armed gangs.

Whether that should have been extended or not, is up for debate. But that is what the debate should be about, not lets identify a group of people by race and culture, lets hails slurs at them.

By the way, Erika Lee and Kimberly Newton came out on Friday, September 13th that their claims were hearsay. So no, it wasn't quite recent. It was 6 days ago (3 days after the debate lie).

As I observe the pushback against dgszweda, Ken S and myself, I am dumbfounded how much stock those on SI gave to hearsay rather than proven methods of research. I can't prove it, but I feel that the government's mishandling of COVID-19 really sowed irreparable damage and permanent distrust of government institutions among many conservatives where we are skeptical of government officials hiding the truth from us but where we automatically see virtue among the average conservative "Joe" on the street. It doesn't matter if the hearsay was in March or August, if a person can't substantiate with evidence, it shouldn't be shared or believed or else its gossip and slander, even if it is about people we don't know. Trump, Vance, the GOP who spread these lies and rumors sinned. Period. Their lies are not somehow more virtuous than the progressive lies from the other side. I only wish that both political parties would "police" and keep their own politicians accountable when they do something morally wrong. Instead, they focus much more on what the other side is doing wrong and minimize the sins of their own group.

Even if it turned out to be true, that doesn't mean what Trump is doing is ok. He is using the story to stoke hatred and spread xenophobia. This is antithetical to the Bible, and Christians should be distancing themselves from this, not supporting Trump. I can't believe this even needs to be said.

What I can't believe needs to be said is that the fundamental truth about what is going on is necessarily prior to any conclusions about the politics. All the pontificating of the talking heads and the "self-regulating" media establishment (which has zero credibility at this point with genuinely fair-minded people) ignores this more fundamental question.

My objection from the beginning is that too often we say things like, "Even if it proves to be true [insert despised politician here], we all know he's a liar and a horrible person." Uh, no. Let's prioritize truth.

PVawter, I'm trying to understand...are you saying that if the story is true then Trump is not using it to stoke xenophobia?

What I see is that if the story is true then Trump is:

• stoking xenophobia
• not offering practical solutions to help legal Haitian immigrant assimilate into our culture

If the story is false, Trump is:

• stoking xenophobia
• spreading false narratives about legal Haitian immigrants

In either case Trump is fomenting hatred and stoking xenophobia. This is his MO, and he does at every rally, town hall, interview, podcast appearance, and so on. He's been doing it for years and it's the key point on how he hopes to win the election, by getting enough voters outraged about "these people poisoning our country". So far in Springfield this has resulted in 33 bomb threats, state troopers being sent in to guard kids heading to school, event cancellations, and radical far right groups with assault rifles visiting the city to demonstrate. Legal immigrants in Springfield are being called "dirty Haitians" and other verbal abuses. I'm not sure how Christians thing this is Biblically defensible, and not sure why they want to defend it.

As far as the story, I'm concerned about truth as well. But so far it's been said to be false by numerous reliable authorities including even the Springfield PD, so who exactly are the ones concerned about truth here?

I think the disparaging statements against the Haitians are just going to get more severe. Just this morning, my wife reposted a meme on her facebook page that said this:

Jack Brewer, who has worked in Haiti for 15 years confirms eating wild animals and cannibalism

"Not just are they eating animals, but they're eating humans. There's cannibalism in Haiti going on all the time. I have literally videos on my phone of people eating and sacrificing other people."

"The culture in Haiti, that people eat animals and sacrifice animals. You have a big voodoo culture in Haiti that's just rampant."

I just hope this doesn't get spread enough for Trump or Vance to see it. Who knows what Trump would say at the next rally.

Pvawter,

"My objection from the beginning is that too often we say things like, "Even if it proves to be true [insert despised politician here], we all know he's a liar and a horrible person." Uh, no. Let's prioritize truth."

No, that is not what we are saying. What we are saying, that even if a haitian is found to have eaten a cat, than all we have is a haitian eating a cat. We don't have "the hatians in Springfield are stealing peoples pets and eating them, so we need to deport them"

I care about the truth. But at this point, the only confirmation we have is that there have been no confirmed reports at the city, state or federal level. And all the accusations have been hearsay so far. So do, I sit here and say, "Well, we have all of this evidence that nothing happened, bbbbuuuutttt, it could happen, so therefore I can't say for sure that it never happened." And since I can't say for sure it never happened, than what Trump said is true.

As a side note, we aren't saying he is a liar and horrible person, because we don't like him. We are saying he is a liar and horrible person, because he abuses women, laughs at God, is a convicted criminal and impeached twice. Does that make everything he does wrong? No. Does that mean you shouldn't vote for him (that is for each person to decide). What it does mean is we should call out the wrong he does do, otherwise we are complicit in it.

I guess if we cannot agree on whether or not 5 or 6 days ago was quite recent, then we will be talking past each other for quite a while. Thank you, however, for clarifying the exact day of the event that I had not even heard about until yesterday- 5 days after it happened. I am guessing a lot of us did not hear about the city council meeting that happened in March until yesterday either. The point is that more information keeps coming out and that is good. As has been pointed out by numerous of us, the information does not justify whether Trump should have said what he said though. Let me go on record yet again that he should not have said it. I think we should be able to separate that part of the discussion and learn that we can agree on some things and disagree on others without attaching each other's character.

As far as if it was a lie or not. If 2 or 3 people who are first hand witnesses say something happened, then Biblically we should not call it a lie. Those people do not have to be elected officials. On this particular subject, after it has been discussed for over a week, I still have not found those 2 or 3 first hand witnesses. A week ago however, I was under the impression that those witnesses did exist. That is why it is wise to wait for the facts to be forthcoming before jumping to conclusions one way or the other.