Dave Ramsey’s Company Dropped From ‘Best Workplaces’ List by Inc. Magazine Due to Lawsuit
“In court documents, Ramsey Solutions said O’Connor, who is not married, was fired for having premarital sex, which violated the company’s ‘righteous living’ policy.” - C. Leaders
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I think we can get a bit too picky about what Ramsey’s company is doing. Every company has a slightly different set of rules, written and unwritten, where violation will get you disciplined or fired or worse. My company’s rules are certainly different from Ramsey’s, and that’s OK.
Regarding how appropriate the rule in question here might be, Ramsey is in something of a pickle, IMO. If he had a lot of people on staff who were not chaste, a lot of customers would indeed flee for Crown Financial and other ministries doing about the same thing as Ramsey. On the flip side, since pregnancy is something of an unmistakeable thing, the rule will indeed tend to discriminate against women. It can’t be hidden easily.
Note here that in this case, that’s not what’s at issue. What’s at issue is that the company seems to have enforced the rule in one case but not another known case. That’s the absolute worst thing you can do with a company policy—enforce it selectively. For that matter, lesson for all of us, it’s the worst thing we can do with church policies, too.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Objecting to firing because you don’t like that a woman got pregnant and is not married is not being “picky.” Firing the woman was patently absurd.
When you start a business there are certain things that you cannot control, nor should you want to control. One of them is who they have sex with. Another is who they live with.
Focus on your business, not trying to control their morality.
Hey, if they can fire this woman for having sex and not being married, then by logic you could be fired for going to a church the owner doesn’t like. What if your church had a scandal that hit the news. You are a deacon or elder there. Your boss finds out cuz someone saw you attend there and have a leadership position. The company starts to take heat so they fire you. Is this ok?
[Mark_Smith]When you start a business there are certain things that you cannot control, nor should you want to control. One of them is who they have sex with. Another is who they live with.
Focus on your business, not trying to control their morality.
Hey, if they can fire this woman for having sex and not being married, then by logic you could be fired for going to a church the owner doesn’t like. What if your church had a scandal that hit the news. You are a deacon or elder there. Your boss finds out cuz someone saw you attend there and have a leadership position. The company starts to take heat so they fire you. Is this ok?
Mark, again you’re missing the point. You may not like Ramsey’s morality code. In fact, you may despise it.
Great!
Solution: don’t work for Ramsey.
However, if you choose to work for Ramsey knowing the morality code, then you can’t complain when you’re fired for breaking it. Doesn’t matter if it’s selectively enforced.
Tom, keep in mind that it does matter if it’s selectively enforced….and this is something that we ought to note regarding church governance as well. If you enforce a rule against some people, but not others, what you’re doing, rhetorically speaking, is to hang out a sign in front of your business or church saying “please sue me.”
Again, in this case, advantages and disadvantages exist for the specific policy, but you definitely don’t want to be in the position of selective enforcement.
One other note; Mark pointed to the reality of employers possibly starting to fire people based on worshipping at churches/etc., which practice certain things that are obnoxious to that employer. Per what David noted above, that’s simple reality these days. Right now, it’s rampant bigotry that will do the trick. Going forward, it might be something as simple as refusing to give your favored pronouns.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
[josh p]I would be horrified if my boss fired me for being a Christian but it’s his business. If I went into it knowing that was a requirement of working there I guess I can’t complain.
Actually you can complain. If his sole reason for firing you was that you were a Christian, that is illegal within the US, and you would be subject to remedy.
These are the protected classes with regards to employment:
- Race
- Color
- Religion
- Sex (including pregnancy)
- Sexual orientation
- National origin
- Age (40 years or older)
- Disability or genetic information
I assume Ramsey Co will argue that they didn’t fire the woman because of her pregnancy, but for violating its morality code about premarital / extramarital sex, which resulted in the pregnancy.
[dgszweda]Actually you can complain. If his sole reason for firing you was that you were a Christian, that is illegal within the US, and you would be subject to remedy.
And so is firing someone for being pregnant.
[dgszweda]Actually you can complain. If his sole reason for firing you was that you were a Christian, that is illegal within the US, and you would be subject to remedy.
Yes I could legally (although I don’t believe that should be a law but that’s another discussion altogether), but I wouldn’t if I knew going in that was a rule.
Doesn’t Dave have more to worry about than whether an employee had an “appropriate” sexual relationship. I mean, who cares? He’s a running a huge business. Employee 977 isn’t married but had a child. So? Get a grip. Leave some things to God bro.
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