Conservative publication fact checks election fraud stories
“All of these claims, with the exception of the absentee Georgia ballots (which seemed like honest confusion and could actually have hurt Joe Biden if true, given his general advantage in mailed-in ballots), were shared to bolster the claim that the election was stolen from Donald Trump. And all of them, with the exception of the claim that Pennsylvania reported a batch of ballots all for Biden, were false. (Even that one was missing some context.)” - The Dispatch
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[Don Johnson]Come on David, you’re better than that.
Really? This thread is about dead. But the President provided no comprehensive plan on how to protect and keep the country open. He doesn’t even speak about it anymore. He peddled conspiracy theories, whether it was hydroxychloroquine, or putting UV lights in your body. He provided very little leadership and his approach has been to ignore it and try to change the focus. Now has everything he has done, been wrong? No. He has done some good things. Jared Kushner actually had a good plan spinning up in the beginning, but it was crushed. And no I am not siding with the liberals that want to lock everything down. But if you think the lack of leadership,lack of comprehensive plan and confusion didn’t create a situation where one unnecessary person died, I would say that you might be naive here. We talk about the sanctity of life on here and we embrace that term to mean stopping abortion, but we are on track to almost hit the same death numbers from COVID. Are they all preventable? No. But with a better plan, we could have prevented some of them.
Not only were a bunch thrown out in court yesterday, but now we are starting to hear stories than some of them were not truthful. Here is the one cited by Barr as an example of fraud.
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/postal-worker-recants-claims-fraud-024203321…
[dgszweda]Of course, your post is from a different election, not the one that we are talking about in this thread. And yes, votes come in from dead people. If you know anything about elections, it is pretty common. People still die in the US. So when they vote early, submit the vote and then die before election day, there vote doesn’t count. Of course the President’s actions on COVID have only increased this number this year.
Of course, if the person is still alive when the vote is cast, the vote counts. So you have completely misrepresented the case here, David. The nearly 800 people who voted on behalf of the dead during the primaries (where turnout is generally lower) were clearly breaking the law, motivated by the incentive of the various perks of political power. They are not afraid to do so because nobody apparently can figure out how to compare handwriting and addresses and figure who fraudulently filed for an absentee ballot in Michigan law enforcement. Back in the 2016 general, the number was about twice as high. Maybe it’s time to start taking vote fraud seriously, because it’s obvious that there are a lot of people out there doing it.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
David, the federal response included a huge bill to keep the economy going, massive coordination and subsidies for vaccine development and COVID tests, and massive coordination and subsidies for ventilator production. So sorry, there was a federal response, and we are left to say that we either agree or disagree with certain provisions.
Moreover, whatever Trump got right or wrong, he also was confronted with health officials who at times gave some rather bad advice, such as commending Democratic governors who were sending (Gov. Whitmer even with a veto) COVID patients back into nursing homes, failed to sanitize subways, and the like. So he was quite frankly hamstrung in some of what he could have done. One big thing Trump did that most Democrats did not was to emphasize the human cost—yes, including lives—of mandatory isolation, joblessness, and the like brought about by shutdowns.
Please; I get that many people don’t like Trump, and in a way I’m among them. But let’s not let that get in the way of the facts, David. My last two comments indicate that yes, this is the case for you.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Of course there’s fraud. Yes. I agree. But do you think there is any way that enough fraud will be found to flip any state?
It is one thing to want to make elections fraud free. That is noble. That is not what is going on here. People actually think Trump won but fraud was used to defeat him… They think some court is going to rule out mounds of ballots. That won’t happen. That’s not a prophecy ( a la Kris Vallontin) it is a prediction based on past behavior, political expediency, and standard rules. Courts might rule on specific votes if someone can prove fraud in that case. They might say, going forward, this new rule will apply, but they aren’t going to do the Republican fantasy, which is to say all votes received in the mail in PA after 8PM Tuesday don’t count. If that happened, I’d be floored. But even if it did, what about MI, and GA, and AZ, and NV?
The point? Trump lost. Biden won. Pray. Worship God. Move on.
please answer my post before that one. What do you think is going to happen? What is the end goal of the fraud investigations? Do you really think Trump will win?
As of 844AM on Nov 11, here is Biden’s lead in the various states:
AZ 13,000
GA 14,000
MI 148,000
NV 33,000
PA 48,000
WI 20,000
In which state will enough fraud be found to overcome those numbers? And remember Trump needs most if not all of those to flip in his favor to win. It’s a close election, no doubt. But let’s be realistic.
Let me give Trump NC. That gives Trump 232 electoral votes. He needs 38 more. Here are the electoral votes out there.
AZ 11
NV 6
GA 16
MI 16
PA 20
WI 10
If he wins PA he is at 252. Give him GA. That’s 268. He needs something else. AZ?
What are the odds he will win all of that in court?
Mark, at this point, I somewhat view this as a bit of a case where we can do better going forward, not that we are going to necessarily prevail now unless someone really fesses up to something big. The pattern of the evidence—people locked out here and there, a number of dead voters’ ballots likely being counted—does not suggest something big will happen. So all in all, my hope is that this whole mess will persuade us that it’s important to investigate and prosecute vote fraud. Again, if Michigan had 800 detected cases of people trying to vote for the dead and zero prosecutions—when you have the address and a signature for the person applying—that means that somebody isn’t taking this seriously.
So yes, I’m praying that the visible signs of Biden’s dementia don’t progress to a nasty reality when he gets the nuclear football. It’s well known that personality can change rather unpredictably for the worse with the progression of mental decline. I’m praying that we retain divided government so we don’t get two new states and the gutting of immigration law, along with a stuffed Supreme Court that eviscerates the Constitution and preserves abortion on demand for another set of generations. I’m praying that the well-known anti-semitism of the Squad doesn’t get a strong hearing at 1600 Pennsylvania—undoing the progress that’s been achieved in the middle East.
I’m also praying that many who accuse President Trump of narcissism learn that the most dangerous narcissism is not that which is obvious, but rather that which covers its tracks well. It’s not that which spouts of nonsense about minor issues in a predictable way, but rather that which covers its tracks better.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
[Bert Perry]Mark, at this point, I somewhat view this as a bit of a case where we can do better going forward, not that we are going to necessarily prevail now unless someone really fesses up to something big.
Agreed
From my perspective, the primary reason for refusing to concede until all suspected cases of fraud are thoroughly investigated is for the future. We have heard similar voter fraud charges in past elections, some of which seem very likely. And yet, no one was willing to go to the trouble and expense of following through with meaningful investigation and prosecution. Because they were not sufficient to flip the results, it was more comfortable, perhaps more gentlemanly, to let them go. The predictable result? They continue to occur. Why not, if there’s no consequences? It’s almost as if Republicans have agreed that unless they win elections with enough votes to exceed the votes stolen by fraud, they will accept defeat. Democrats can win with 49.5% legal votes plus enough fraudulent votes to get above 50%. Republicans must get 50% plus enough additional votes to overcome fraud, say 51%. Otherwise, they will just concede. Enough already!
For the sake of our Nation, let us encourage Trump to follow through on every suspicious case. It probably will not give him the presidency, but it will help ensure the integrity of future elections.
G. N. Barkman
[Bert Perry]The pattern of the evidence—people locked out here and there, a number of dead voters’ ballots likely being counted—does not suggest something big will happen. So all in all, my hope is that this whole mess will persuade us that it’s important to investigate and prosecute vote fraud. Again, if Michigan had 800 detected cases of people trying to vote for the dead and zero prosecutions—when you have the address and a signature for the person applying—that means that somebody isn’t taking this seriously.
This. In fact 1000x this. [Bold above mine]. And not just investigation and prosecution, but implementation of policies that make it much harder. I’m not expecting a reversal, but I would like our nation to take vote fraud and verification MUCH more seriously so this doesn’t happen again. I know that’s not likely, especially under a Biden administration, but I can hope for it anyway, and I hope all the chaos now helps convince some that it’s necessary.
Dave Barnhart
[G. N. Barkman]From my perspective, the primary reason for refusing to concede until all suspected cases of fraud are thoroughly investigated is for the future. We have heard similar voter fraud charges in past elections, some of which seem very likely. And yet, no one was willing to go to the trouble and expense of following through with meaningful investigation and prosecution. Because they were not sufficient to flip the results, it was more comfortable, perhaps more gentlemanly, to let them go. The predictable result? They continue to occur. Why not, if there’s no consequences? It’s almost as if Republicans have agreed that unless they win elections with enough votes to exceed the votes stolen by fraud, they will accept defeat. Democrats can win with 49.5% legal votes plus enough fraudulent votes to get above 50%. Republicans must get 50% plus enough additional votes to overcome fraud, say 51%. Otherwise, they will just concede. Enough already!
For the sake of our Nation, let us encourage Trump to follow through on every suspicious case. It probably will not give him the presidency, but it will help ensure the integrity of future elections.
OK, but most people fighting about this are thinking Trump really won and it was stolen by boxes of votes being brought in “when they stood down the counting” on election night. Rush Limbaugh isn’t talking about the future. Mark Levin isn’t. No one on NewsMax is. They are talking about now.
[Mark_Smith]OK, but most people fighting about this are thinking Trump really won and it was stolen by boxes of votes being brought in “when they stood down the counting” on election night. Rush Limbaugh isn’t talking about the future. Mark Levin isn’t. No one on NewsMax is. They are talking about now.
We can’t help what “most” people are discussing. Even the determination of what “most” means is coming from the sources making the loudest noise. People like me are trying to sort through all the noise, both from the left-leaning sources saying “No fraud, election has been fairly decided, evidence has been ‘debunked’,” and those on the right saying “the election was STOLEN!” The truth is somewhere in the middle, and it’s getting harder and harder to know which sources are trustworthy. Further, it’s been obvious for years that it’s one side always saying there’s never any evidence of fraud (even though any effort to look for it is derided and shut down) and that any efforts to make elections more trustworthy are simply “voter suppression.” Seeing that, it’s no wonder that some people are suspicious enough to consider conspiracy theories. Repairing our broken system would help a lot of that go away.
Personally, I’d find it quite interesting even if 99% of the lawsuits fail for lack of adequate evidence, but a small number, or even a single one shows that fraud and corruption did take place. Or even that a governmental official/office acted improperly to change the parameters of the election outside of the legitimate process through the legislature, and thus counted votes that should have been deemed invalid. Even if it didn’t change the results of the election, but changed a single state, or even didn’t change the results in the state enough to flip the election, but showed that there is a big problem, that would help people understand that we can’t keep doing things the way we have been.
I’ve not been praying that people would see the “truth” and that Trump would be victorious. I *have* been praying that if there really is fraud, that it would clearly come to light, and that God would give us peace to move forward with our Christian lives no matter who is elected to the office.
Dave Barnhart
So you all admit Trump didn’t win then? Or, at least you realize there is no way any court is going to overturn enough votes for Trump to win. You just want the irregularities accounted for.
Discussion