Conservative publication fact checks election fraud stories

I think you are throwing “you” around a lot. I have tried to make my position clear. I am not a blind Trump follower. I know his flaws. I don’t think there was massive voter fraud other than the move to unchecked mail in ballots.

I agree what many conservative commentators are putting out is kooky. Giuliani in particular looks like an old retired used car dealer… creepy. But I also think the anti-Trump diatribe the last 4 years has been kooky as well. I think the mainstream media coverage of the election has been insanely biased. Not biased. Propaganda.

So I urge you to be careful with putting everyone in the same box.

[dcbii]

So those who don’t just blindly accept what has to this point been reported about the vote totals are idolaters?

There is a difference between legitimate verification and massive lies. Lets investigate legitimate issues, but we have people not even tied to anything running rampant claiming fraud. We have a president claiming fraud. We have a GOP claiming fraud. All with no proof. Everyone filing lawsuits. This is so out of hand and beyond anything about verification. Trump was claiming fraud months before there was even an election. What bothers me is that fact that everyone has jumped on board assuming fraud and assuming intent, instead of first investigating first. It has already been stated both those in Trumps inner circle, that Trumps plan was to paint this election as illegitimate. His goal is to paint the election process and illegitimate and claim that Biden was elected fraudulently. That is a very dangerous place for a president to stand, especially when his push started in May. He already claimed that it would be fraudulent before there was any proof. He continues to peddle this narrative today, even without proof.

So while I stand with the idea of verfiying everything, I despise this preconceived notion that there was fraud and spending millions of taxpayer dollars to drive this narrative. The fact that Christians are jumping on board with this narrative (again before there was even a single vote cast), is crazy. When you disregard truth in order to keep a corrupt leader in place just because he is against abortion and pass laws that people feel protect their ways I think is a travesty.

[dgszweda]

The seminal work on voter fraud from the Brennan Center, a non-partisan group (https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/truth-about-vote…), shows that voter fraud is extremely, extremely rare. And that practically all allegations prove to be false, even though they make for good press, are propogated across the press and large swaths of people still hold to it.

In related news, the National Fox Association report that after a review of reports of foxes stealing hens from farmers they can say definitively that “practically all allegations prove to be false.” In fact, they claim, cases of foxes eating hens are “extremely, extremely rare.”

Seriously, you cite one of the most liberal, biased think tanks in the country (named for the demon who authored the Roe v. Wade disaster) and want us to think that they are a credible source? The politicians they support and the policies they promote benefit mightily from vote fraud. Of course they didn’t find any evidence.

They’re a generally liberal think tank. Yes, officially nonpartisan, but they’ve got a dog in this hunt, one that is in accordance with the notion that there isn’t much vote fraud.

My take on this issue in general is that the actions and positions of the left generally seem to correspond well with “well, we didn’t take a look at this, so we didn’t find anything, hence we will claim there is no problem, and we will fight you fiercely if you want to take a look at this.” It’s a circular argument worthy of Lucy Van Pelt.

Listen, everything has bias. Either you are left or right, and very few are considered 100% centered. The Brennan Center is rated as leaning slightly left with a High level of factual reporting. Here is a report from the Brookings Institute, which is rated as slight left leaning with a Very High level of factual reporting. Much of this report is made up of data from the Heritage Foundation which leans right and has a High level of factual reporting. You can see tons of these reports from fairly center sites.

You guys are posting things from sites like NewsMax which is considered borderline extreme right reporting with a mixed to low level of factual reporting as reported from various nonpartisan media bias fact checking sites. Give me a break!

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/02/low-rates-of-fraud-in-…

The Brennan report leads with the claim that it’s more likely to be struck by lightning than for someone to impersonate another at the polls. Well, let’s compare. Lightning: about 100 injuries in the U.S. in 2019. News from Texas; social worker charged with 134 counts of election fraud. From the New York Post, a report on a mail ballot fixer. From the Heritage Foundation, 1285 cases. 1000 cases of double voting found in Georgia. In the past couple of elections, Michigan election officials have rejected 846 ballots from deceased people by August 16 after rejecting over 1600 of them in 2016. You have to wonder how many ballots got through.

Verdict on the Brennan claim: false. Even if we limit cases to known convictions, the amount of vote fraud far exceeds being struck by lightning. Given the incentives in government—how many trillions of dollars are spent—vote fraud can pay off in a big way. We ought to treat ballot security as the issue that it is.

Well all of the lawsuits in Nevada have been thrown out. They are not getting past much beyond being filed. I am all for finding fraud and full on prosecuting it, but at this point it still appears to be claims, that can’t even get before the courts, or they are just not getting filed. Great for PR, but nothing really of substance here.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trump-campaign-has-come-up-with-friv…

Someone here said this news story has been debunked. I found the Secretary of State’s reply (Jocelyn Benson) to the controversy. You can find it at the link below. I’m not clear on what has supposedly been debunked. She doesn’t contradict the meat of the claim, which is that 6,000 votes were in fact given to Biden when they were meant for Trump. Of course the mistake was found and corrected, but I don’t see how that changes the heart of the issue. It still happened. She says it was human error and not a computer glitch. (Actually, IMO, human error makes it more prone to shenanigans than a computer glitch.) So? Those were still 6,000 ballots. I’m glad the problem was identified and fixed, but I’m not clear on why her response debunks the original claim. Maybe somebody else can read this and explain what I’m missing. Thanks.

Keep in mind that she is a Democrat serving under Governor Whitmer, who is not a big friend of conservatives. That doesn’t mean I’m judging her motives or intent, but her place in the spectrum should be something to keep in mind.

https://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7-127-1640_9150-544676—,00.html

False claims from Ronna McDaniel have no merit

NOVEMBER 6, 2020

In response to the false claims made by Republican National Committee chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, the Michigan Department of State issues the following statements of fact:

Michigan’s elections were conducted fairly, effectively and transparently and are an accurate reflection of the will of Michigan voters.

The erroneous reporting of unofficial results from Antrim county was a result of accidental error on the part of the Antrim County Clerk. The equipment and software did not malfunction and all ballots were properly tabulated. However, the clerk accidentally did not update the software used to collect voting machine data and report unofficial results.

Like many counties in Michigan, Antrim County uses the Dominion Voting Systems election management system and voting machines (ballot tabulators.) The county receives programming support from Election Source. Tabulators are programmed to scan hand marked, paper ballots. When machines are finished scanning the ballots, the paper ballots are retained and a totals tape showing the number of votes for each candidate in each race is printed from the machine.

In order to report unofficial results, county clerks use election management system software to combine the electronic totals from tabulators and submit a report of unofficial results. Because the clerk did not update software, even though the tabulators counted all the ballots correctly, those accurate results were not combined properly when the clerk reported unofficial results.

The correct results always were and continue to be reflected on the tabulator totals tape and on the ballots themselves. Even if the error in the reported unofficial results had not been quickly noticed, it would have been identified during the county canvass. Boards of County Canvassers, which are composed of 2 Democrats and 2 Republicans, review the printed totals tape from each tabulator during the canvass to verify the reported vote totals are correct.

The software did not cause a misallocation of votes; it was a result of user human error. Even when human error occurs, it is caught during county canvasses.

It is also completely false that the county had to or will have to hand count all their ballots. The ballots were properly counted by the tabulators. The county had to review the printed tabulator results from each precinct, not each individual ballot.

As with other unofficial results reporting errors, this was an honest mistake and did not affect any actual vote totals. Election clerks work extremely hard and do their work with integrity. They are human beings, and sometimes make mistakes. However, there are many checks and balances that ensure mistakes can be caught and corrected.

As Detroit officials have stated, hundreds of challengers from both parties were inside their absent voter counting board all afternoon and evening. And even after some left, there were always challengers from both parties in the room. Dozens of reporters were in the room as well. Further, some windows were covered to stop those outside from filming the people and private information in the counting board, while other windows were left uncovered to ensure additional transparency.

As was stated by Chris Thomas, who as a contractor for the Detroit City Clerk’s Office served as an advisor on the execution of this election and led challenger relations, and who is the former Michigan Director of Elections, who served under both republican and democrat Secretaries of State during his 40-year-tenure with the Bureau of Elections, no ballots were backdated. Rather, a clerical error was made when some ballot envelopes were received in Detroit satellite offices. Although employees stamped a date of receipt on the envelopes, an employee failed to complete the transaction for receiving the ballot by saving that date in the Qualified Voter File. Therefore, at the absent voter counting board, after discussion with Republican challengers who chose not to challenge the process, staff was instructed to enter that date stamped on the envelope ensuring that no voters were disenfranchised by the clerical error.

# # #
For media questions, contact
Tracy Wimmer at 517-281-1876.

We welcome questions and comments at the Contact the Secretary of State page.

Customers may call the Department of State Information Center to
speak to a customer-service representative at 888-SOS-MICH (767-6424).

Doesn’t it seem odd that nearly all the glitches that have been discovered favor Biden and Democrats? It’s easy to proclaim that there is no evidence of fraud while discounting glitches as innocent human errors. Perhaps. But if these are innocent glitches, wouldn’t common sense and the law of averages tell us that half should favor Republicans? If nearly all known glitches favor Democrats, isn’t it reasonable to conclude that they were more than likely deliberate attempts to cheat? It’s thank worthy they were discovered and corrected. But if deliberate cheating is going on, one can only speculate as to how many others have not been discovered, and probably never will be. The corrected glitches are probably only the tip of the ice burg.

I know, I know. That sounds like right wing conspiracy rhetoric. But where are the glitches that favor Republicans?

I think it’s logical to raise this point, and I think it’s a valid question. Unfortunately, I doubt we will ever have an answer.

And no, that doesn’t mean this is part a right-wing conspiracy. Just a question in our minds.

The MI Secretary of State’s office is very interesting. OK, let’s go with the official explanation; the 6000 ballot miscount was a failure to update software. OK, let’s assume revision n of the software fixed a problem that existed in at least one previous revision. Questions; how many previous revisions had this bug, why did this bug seem to benefit the Democrats, how many other races were impacted, how many other elections were impacted, how many other states had this flawed software, etc.?

And from the text, it seems like a simple algorithm whereby a series of files are read and tabulated. You don’t need to do calculus to count votes, after all. OK, this made it out of quality control…..how? Sorry, but the explanation generates more questions for me than it answers.

[Adam Blumer]

I think it’s logical to raise this point, and I think it’s a valid question. Unfortunately, I doubt we will ever have an answer.

And no, that doesn’t mean this is part a right-wing conspiracy. Just a question in our minds.

The issue, and what is taking place is that someone identifies a glitch and then assumes there was a problem or there is fraud. Like you noted above, it was fixed. I know poll workers. They are sitting there working very hard with people looking over there shoulders and identifying every mistake they see, regardless of the outcome. You have nearly 150M pieces of paper being counted and processes in some cases by hand all over the nation. There will 100% be some errors and mistakes. There is no known system or even a perceived potential system that would eliminate any error from ever taking place. What you see in MI and other places is that they have all kinds of checks and balances, that are setup to ensure that mistakes are caught and corrected. What you see happening is that one side is quickly noting anything that looks or smells like a mistake and then parading it around to support Trumps narrative around fraud. If the mistake is corrected, it is not fraud, it is part of a normal process designed to assume that a mistake may be made and that a check will catch it and correct it. If you were at work and your boss was literally standing over your shoulder while you were working would you ever catch you making a mistake? Sure. The reason why a lot of these are swinging toward Biden is that it was well known that voting in person would be more predominately Republican because of Trumps continued insistence that everything else would be fraudulent and if you wanted your vote counted do it in person. Those are primarily captured via computer and registered and recorded right away, in some cases without human intervention. The mail in ballots would be predominately coming from Democrats, because they were more concerned about social distancing and other items. Most news organizations pointed this out weeks and in some cases months before voting took place. Polling of random people further confirmed this. These mail in ballots require them to be opened and processed by hand, many cases taking days to process and giving opportunity for people to note any type of inconsistency they could find.

What Trump has done is to feed his base a story for quite some time (as far back as March) that this election would be stolen, it would be fraudulent…. To be fraudulent you would need mistakes. Not real mistakes. Just mistakes. What he has done is to take all of these supposed mistakes and strung them together to piece his narrative together. It is the exact same model used by QAnon, flat earthers, no moon visit…. you name the conspiracy theory, thrives on. If there was really something here, some type of lawsuit somewhere would be moving forward. They just aren’t. Bush’s lawsuit moved swiftly through the courts right out of the gate. We are almost a week later and there just isn’t any substance. I know the reports sound like there is, but when they bring it to court, they have nothing there. The judge is like, “Was the mistake corrected?”, “Are there any allegations that the correct vote wasn’t assigned to the right candidate?”, “Then what do you have here?” If there was something here, something would be getting at least through the first hearing. I know there are a ton of stories out there, and affidavits, and videos, but there is no substance behind them. Everyone is claiming that something happened, but they are not providing any shred of evidence that something did happen. There is no way that the Democrats could have pulled off something this big across the entire country, many in areas where the election officials and the secretary of states are republican. If they had, why did they loose House seats and why didn’t they gain Senate seats. Those would have been enormously easy to pull off fraudulently.

Everyone is claiming that something happened, but they are not providing any shred of evidence that something did happen.

That is simply not correct. There is a lot of evidence. Whether it’s enough to make any difference remains to be seen.

You know why? Because the main media outlets aren’t even reporting most if it. They decided it’s a waste of time.

And you know why Trump began predicting voting fraud, even last spring? Because folks began talking about mail-in voting. He knew we would have the mess we are in now. And here we are. And he was right yet again.

[Adam Blumer]

Everyone is claiming that something happened, but they are not providing any shred of evidence that something did happen.

That is simply not correct. There is a lot of evidence. Whether it’s enough to make any difference remains to be seen.

You know why? Because the main media outlets aren’t even reporting most if it. They decided it’s a waste of time.

And you know why Trump began predicting voting fraud, even last spring? Because folks began talking about mail-in voting. He knew we would have the mess we are in now. And here we are. And he was right yet again.

No evidence to date. Claims? Yes. Real evidence? None.

You are right about the media. You can find it on such reputable sites as Newsmax, Brietbart and others.

We have been doing mail-in voting for decades. What mess? Where is the court finding to overturn a single vote because of fraud? These are Republican judges and a conservative Supreme Court that is titled like we have never had in our lifetime. Where are the legal findings changing any counts?

Probably the entire plan around the fraud, is on Hunter Biden’s laptop that Rudy has. Give it some time, Rudy will find it on the laptop. I feel like I am in an episode of the X-Files.

[Bert Perry]

The MI Secretary of State’s office is very interesting. OK, let’s go with the official explanation; the 6000 ballot miscount was a failure to update software. OK, let’s assume revision n of the software fixed a problem that existed in at least one previous revision. Questions; how many previous revisions had this bug, why did this bug seem to benefit the Democrats, how many other races were impacted, how many other elections were impacted, how many other states had this flawed software, etc.?

And from the text, it seems like a simple algorithm whereby a series of files are read and tabulated. You don’t need to do calculus to count votes, after all. OK, this made it out of quality control…..how? Sorry, but the explanation generates more questions for me than it answers.

Here you go. Just so I wouldn’t be accused of bias sites. This is a non-partisan fact checking site. It’s rating on media bias checking sites, rate it as center, with limited to no bias in it’s wording. It factual reporting is listed as high. I also linked the official Secretary of State finding, a secretary who has publicly disclosed that they are adamant about pursuing election fraud. MI will certify its votes in 13 days. Unless someone can prove that there is substance here between now and then, it will be almost impossible to overturn the results. I also included the apnews article that goes a bit more into depth on the issue. With that said, even the Trump campaign abandoned this narrative. While they claimed fraud, there was no fraud. The Trump campaign has abandoned a lawsuit that was to pursue this. A big difference between a claim, a news conference, an affidavit and news stories, and actual facts.

https://factcheck.afp.com/michigan-county-vote-count-glitch-was-not-fra…

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/sos/Antrim_Fact_Check_707197_7.pdf

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-technology-voting-mic…