Report on Slavery and Racism in the History of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
Mohler: “This is an important day in the life of Southern Seminary. Just now, we release the ‘Report on Slavery and Racism in the History of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.’ It is a massive project and a moral reckoning.”- SBTS
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but it certainly does not include eternal groveling or incessant apologizing for things I can’t control (like my skin color) or things done by others supposedly in God’s name.
I am not sure why the term grovelling keeps being used. They acknowledged their sin which is appropriate. In the future they will likely make changes in keeping with repentance, as they should.
So why are people acting like Mohler et al are going to be making public statements and pleading for forgiveness from society for the next ten years? Is it just because they made an admission of guilt and others can’t or won’t do so? BJU admitted their fault on the interracial relationships and I don’t think have they have needed to say anything publicly since then. Even when people do drag that up, most people will admit that they did make the correction that was needed.
One of the biggest complaints about the FBFI, for example, is that they generally don’t admit when they screw something up. That’s why the kerfuffle a few months ago about BJU was noteworthy - because they actually owned a mistake and made it right. Nobody has made an issue about it since, and even I (as one of their biggest detractors) am acknowledging it positively.
Are we so far gone that we can’t own our mistakes and sins?
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
What cultural sins do you bear responsibility for?
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
Don, pretty simple. Here are some examples that I’ve seen.
The pastor who did my wedding noted when he was stationed in the South in the early 1970s—keep in mind here this is after Dr. King had been murdered and the Civil Rights Act had been passed—and all of the evangelical and fundamental churches in the area were still preaching on the need for racial segregation in the church.
A major fundamental institution in Greenville, South Carolina was defending a ban on interracial dating as recently as 18 years back. Even today, it’s unclear whether they’ve dealt with the root arguments they used.
On a minor fundamental message board we both belong to, whenever the subject of music comes up, there are a number of people who see no problem with arguing with no Scriptural support that white peoples’ music prior to Elvis Presley is OK, but that other peoples’ music, especially genre with roots in black Gospel, delta blues, and jazz, is inherently suspect of being worldly and sinful.
Personally, as an heir to a lot of the work that’s been done in fundagelicalism, I feel it’s necessary for me to speak up from time to time to reduce the chances that these sins are repeated, and quite frankly, I get my opportunities, and not just here.
Sure, there are people that will never be convinced that we’re now bearing good will. However, when you convince the 95% of others, you’ve just isolated the fringe. And even though that fringe apparently includes CNN, that’s what you can do.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Bert: Some of your comments give the impression that because someone disagrees with you that they are not as “smart” as you are and need help “figuring things out”. Perhaps you should back off comments & impressions like that. Doesn’t help your argument. I’ve lived in this community for over 24 yrs. I think I know what’s going on.
Wally Morris
Charity Baptist Church
Huntington, IN
amomentofcharity.blogspot.com
I’m not sure what TGC has to do with this…
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
On a minor fundamental message board we both belong to, whenever the subject of music comes up, there are a number of people who see no problem with arguing with no Scriptural support that white peoples’ music prior to Elvis Presley is OK, but that other peoples’ music, especially genre with roots in black Gospel, delta blues, and jazz, is inherently suspect of being worldly and sinful.
On what board was this argument made? I would love to see it.
[Joeb]Wally I don’t think Bert purposely does what your saying. Bert is just very intelligent and logical. So when he raises his arguments their done in a very logical and biblical convincing way. The problem is the receiving end that can’t overcome or keep up with Bert most of the time.
Um OK…
I sometimes think this site should be renamed either the Fundy Twightlight Zone or maybe Bert’s Wisdom (about everything).
Wally, perhaps instead of making an ad hominem attack, you could….say….deal with the evidence as presented? Are you telling me that the pastor who did my wedding was lying, or that BJU did not in fact have a ban on interracial dating until very recently, or that there’s no indication that a lot of musical conservatives’ preferences do indeed boil down to “white peoples’ music prior to Elvis is fine, other music not so much”? Or are you saying that those who are not “WASPs” should just forget about all of this when choosing churches? My experience suggests to me that there is indeed quite a bit of memory about these things in minority communities, and therefore we might want to see whether we can take a few visible steps away from positions like these.
Same for you, Greg. I’ve visited your personal site, and quite frankly I find a fair amount with which I agree with you. That noted, it’s mystifying why you don’t bring some of your expertise to bear here. You could contribute quite a bit.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
[Larry]On a minor fundamental message board we both belong to, whenever the subject of music comes up, there are a number of people who see no problem with arguing with no Scriptural support that white peoples’ music prior to Elvis Presley is OK, but that other peoples’ music, especially genre with roots in black Gospel, delta blues, and jazz, is inherently suspect of being worldly and sinful.
On what board was this argument made? I would love to see it.
This one; if you think about what kinds of music are generally proscribed by musical traditionalists, you’re looking at rock & roll, and like I said, the proscription boils down to “white peoples’ music prior to Elvis is OK, other peoples’ music not so much.” Not advocated in so many words—though Garlock and Gothard came pretty close and thankfully their rhetoric is being repented of, but at the end of the day, the meaning is precisely what I said, and it’s a meaning that a lot of people are going to catch.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
[Larry]On a minor fundamental message board we both belong to, whenever the subject of music comes up, there are a number of people who see no problem with arguing with no Scriptural support that white peoples’ music prior to Elvis Presley is OK, but that other peoples’ music, especially genre with roots in black Gospel, delta blues, and jazz, is inherently suspect of being worldly and sinful.
On what board was this argument made? I would love to see it.
For the record, I have no idea what Bert is talking about in the quote above.
Also for the record, I have to say I agree with GregH for perhaps the first time ever. Hope you can handle it, Greg.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
How many average degrees of separation are there before a music comes up on a Baptist fundamentalist website, no matter what the alleged topic under discussion is supposed to be?
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
[Don Johnson]Also for the record, I have to say I agree with GregH for perhaps the first time ever. Hope you can handle it, Greg.
Haha, rare but not the first :)
This one;
I have been here a long time and never seen any musical conservative make it about race. You have been here less time but you haven’t seen it either which you admit in this very post.
…, the proscription boils down to “white peoples’ music prior to Elvis is OK, other peoples’ music not so much.”
No. You have repeatedly showed in this discussion that you appear to not even know what the discussion is about. You have confused arguments and argumenters. You have confused issues. You have trotted out logical fallacies that are no such thing at all. And you have made false accusations.
That doesn’t help the conversation. It doesn’t help understanding. It’s the wrong thing to do.
Not advocated in so many words
This should have clued you in not to make the statement.
These are from Frank Garlock’s foundational work, “The Big Beat: A Rock Blast”
”All one needs to do is to make a trip to the place where rock ‘n roll has its roots (Africa, South America, and India) and observe the ceremonies which often go along with this kind of music—voodoo rituals, sex orgies, human sacrifice, and devil worship—to know the direction in which we are a nation are headed.” (page 22)
“In the jungles of Africa„ missionaries have for years told stories of strange, “super-natural” things that natives do under the influence of their music.” (pages 23-24)
Now get back to the subject–-or start yet another useless music discussion.
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
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