The Woman and the Pastor
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I just read Revelation 12-18 this afternoon, and the identity of the woman in Revelation 17-18 suddenly makes so much more sense in light of the West’s complete moral collapse. Bostock v. Clayton County is the final domino in a chain that has made me now fully realize the scope of the task for faithful pastors in the 21st century.
To read people argue, in confident legal prose, that discrimination “because of … sex” and discrimination “because of … sexual orientation” are analgous is astonishing, in a deceptive way. You get so caught up in parsing the intent of the actors and considering the legal arguments that you forget just how morally bankrupt this discussion even is. There is no longer even a pretense of a foundation to anchor morality and ethics in the public square. As I wrote in my discussion of the Obergefell decision, once a culture dynamites its objective foundation for values all that’s left to anchor us to morality is inertia.
Well, the inertia has indeed toppled the crumbling edifice with Bostock. The decision isn’t so awful, in and of itself. It’s awful because it signals that sanity has fallen. Once and for all, it has gone.
I knew this before, but I didn’t know it before.
The Church no longer has any common point of cultural contact left with the world. When the Church speaks the mystery of the faith to outsiders, it now speaks a foreign and hateful language. This means the Church’s job is not simply to explain the Christian faith to the world. It is that, but it’s more than that.
The Church’s task, more than ever, is now to explain and interpret reality to the world. God’s reality. This will take educated, well-read ministers who understand history in a deep and meaningful way.
- Not in a social media meme kinda way.
- Not in a “I watch Tucker on Fox, and he’s right!” kinda way.
- Not in a “Watch Ben Shapiro DESTROY the libs” kinda way.
I mean real history. Real engagement with big ideas and big thinkers. A real sense of human history, and mistakes of the past. We’ll need pastors who understand culture. Who pay attention to what’s happening in the world and can interpret it for the Church and for the world. I’m actually thinking a graduate degree in liberal studies/humanities may be more important than a PhD.
Os Guinness has written that the West is a “cut-flower” civilization, in the sense that it’s like a withering flower ripped from the Christian worldview, slowly dying in a vase on the countertop.
No longer.
Now, the West is a dead flower civilization. Now, the Church must be the institution that stands in the gap, shakes it head sadly, and patiently and winsomely explains the facts of reality to a very confused world.
Carl Trueman wrote a few days ago:
If Christians do not understand the wider context, then they will continue to underestimate the true depth of the cultural problem, be perplexed at the speed of apparent change, and be disturbed by new developments. And that will make it very hard to navigate this world as both good citizens and good stewards of the gospel.
Who is equal to this task? My goodness, who can be equal to this task? When I read the transcript of oral arguments from Bostock, I feel overwhelmed. What tortured combination of forces have combined to produce the kind of moral confusion and rebellion against God that we see in those pages? It’s too much. No one person is equipped to interpret this kind of madness for the Church.
I am more well-read than many pastors. That may be hubris, but I suspect not. I am overwhelmed by the task. I feel unequal to it. There’s so much!
The woman in Revelation 17-18 represents man in community apart from God. Like a chameleon, she’s taken many different forms over the years. But, she is organized society without God. In the West, she’s secular humanism. But, I know even as I write this that it’s not quite right. It’s a religion of sorts, but one I have trouble getting my arms around. It seems to combine a narcissism unique to this digital age, abysmal ignorance of just about everything, a “God as divine butler” theology among professing Christians, critical race theory, intersectionality, and hatred of God … all combined into one toxic casserole. I don’t know what to call it.
This is why I feel overwhelmed. I almost wish I were not so bookish, so I’d be content with memes on social media and wouldn’t appreciate the depth of the challenges that lay ahead. I do know, however, that the Lord destroys the woman in Revelation 18, and returns triumphantly in the next chapter. That’s nice!
May God help the Church in the 21st century in the West; especially its elders. Especially me.
Tyler Robbins 2016 v2
Tyler Robbins is a bi-vocational pastor at Sleater Kinney Road Baptist Church, in Olympia WA. He also works in State government. He blogs as the Eccentric Fundamentalist.
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I appreciate this article Tyler.
Wally Morris
Huntington, IN
Thanks, Tyler, for this helpful analysis. Yours is a well considered perspective. I think you understand the current situation very well. My only recommendation would be to resist the spirit of pessimism. Yup, its bad, really, really bad. But all according with God’s perfect design and infallible control. Our God reigns! Christ shall have dominion, and we are privileged to partner with Him in what He is doing presently, and reign with Him when He brings it all to final consummation.
G. N. Barkman
Just for information: University of Notre Dame in South Bend, IN has recently hired Pete Buttigieg to teach at the school. A Catholic university using a practicing homosexual to teach its students.
Wally Morris
Huntington, IN
@Wally: As part of my program at Westminster in Philly, I needed to take 2 classes at another institution, preferably one outside the Westminster worldview, so I wound up at nearby (Catholic) Villanova for two classes. The teacher was perfectly OK with homosexual practice, homosexual marriage, etc. So were many of the students in the graduate ethics courses I took, one of whom went to Liberty undergrad and is now known as a kinda-conservative homosexual magazine writer; and an older homosexual Quaker literature teacher from NJ. My most theologically conservative counterpart in the classes was Eastern Orthodox. Catholicism is not at all unified on fundamental points of doctrine and ethics.
Michael Osborne
Philadelphia, PA
[M. Osborne]@Wally: As part of my program at Westminster in Philly, I needed to take 2 classes at another institution, preferably one outside the Westminster worldview, so I wound up at nearby (Catholic) Villanova for two classes. The teacher was perfectly OK with homosexual practice, homosexual marriage, etc. So were many of the students in the graduate ethics courses I took, one of whom went to Liberty undergrad and is now known as a kinda-conservative homosexual magazine writer; and an older homosexual Quaker literature teacher from NJ. My most theologically conservative counterpart in the classes was Eastern Orthodox. Catholicism is not at all unified on fundamental points of doctrine and ethics.
Thanks for the info. Yes, I know the Catholic inconsistency. Just giving an illustration of the problem.
Wally Morris
Huntington, IN
But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.
If this is Paul’s description of people who profess to be Christians “in the last days,” what do you expect from people who’ve rejected Christianity altogether? I don’t understand why conservative Christian pundits are “shocked, shocked to find that cultural disintegration is going on in here!” The modern Christian church is almost as worldly as its surrounding culture. The modern Christian church has tolerated and excused sexually immoral, pugnacious, abusive, and arrogant men as pastors. It has replaced preaching the Bible with meeting felt needs. It has stopped catechizing its children and teens and replaced biblical literacy with nerf wars and sleep overs. If most churches in America closed their doors today, there would be very little difference in society.
Face it, we are salt that has lost its savor. We’re no longer seasoning the world. We’re now being trampled under foot. Not until our churches become counter cultural will we begin to make an impact on our society.
But, that will take courage, faithfulness, determination, and suffering. These are qualities the modern American church knows very little about.
I don’t see Bostock as particularly significant, myself. But I agree that pastors need to be more broadly educated. It’s not enough to be a specialist in the Scriptures and theology (though many are not even that); to be effective, pastors need to understand the times, the culture, and the legitimacy/importance/nature of all the disciplines their congregations are involved in. The reason this is so important (besides the unity of truth) is that you can’t apply Scripture well to what you don’t understand.
Certainly we need more believers (and pastors) educated at least basically in constitutional law… and political philosophy in general.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
[Aaron Blumer]I don’t see Bostock as particularly significant, myself. But I agree that pastors need to be more broadly educated. It’s not enough to be a specialist in the Scriptures and theology (though many are not even that); to be effective, pastors need to understand the times, the culture, and the legitimacy/importance/nature of all the disciplines their congregations are involved in. The reason this is so important (besides the unity of truth) is that you can’t apply Scripture well to what you don’t understand.
Certainly we need more believers (and pastors) educated at least basically in constitutional law… and political philosophy in general.
Interesting perspective, Aaron. I don’t see Paul commanding Timothy to spend time learning how to exegete the culture. I do see him commanding Timothy to spend time learning and teaching others how to exegete Scripture. Yes, we as believers are to “walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time.” But, the issue with the church and many pastors is that they’ve spent a lot of time exegeting the culture, but they are less skilled in exegeting the Scriptures. The best evidence for that is the dumbing down of the MDiv program in many evangelical seminaries. Many see learning and using the original languages as superfluous. “That’s why we have Bible software like Logos,” they remark. As a result, many pastors are not well equipped to rightly handle the Word of God. Sure, these pastors can be relevant, hip, and worldly-wise, but they can’t exegete a passage of Scripture.
Simply stated, many pastors are failing at their primary task given to them by God:
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.
Regarding “Catholic” educational institutions, it’s been a proverb among traditionalist Catholics—generally those who take the Vatican’s word on birth control and abortion seriously, to draw a picture—that there is sadly little Catholicism at the historically Catholic colleges and universities. For that matter, even non-traditionalist Catholics often scratch their heads at the antics at Notre Dame and such, if my interactions with them are any indication.
Regarding the need—or lack thereof—of pastors to “exegete the culture”, as Tom says, it’s worth noting that Paul does at times quote the Greek philosophers and “Oral Toral” texts, and (see Acts 16) he occasionally uses Roman law quite deftly. For that matter, if pastors are indeed going to do the right thing and learn the ancient languages to a degree, that also means that they are going from time to time to be confronted with how the ancient pagans used words—Paul was after all following the culture that had given rise to Homer and the like. And then you’ve got the fact that from Augustine on, the history of the Church is intertwined with imperial Rome—if you’re going to understand the New Testament and Church fathers in context, you’ve got to understand some of that.
And do the central point—that the whore of Babylon is indeed simply the spirit of our age—let’s just say I’m chewing on that one. Certainly the fact that the kings of the earth prostitute themselves with her would seem to indicate that whatever she is, she’s popular.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
[Bert Perry]Regarding “Catholic” educational institutions, it’s been a proverb among traditionalist Catholics—generally those who take the Vatican’s word on birth control and abortion seriously, to draw a picture—that there is sadly little Catholicism at the historically Catholic colleges and universities. For that matter, even non-traditionalist Catholics often scratch their heads at the antics at Notre Dame and such, if my interactions with them are any indication.
I received my MBA from the University of Dayton, a nationally ranked Marianist Catholic institution. They are full-on LGBTQ inclusive.
Regarding the need—or lack thereof—of pastors to “exegete the culture”, as Tom says, it’s worth noting that Paul does at times quote the Greek philosophers and “Oral Toral” texts, and (see Acts 16) he occasionally uses Roman law quite deftly. For that matter, if pastors are indeed going to do the right thing and learn the ancient languages to a degree, that also means that they are going from time to time to be confronted with how the ancient pagans used words—Paul was after all following the culture that had given rise to Homer and the like. And then you’ve got the fact that from Augustine on, the history of the Church is intertwined with imperial Rome—if you’re going to understand the New Testament and Church fathers in context, you’ve got to understand some of that.
As I’ve mentioned a couple times in other posts, for the past year and a half I’ve been reading through what some consider to be the primary works of the Western literary canon. I began with Homer last January. I’m currently finishing up Plutarch’s Lives and Moralia. So far I’ve read the major works of Homer, Hesiod, Pindar, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, Aristophanes, Herodotus, Thucydides, Plato, Aristotle, Menander, “Longinus,” Callimachus, Theocritus, and “Aesop.” Once I finish Plutarch and read Lucian, I will have completed the ancient and Hellenistic Greek authors in the canon. My goal is to read through the primary works through Dante. One thing that is glaringly obvious to me after reading these authors is that human depravity hasn’t changed much in 2,600 years. The immorality, decadence, and lawlessness that are celebrated today in our society were celebrated more openly 2,600 years ago in Athens, Greece. Thus, if you want to exegete the culture, all you have to do is be a student of history and “know thyself.”
Again, I’m not sure why we’re surprised at the current state of our society. What I’m surprised by is the appalling lack of character, integrity, courage, faithfulness, and preparedness of men who regularly stand in our pulpits.
I almost posted my follow-up piece, “Explaining Reality to the World,” on SI instead of this one. But, this other piece offers some more thoughts about understanding our culture.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
Interesting perspective, Aaron. I don’t see Paul commanding Timothy to spend time learning how to exegete the culture. I do see him commanding Timothy to spend time learning and teaching others how to exegete Scripture. Yes, we as believers are to “walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time.” But, the issue with the church and many pastors is that they’ve spent a lot of time exegeting the culture, but they are less skilled in exegeting the Scriptures.
On the first part of that, 2 things: (1) unless one takes the position that biblical preaching and teaching consists only of explaining the text—and that without reference to daily experience where we live—application is part of it. And you can’t apply a Scripture you understand to a situation you do not understand. This is logical necessity. The passage also does not instruct Timothy to inhale regularly… or take care of his voice. But you can’t preach or teach without doing both of those.
(2) Where does it say spend time teaching others “to exegete Scripture” or, more to the point, “only to exegete Scripture”?
Both NT and OT are full of principles that are communicated with a clear expectation that they ought to be applied.
But the need to understand the culture and apply Scripture to it is pretty obvious if one does some systematic theology. And how does one obey 2 Cor. 10:5, for example, without knowledge of some “thoughts” to make “captive”? The “test all things” of 1 Thess. 5:21 can be read as applying only to prophecy (count me skeptical on that point), but Phil 1:9-10 can’t be read that narrowly. A statement like “approve the things that are excellent” has no meaning without knowledge of what to apply it to.
On the second part…
But, the issue with the church and many pastors is that they’ve spent a lot of time exegeting the culture, but they are less skilled in exegeting the Scriptures.
This has not been my experience. I know it happens, but not in the circles I grew up in or have served in all my life.
Anyway, I’m not saying “neglect the Scriptures to better understand the culture.” I’m saying “Understand the Scriptures and don’t neglect understanding how to apply them.”
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
T. Howard wrote:
I don’t see Paul commanding Timothy to spend time learning how to exegete the culture.
Vern Poythress says that “meaning” includes sense, import / significance, and application; and the implication is that without application, you don’t fully understand the meaning. Example:
“Thou shalt not steal.”
- Sense: Don’t take what doesn’t belong to you.
- Significance: doctrines re: God’s creation, Providence, blessing, in which the idea of “property” lives.
- Application (for a farmer): Don’t take your neighbor’s chickens.
If a farmer agreed with “don’t take what doesn’t belong to you” but thought it was OK to take the neighbor’s chickens, we’d say the farmer was missing something about the meaning.
Anyway…that said: Francis Schaeffer said that he observed that men graduating from seminary were great with the answers, but had no idea what the questions were. I think that’s another way of saying that you don’t fully grasp the meaning of Scripture itself until you can match it up with real-world applications, compare it and contrast it with alternative ideas, etc. Romans 10 came alive for me when I started sharing the gospel with Roman Catholic friends many years ago, because I saw Paul’s description of Jews going about “establishing their own righteousness” played out before my eyes.
Michael Osborne
Philadelphia, PA
[Aaron Blumer]Interesting perspective, Aaron. I don’t see Paul commanding Timothy to spend time learning how to exegete the culture. I do see him commanding Timothy to spend time learning and teaching others how to exegete Scripture. Yes, we as believers are to “walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time.” But, the issue with the church and many pastors is that they’ve spent a lot of time exegeting the culture, but they are less skilled in exegeting the Scriptures.
On the first part of that, 2 things: (1) unless one takes the position that biblical preaching and teaching consists only of explaining the text—and that without reference to daily experience where we live—application is part of it. And you can’t apply a Scripture you understand to a situation you do not understand. This is logical necessity. The passage also does not instruct Timothy to inhale regularly… or take care of his voice. But you can’t preach or teach without doing both of those.
Aaron, I’m not arguing against the appropriate application of Scripture. Of course, we need to apply Scripture. Any pastor who is shepherding his people well (i.e. being involved in their lives) and understands his own human depravity should be able to appropriately apply the Scriptures in his preaching. However, what I’m arguing against is the constant drumbeat we hear for pastors to be and do everything other than preaching God’s Word well. More pointedly, a pastor doesn’t need to understand constitutional law or political philosophy to fulfill God’s command for him to rightly handle the word of truth and to preach the Word. A pastor doesn’t need to spend time studying the latest agricultural trends and methodologies to be able to apply God’s Word to the farmers in his congregation. Etc. Our church leaders and congregants have lost their savor not because they aren’t relevant but because they aren’t holy and because they don’t understand God’s Word (Hosea 4:6).
(2) Where does it say spend time teaching others “to exegete Scripture” or, more to the point, “only to exegete Scripture”?Both NT and OT are full of principles that are communicated with a clear expectation that they ought to be applied.
But the need to understand the culture and apply Scripture to it is pretty obvious if one does some systematic theology. And how does one obey 2 Cor. 10:5, for example, without knowledge of some “thoughts” to make “captive”? The “test all things” of 1 Thess. 5:21 can be read as applying only to prophecy (count me skeptical on that point), but Phil 1:9-10 can’t be read that narrowly. A statement like “approve the things that are excellent” has no meaning without knowledge of what to apply it to.
Again, I’m not arguing against appropriate application of Scripture. To answer your question though, 2 Timothy 2:1-2, is Paul’s command to Timothy to pass on what he has learned from Paul. What did Timothy learn from Paul? How to rightly understand and proclaim what the Scriptures teach, particularly as it relates to the person and work of Jesus Christ (2 Timothy 3:14-17).
On the second part…But, the issue with the church and many pastors is that they’ve spent a lot of time exegeting the culture, but they are less skilled in exegeting the Scriptures.
This has not been my experience. I know it happens, but not in the circles I grew up in or have served in all my life.
Anyway, I’m not saying “neglect the Scriptures to better understand the culture.” I’m saying “Understand the Scriptures and don’t neglect understanding how to apply them.”
My comments are regarding the broader evangelical landscape, even the conservative evangelical landscape. There is always a pull for churches to be “more relevant” and to meet felt needs. What that usually results in is a deemphasis on the preaching and teaching of God’s Word as well as a dumbing down of biblical literacy among our people.
[M. Osborne] Anyway…that said: Francis Schaeffer said that he observed that men graduating from seminary were great with the answers, but had no idea what the questions were. I think that’s another way of saying that you don’t fully grasp the meaning of Scripture itself until you can match it up with real-world applications, compare it and contrast it with alternative ideas, etc.
And, how did all of Schaeffer’s philosophizing help him apply Scripture to how he led his family?
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