A Tale of Two Colleges

NickImage

This week brings fascinating news from two colleges. The two institutions are facing almost opposite situations, and the contrast between them is both remarkable and illustrative. Because change occurs constantly, Christian organizations are constantly required to apply their principles to new situations. Cedarville University and Faith Baptist Bible College provide a clear contrast in terms of how new applications might take place.

The school that is now Cedarville University started out as a Bible institute in Cleveland. During the early 1950s it acquired the name and campus of Cedarville College, formerly a Presbyterian school. For many years, Cedarville College staked out its identity as a fundamentalist, Baptist institution. Under the leadership of James T. Jeremiah, it was one of the flagship schools identified with the Regular Baptist movement.

In 1978, Paul Dixon became president of the college. He brought with him a vision to make Cedarville into a world-class university. Regular Baptists, however, had neither the numerical nor the economic strength to fulfill his dream. Dixon needed a larger constituency and broader appeal, and in pursuit of these goals he began to downplay some of the distinctives that Regular Baptists thought important. There was a softening of ecclesiastical separation as the platform featured a broader variety of evangelicals. There was an increasing openness and even friendliness toward the more current trends in popular culture. There was even a shifting of the criteria for faculty selection. By the early 1990s, Cedarville professors were putting themselves publicly on record for their (belated) support of the Equal Rights Amendment—legislation that was almost universally opposed by conservative Christians of all sorts.

As Cedarville broadened its appeal, it experienced growing tensions with Regular Baptists. These tensions came to a head when, at the end of Dixon’s tenure, Cedarville formally identified with the Southern Baptist state convention in Ohio. Under the new president, William Brown, the university refused to endorse the Statement of Purpose of the General Association of Regular Baptist Churches, a requirement for partnering institutions. For both these reasons, the GARBC terminated its partnership with Cedarville in 2006.

The divorce was ugly, at least on the Cedarville side. Since the GARBC national conference was held in Michigan that year, Cedarville supporters were transported by busloads to try to overwhelm the vote. At one point some threatened to rush the platform if a particular parliamentary ruling did not go their way. In the end, however, the association had the votes to remove Cedarville from partnership.

Shortly thereafter, scandal erupted on campus as a couple of the most conservative tenured professors were terminated suddenly. Alarmed constituents formed watchdog groups and began to spread word of theological aberrations. Most Cedarville constituents found these charges difficult to believe, but the university continued to show signs of movement away from its fundamentalist roots. In an attempt to reassure conservatives, in 2011 the university adopted white papers dealing with creation, with justification, and with divine omniscience.

The situation, however, continued to deteriorate. In 2012, a professor was fired for teaching that the opening chapters of Genesis were non-historical. Then two philosophy professors published that they could not vote Republican since they supported universal health care, decreased defense spending, increased spending on social programs, and economic redistribution. Consequently, the question was no longer whether Cedarville should be considered a fundamentalist institution, but whether it should even be considered a conservative one.

In response, the board placed the philosophy major under review and indicated its intention to end the program. In October, President Brown tendered his resignation, followed by a key vice president in January 2013—many believed under pressure from the board. In response to concerns that Cedarville might be moving in a fundamentalist direction, board chairman Lorne Sharnberg was quoted as saying that Cedarville “isn’t moving anywhere. We’re staying right where we’ve always been.” Ironically, these are the very words that the Cedarville leadership used to say when it was moving away from fundamentalism.

While these events have been taking place at Cedarville, Faith Baptist Bible College has been facing a difficult decision of its own. The school long ago staked out a position that was traditionally dispensationalist, strongly Baptist, and conservative in its appropriation of contemporary popular culture. It has required its students to become members in churches that share these commitments.

Through the years, one of the congregations that allied itself with Faith was Saylorville Baptist Church. Dozens of students and several staff are members at Saylorville, and in many ways (for example, its commitment to evangelism) Saylorville models values that Faith shares. Over the years, however, Saylorville has adopted an increasingly contemporary ministry, and it has recently dropped the word Baptist from its name. As Saylorville has made these moves, Faith has felt considerable pressure to soften its commitment to its principles and to broaden its appeal.

Decades ago, one of the presidents of Faith Baptist Bible College (David Nettleton) argued that when Christians disagree, they must either limit their message or limit their fellowship. This past week, Faith’s board made the decision to stand by its message and allow its fellowship to shrink. Students and staff will no longer be permitted to join Saylorville Church.

This may represent the hardest decision that the administration and board at Faith has ever made. They are not angry with Saylorville. They love its pastor and its staff, and they believe that Saylorville is in some ways a good model. They are not denouncing the church, but they are separating from it at one level. They are making this move because, if they do not, their principles will be obscured. They are aware that the decision will be costly.

Cedarville and Faith represent opposite approaches to the application of principles in changing situations. Cedarville committed itself to wider influence and was willing to sacrifice principles in order to obtain it. Faith has committed itself to maintain its principles, and it is willing to accept narrower influence in order to uphold them. Both have responded to change, but they have responded in opposite directions.

Granted, sometimes Christians hold mistaken principles that they ought to revise. Simply to abandon principles in favor of increased influence, however, is a devil’s bargain. Once principles have been obscured, they become very difficult to clarify. Both Faith and Cedarville will face some unhappy constituents. Cedarville’s will be unhappy because their school’s position is not clear. Faith’s will be unhappy because their school’s is. The difference is this: no one is attracted to obscurity and uncertainty, but some may be attracted to a clearly stated position when it is consistently maintained.

Christ Jesus Lay in Death’s Strong Bands
Martin Luther (1483-1546), translated by Richard Massie (1800-1887)

Christ Jesus lay in death’s strong bands,
For our offenses given;
But now at God’s right hand he stands
And brings us life from heaven;
Therefore let us joyful be
And sing to God right thankfully
Loud songs of hallelujah. Hallelujah!

It was a strange and dreadful strife
When life and death contended;
The victory remained with life,
The reign of death was ended;
Holy Scripture plainly saith
That death is swallowed up by death,
His sting is lost for ever. Hallelujah!

Here the true Paschal Lamb we see,
Whom God so freely gave us;
He died on the accursed tree—
So strong his love!—to save us.
See, his blood doth mark our door;
Faith points to it, death passes o’er,
And Satan cannot harm us. Hallelujah!

So let us keep the festival
Whereto the Lord invites us;
Christ is himself the Joy of all,
The Sun that warms and lights us.
By his grace he doth impart
Eternal sunshine to the heart;
The night of sin is ended. Hallelujah!

Then let us feast this joyful day
On Christ, the Bread of heaven;
The Word of grace hath purged away
The old and evil leaven.
Christ alone our souls will feed,
He is our meat and drink indeed;
Faith lives upon no other. Hallelujah!

Discussion

In my opinion this has gotten off topic. The real question is whether it is ok for a Christian institution to compromise biblical standards to grow their university. The same question could be asked of churches today too. The biblical answer is clearly, no. One college, Cedarville, has while Faith has decided not to. If you judge a universities success by size and amount of majors offered, then the most godly churches must also be the biggest ones with the most programs to offer.

Kudos to Ben for his answer in post no. 47, and thanks for your service to our country! :)

To get back closer to the topic at hand, I would add that FBTS gave me the same type of academic experience that Ben describes. It was not in any way, shape, form or fashion a repeat of Bible college. I already had a tremendous foundation of Biblical knowledge, going back to kindergarten in my Lutheran grade school, and still learned more in seminary than I can begin to describe.

Which brings me back to Susan’s posts: I respect your thoughts a lot Susan, and truly have great admiration for good homeschooling!! However, seminary ain’t homeschool. Historically, the M.Div. program has always been compared to medical school and (probably more aptly) law school.

Certainly there are many things that cannot be learned in seminary; in our IFB circles, however, that point has probably been overemphasized. There are a lot more things that have to be learned in seminary.

Which, by the way, is why I am also opposed to the contemporary trend of finding ways to (let me be charitable) streamline seminary to make it shorter, more practical, etc.

FBTS offered me a traditional theological education for which I shall always be grateful to God.

Church Ministries Representative, serving in the Midwest, for The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry

I think the years spend in seminary classrooms, however, as inefficient, and often ineffective, in the sense of practical application and guided practice, and in the sense of verifying other important qualities of ministers, such as the aforementioned 1 Tim. 3 and the fruits of the Spirit.

And you know this how? By personal experience? By what?

I found the years spent in seminary classrooms to be invaluable training for ministry. And having been in vocational ministry on both sides of seminary, I know the difference not because I have thought about it or read about, but because I lived it.

And we are off topic here a bit to be sure.

[Jim]

[James K]

[Jim]

I agree with Kevin,

  • I think that seminary is essential for Pastoral training
  • But I’m not so sure that any undergraduate would suffice prior to seminary

You say this Jim based on what biblical evidence? If only a seminary can fulfill such functions, then the church is beyond hope and has already failed. So much for advancing the church. Certain people have buried it and erected another structure.

James K., my view is not based on biblical evidence and it has flaws.

I see that Pastors need (by way of training):

  • Sufficient education (and I am thinking beyond a Bachelor’s degree) to prove their academic mettle. Why: Because, at least in the US, approximately 30% have a Bachelor’s degree.
  • Ability and training in the languages. Greek the very least. Many secular colleges also offer Greek.
  • Training in history broadly and Church history specifically
  • Ecclesiastical training with an emphasis on the doctrinal convictions of one’s denomination
  • Age … (comes with time). I have a view that few 28 year olds are hardly “elders”. Yes we are not to “despise [their] youth” but honestly many men in their late 20’s are still into video games and other foolish things. I won’t follow a goofy guy!
  • Experience: And I don’t mean a church internship. I mean life-experience: Marriage … parenting … paying bills … balancing a budget … fender-benders … the flu … etc …
  • Apprenticeship: One on one working with pastors and deacons
  • Having a trade of some kind would be helpful for many men because while no one aspires to be bi-vocational, having to find a job to pay bills often happens
  • Seminary fails in these areas: Aging, experience, and apprenticeship. Additionally a seminary degree does not make one a leader. Seminary can’t do that. One failure of the seminary system is that they think they can make the man … but they can only make the academic-man!

Frankly Jim, part of the problem is that what you are saying is not based on the Bible. It is at best a pragmatic solution for churches who don’t follow the Biblical paradigm. We render the commands of God of no effect that way. We take what he actually commanded pastors to do and given them nonessential stuff to do thus limiting their time to obey God. How is that different than Jesus’ rebuke of the pharisaical handling God’s word?

Academic mettle is a non issue and not necessary. What matters is whether a person knows the Scripture and believes what God has said. That man will be a faithful pastor. Remember who Jesus recruited as his disciples.

Again, I study the languages, but this is not essential (despite the college profs who all insist it is). Bunyan didn’t know greek either.

You are calling church history a need? Really?

One does not need to learn the denomination, only the scripture. Too many get caught up in their denomination rather than Scripture as it is.

I agree there must be maturity, but age doesn’t determine that, sadly. Too many older men are absolute fools on their own issues. It isn’t video games (probably), but it might be money or counseling.

This is close to an actual requirement, managing one’s household.

The biblical model is to have younger men within the church to learn from the older men.

Meh, maybe, maybe not. Probably a good idea, but not a need.

1 Kings 8:60 - so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God and that there is no other.

James,

And how many John Bunyans have you produced in your ministry?

I thought so.

Kevin

[Kevin T. Bauder] Can a person be a Democrat and a fundamentalist? Not intelligently, no.

So what is the fundamentalist option?

I didn’t know that fundamentalists were all agreed on how their theological convictions translated into the social/political sphere.

Statements like this one are one of many that force young people, who once claimed to be fundamentalist, to look elsewhere for leadership.

IK

Ecclesia semper reformanda est

[Larry]

I am shocked at the brazen snobbery of this idea.

Unfortunately, we are not shocked at your language.

The complaints by some that a pastor just doesn’t have the time to accomplish his biblical mandate is a cop out. God knows exactly how much time is in the day and what a pastor is to accomplish with it. The problem is that so many opt for the single pastor model and then complain about a lack of time. If they would follow the NT pattern of plural elders (no church is ever said to have only one elder), then the time argument would be eliminated and no obstacle would exist to do their job. Alas, fidelity to truth is not popular.

First, time is not the only reason. Expertise is another, probably more primary, reason.

Second, many seminaries are functions of a local church (such as Detroit), and carry out these things in this way.

Third, the “single pastor model” has already been solidly established as an acceptable (though perhaps not ideal) model. To say that no church is every said to have only one elder is not really to say much at all, since the number of examples is small, and there is no clear evidence about how elders worked in church designated by cities. So while plurality may be good and even preferable, it not mandated by the Bible, as we can see by reading the Bible and noticing the lack of mandate for it.

Fourth, this has nothing to do with fidelity to the truth. But since you bring it up, 1 Tim 5:1 might be a verse worth some time in meditation.

I am not sure of your intent by your first comment ,but frankly I couldn’t care less. Snobbery is snobbery. Such an obvious, unbiblical statement was easily dismissed.

First, expertise is rather tricky isn’t it? Who has determined how much expertise a person must have? Somewhere, someone has decided that an MDiv is enough. Why not a DMin too? Of course there are those who do think that. You have set an artificial standard outside of Scripture. That is of course your prerogative.

Second, Detroit only partially fulfills this, as they take young men from other churches and have determined what they need for them to be qualified ministers.

Third, single pastor model is acceptable to a great many people. For that matter, so is the single bishop acting on behalf of God. I don’t care what is acceptable outside of Scripture. You seem to think it does matter though. That is of course your prerogative. The NT plainly states that every church had elders. If it said that every church had one pastor, you would be all over that. It doesn’t, so you arbitrarily determined it doesn’t have any real weight. Maybe one of the qualifying courses for minister had the single pastor model as best and that is how you were trained.

Fourth, it is about fidelity to the truth. If pastors were less political about their power, and followed the biblical model, then the duties given to them would be focused on instead of matters that simply take up his time. It is all about the truth. Your church doesn’t follow it, so you make excuses for why you can’t do certain things you are commanded to do.

Finally, I am pretty sure you don’t really want to apply 1 Tim 5:1 to this. If you were serious, then I will be even more sad for our institutions of “higher” learning.

1 Kings 8:60 - so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God and that there is no other.

is very much part of this topic. If the authority of the church is, in fact, Scripturally paramount in matters of teaching and training for the ministry, in the guidance and training of pastors and teachers, then all of these tensions and conflicts would be resolved by the local church under whose authority they operate. But because they are outside of and sometimes treated as superior to the local church, we have churches who assume a diploma=qualifications (as in a, “XYZ University would not give a diploma to this guy if he wasn’t qualified” attitude) and Christian organizations that operate without any accountability to a local church.

Bro. Paul- I’m not comparing homeschooling to seminary point-for-point, but learning is learning, whether you are flying a space shuttle or pruning a tree or pastoring a church, and it is not way outside of the box for people to be self-motivated, self-directed, and to a large degree, self-taught. In specialties such as the medical or legal fields, practical skills are acquired by serving as an intern, after ‘textbook’ knowledge has been mastered, and people are weeded out who can’t cut it because someone is one-on-one working with them, determining whether or not they are fit to continue on that field/specialty.

The thing with seminary is, our ‘textbook’ is Scripture, and the qualifications are more than the ability to memorize, being good at math, or eye/hand coordination and dexterity. There is a spiritual component that comes into play, and if we are talking training men for ministry, the spiritual part, IMO, should come first.

This may be a rabbit trail of sorts, but after reading thread after thread about church/college conflicts, I think it is a worthy question.

I’ve said all about the Cedarville situation that I feel adequate to say, and thus, having drained my miniscule puddle of knowledge, I retire.

[Kevin T. Bauder]

James,

And how many John Bunyans have you produced in your ministry?

I thought so.

Kevin

So your response to me pointing out your obvious, elitist overstatement is to insult? Check yourself Kevin.

1 Kings 8:60 - so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God and that there is no other.

I am not sure of your intent by your first comment ,but frankly I couldn’t care less. Snobbery is snobbery. Such an obvious, unbiblical statement was easily dismissed.

My intent was probably clear enough, but if not, I will be happy to be explicit. Your response to Kevin was in direct disobedience to God’s command in 1 Tim 5:1. He is an older man (though not ancient), and you did not appeal to him as a father; you sharply rebuked him. God said not to do that. Do you take Scripture seriously or no? It’s hard for me to imagine you would talk to your father that way. So I appeal to you as a brother to apply 1 Tim 5:1 to your interactions here. Not being able to care less may be a dangerous spot to be about this type of issue.

Having civil and respectful conversation is important here.

First, expertise is rather tricky isn’t it?

No, not really. It’s pretty easy. And I didn’t mention an MDiv here. In fact, I mentioned no degrees at all. I only mentioned knowledge. The MDiv is artificial, but it typically covers a wide range of theological training that pastors need. You don’t have to have an MDiv. You do have to know truth.

Second, Detroit only partially fulfills this, as they take young men from other churches and have determined what they need for them to be qualified ministers.

That wasn’t my impression, but of course I only attended there. They don’t “take young men from other churches.” Young men come voluntarily from other churches, and most (if not all) transfer their membership to a local church where they are involved in the ministry alongside a pastor. And DBTS doesn’t determine what they need to be qualified ministers. They determine what they need to graduate. DBTS allows the young men’s churches to determine if they are qualified.

The NT plainly states that every church had elders.

No it doesn’t. It doesn’t say anything about “every church.” In fact most churches it doesn’t even mention. And I am in favor of multiple elders. I am not in favor of adding to Scripture to make that mandatory because Scripture doesn’t make it mandatory.

Fourth, it is about fidelity to the truth. If pastors were less political about their power, and followed the biblical model, then the duties given to them would be focused on instead of matters that simply take up his time. It is all about the truth.

That doesn’t make sense, so I am not sure what you are trying to say. But whether or not a man goes to seminary to get theological training is not a matter of truth. It is a matter of practice. The Bible requires men to be trained. It does not specify exactly how that training is to take place. Truth can be gained in seminary. It can be taught in the pastor’s office. It can be gained through a book and a bunch of youtube videos I guess. But I believe seminaries should be part of a local church.

Your church doesn’t follow it, so you make excuses for why you can’t do certain things you are commanded to do.

How do you know our church doesn’t follow the truth? You don’t know anything about our church.

Finally, I am pretty sure you don’t really want to apply 1 Tim 5:1 to this. If you were serious, then I will be even more sad for our institutions of “higher” learning.

Actually, I am deadly serious. I think the Scriptures matter, and I think the truth matters. And I think we need to obey it. When you do not treat elders in accordance with the Scripture, I think it matters.

James,

This is why I’ve avoided SI for years.

Let’s get clear. There are insults, and there are pointings out of the obvious. Sometimes people who have overlooked the obvious feel insulted when it is pointed out to them. That does not make it an insult.

You might remember something else that’s pretty obvious. Nothing is proven by appealing to the example of a millennial genius. It’s like that kid (we’ve all met him) who argues that he doesn’t need to take math because Einstein flunked out of school. Well, if he’s another Einstein, maybe he doesn’t.

What a minister needs, he needs, however he gets it.

Anyone who is a millennial genius has my permission to skip college and seminary and go straight to the hall of ministerial fame.

If one is not a millennial genius, then appealing to the example of one in order to excuse a deficiency of training (or, worse yet, to encourage others to neglect proper training) is itself a pretty brazen form of snobbery.

A minister who cannot handle the text of Scripture will never be able to do what God calls him to do. The skills for handling Scripture are precisely those I’ve described. Without those skills, a pastor will only be able to echo what he has heard from others, and he will often find that he is not in a position to judge for himself whether what he has heard is really so.

The minister who cannot apply the text of Scripture will never be able to do what God calls him to do. The skills for applying Scripture include those I’ve described, though obviously they include more. All ministers need more than they could ever get in seminary. Most of them, however, cannot effectively make do with less. We once tried that route, and we are still suffering the consequences.

Now, as far as I am concerned, this bit of unpleasantness is over. In the old days when we used to have standalone BBS systems that required dial-up modems, our software had an “ignore” function that allowed us to add abusive posters (who were called “trolls”) to what was called a “killfile.” It would simply delete whatever the troll posted. Even today, Usenet readers have that option. Unfortunately, Sharper Iron does not offer it, so I’m going to have to make the adjustment internally in my own mind.

Isaac,

There may be an indefinite number of political options open to a fundamentalist, just as there may be an indefinite number of good foods that a fundamentalist could eat. In neither case do I know them all.

But I don’t have to know them all in order to know that the positions of the Democratic party are poisonous, just as I know that toadstools are poisonous.

Statements don’t force anybody to look anywhere. People make choices. If you are anything resembling a thoughtful person, then you are going to have to make a choice between the principles of biblical Christianity and the principles of the Democratic party. You cannot consistently hold both.

Kevin

[Kevin T. Bauder]

If you are anything resembling a thoughtful person, then you are going to have to make a choice between the principles of biblical Christianity and the principles of the Democratic party. You cannot consistently hold both.

Kevin

I don’t buy this even though I can’t ever remember voting for a Democrat. I am not sure what principles you are referring to that would make the Democratic party incompatible with biblical Christianity.

Economic principles? No. There are strengths and weaknesses to both sides of that debate and both have some advantages from a biblical and practical standpoint. But it seems clear that the Bible does not endorse any particular economic system. If it did, based on the Israel theocratic model, it would likely be somewhere between the two parties.

Social principles? That is a stronger argument, but even so, I am skeptical. Since the Bible is silent on such pet issues as the right to bear arms, it would seem to me that this comes down mostly to abortion and gay rights. The positions held by Democrats on those issues can be pretty nuanced. A person could for example believe strongly that government-sanctioned gay discrimination is wrong while still being against homosexuality.

I think that people could intelligently argue that the Democratic party, while having problems, has some biblical advantages over the Republican party in such areas as treatment of the poor. They could decide that the pros outweigh the cons. I have never seen the data but my suspicion is that the treatment of the poor the most common reason why some evangelicals are drawn to the Democratic party.

[James K]

[Kevin T. Bauder]

James,

And how many John Bunyans have you produced in your ministry?

I thought so.

Kevin

So your response to me pointing out your obvious, elitist overstatement is to insult? Check yourself Kevin.

Go away or I shall taught you a second time!

Kevin,

I do not know of anyone who agrees with all of any one party’s principles. There is “poison” in all parties, so I think your dichotomy between “biblical” Christianity and the Democratic party is unnecessary.

Either way, how does aligning with any party NOT transgress Fundamentalism’s practice of secondary separation?

Young fundamentalists are continually questioning whether or not they should “stay” within fundamentalism. When we realize that we do not operate under the same presuppositions that supposed leaders within fundamentalism do, in a sense we are “forced” to make a decision to look elsewhere.

IK

Ecclesia semper reformanda est