On the Supernatural: Framing Our Response
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Read the series.
Christians have a broad range of attitudes toward the “supernatural” in society—mostly in fiction, film, and gaming. To hark back to the 70’s and 80’s, many Christians were concerned about Ouija boards, 8-balls, Dungeons and Dragons, and the symbology of the traditional card deck. That expanded to various heavy metal rock groups and “backward masking.”
In more recent memory, the Harry Potter series of novels and movies was controversial among Christians. I haven’t noticed an uproar about Wicked and Wicked: For Good, but I’m sure disagreements exist. Movies, streaming content, and novels of concern abound.
How are we to evaluate and respond to these cultural phenomena as followers of Christ, who seek to be “not conformed to this world” (Rom 12:2) and also to be “salt” and “light” to those around us? (Matt 5:13-16).
The Church has also long struggled with another question, equally important—though often overlooked: How do we fulfil the creative image of God in our work and in our artistic output? We are here to be holy and influential but also to be properly and fully human, vehicles of His glory as image-bearers.
The big question of Christians’ relationship to culture, and church relationship to culture, is beyond the scope of this article (Christ over culture? Christ in culture? Some other model?). But it’s important to include our call to be creative and contribute to human thriving as one of the tensions as we try to respond biblically to how our culture interacts with unseen realities and fictions.
Points of Agreement & Disagreement
Christians agree that the Devil and his spiritual minions are real and that they are top-tier enemies of God and His Church. We also agree that he and his are not to be worshiped or served in any way. Further, we agree that we should be wary of anything that increases our vulnerability to the Enemy’s influence.
From there, disagreement multiplies. We should avoid worshiping, serving, or increasing vulnerability to the Enemy, but what actually does those things?
We differ a lot also in attitude and emphasis. How important is “the occult” relative to other dangers and influences?
Attitude and emphasis arise directly from convictions—conscious or not—about how Satan really works and what the supernatural realm is really like. With that in mind, I have focused in this series mainly on those, often assumed, convictions.
After a survey of some systematic theologies on demonology and cosmology, I challenged the categories of “natural” and “supernatural” as we tend to think of them in the modern and post-modern West. The Bible presents reality as full of both visible and invisible features everywhere and all the time. In that sense, “the supernatural” is not all that special.
Later, I aimed to confront two common errors: (a) naturalistic secularization, where we don’t take the unseen realities as “really real” enough, and (b) a kind of spooked, superstitious attitude, based mainly on common knowledge and folklore.
These are both counter-biblical ways of looking at the unseen realities of the creation.
My aim in this article is to tie up some admittedly miscellaneous loose ends closer to the practical theology. The prior three articles are context.
Here are the main points:
- It is possible to worship something to a degree with incomplete awareness and intention, though this worship is mitigated by ignorance.
- Satan’s primary tool is deception and his primary process is ideas and words. In Scripture, objects associated with Satan are not depicted as powerful.
- Satan’s primary goal is idolatry.
- Our attitude toward “supernatural” and “occult” features in culture should consist of sobriety and vigilance, not being spooked.
- We should always bear in mind that our own flesh (sarx, not exactly “body”), is closer, more constant, and offers more spiritual “attack surfaces” than externals like fiction, film, games, or occultic objects.
Let’s consider these one at a time.
Worship: Knowing and Unknowing
If some element of our culture has demonic origins or occultic purposes in the past (or obscure present), could a Christian—by using it in some way—unknowingly offer worship to Satan or demons? Can items used that way carry evil spiritual influence?
1 Corinthians 10 is helpful:
Consider the people of Israel: are not those who eat the sacrifices participants in the altar? 19 What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. 22 Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy? … (1 Co 10:18–22)
The apostle is clear that an idol is not really “anything,” and that food previously used in an offering to one is not really “anything” either (cf. 1 Cor 8:4-5). But, at the same time, we learn that participating in idolatrous feasts was more than it might seem. Regardless of intent, it was, objectively, a spiritual participation with demons. It carried meaning independent of intent.
We do well to remember, though, that worship in the fullest sense, is a thing humans do “in spirit and in truth” (John 4:24).
1 Corinthians 8-10, together with other passages argues that believers should be alert to the possibility that participation in cultural events could have more significance than we intend. But the passage argues against the notion that objects used in demonic worship can convey spiritual influence.
Satan’s Modus Operandi
Jesus’ direct teaching on how the Devil works is fundamental.
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. (Jn 8:44)
Jesus first characterizes the Devil as “a murderer,” but everything after that focuses on his character as a deceiver. Consider also Revelation 12:9, the events of Genesis 3, and 2 Corinthians 11:3.
The implication is that Satan’s method is to get humans to believe things that are not true. Even in his role as tempter, he relies heavily on communication of untruths (see Matt 4:1-11) as well as appeals to the desires of fallen minds and bodies (James 1:14).
Occultic symbols that carry no meaning to an observer are not deceiving, because they aren’t communicating anything. Even if the observer knows what the symbols mean, it doesn’t follow that deception is ocurring. You can read Mein Kampf without the slightest risk of becoming a neo-Nazi. Similarly, Satan speaks in familiar language to Jesus during the temptation in Matthew 4 (Luke 4, Mark 1), but Jesus is not at risk of being deceived.
I’m not about to populate my shelves with objects covered in occultic symbols. But the reasons for that are aesthetic, not protective. I would not be in danger of absorbing evil influence. If I could read the symbols, there might be some increased vulnerability there, but Christians are far more at risk of deception through Satanic communication that is subtle.
A study of phrases like “be not deceived” in Scripture rarely references Satan and never references occultic symbols. This is because we’re so often ready to deceive ourselves (e.g., James 1:22) or to believe lies and half-truths from sources we find appealing (2 Tim 3:13-14, 4:3-4).
Satan’s Idolatrous Goal
Though the scene in Eden doesn’t include a call to bow down before the serpent, there is a clear strategy to replace devotion to God with devotion to something else (self). And even in the temptation of Jesus, the Devil does not content himself with trying to disqualify Jesus from His mission. He directly calls on Him to bow (Matt 4:9). Further, Paul directly links worship of idols to worship of demons (1 Co 10:20).
This is important, because any study of what is actually “demonic,” has to deal adequately with the overall narrative of the Bible, which is one of constant falling into idolatry of one sort or another.
Evaluating supernatural elements in culture involves asking if we’re participating in something that carries more meaning than we intend, asking if we are likely to be deceived, but also asking if we’re likely to have our devotion to God pulled toward some competing object.
Our Attitude
There are tensions we need to preserve in our attitude and emphasis regarding the unseen forces of evil.
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. (1 Pe 5:8)
Though fear has a place in our motivations and attitudes as believers (e.g., 1 Pet 1:17) we’re never told to be afraid of the rulers of the darkness of this age (Eph 6:12), meaning Satan and his servants. Rather, the key words are sobriety and alertness, along with a diligence to be “armored” spiritually (Eph 6:13-18).
Superstition and feeling spooked—common attitudes in non-Christian folklore—are not in view. More to the point, mindfulness of Satan’s primary goals and methods is in view. The Scriptures tell us where our sobermindedness and alertness need to be aimed.
The Flesh
The classic formula of “the world, the flesh, and the Devil” as the enemies of the Christian holds up well to biblical scrutiny.
Looking again at the temptation of Jesus, Satan tries to tap ordinary human weakness, physical appetites, and (in Jesus’ case, non-existent) human aversions to God’s authority and supremacy.
We could all cloister ourselves and never see a novel with witches in it or a movie with demons in it. We could sing only Psalms, a cappella, to tunes with all quarter notes (to avoid questions about rhythm). We could avoid games and decorative or ritual objects entirely.
To add a first century context, we could eat only the food we hunted or grew ourselves.
We’d still have what is, by far, the largest and most present vulnerability to Satan’s influence (if he even needs to put in any effort): our own flesh. The word “flesh” has some different meanings, depending on the context, but these are clear enough:
- Romans 13:14
- 1 Corinthians 3:1
- Galatians 5:13
- Galatians 5:17
- Galatians 5:24
- Colossians 2:23
- 1 Peter 2:11
- 1 John 2:16
When we consider the increasing interest in “the supernatural” we’re seeing in Western culture, we do need to consider factors like meaning, influence, deception, devotion, and self indulgence. If we can be influenced by objects, spells, historic associations of obscure symbols, etc., the Bible certainly does not emphasize these in the array of threats we face.
I conclude with a benediction that seems apt:
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. (Ro 16:20)
Aaron Blumer 2016 Bio
Aaron Blumer is a Michigan native and graduate of Bob Jones University and Central Baptist Theological Seminary (Plymouth, MN). He and his family live in small-town western Wisconsin, not far from where he pastored for thirteen years. In his full time job, he is content manager for a law-enforcement digital library service. (Views expressed are the author's own and not his employer's, church's, etc.)
Could you please(based on the clear teaching of the Bible), explain what the are the works of the occult that do not, and could not apply to the sin of idolatry as well? For my part, I can’t think of any.
Also, you say that you deny that there is no overlap of any kind between idolatry and the occult, but for me at least, your posts and replies that push back against the notion of an overlap between idolatry and the occult whenever another makes such a claim leaves me with the impression that you believe that idolatry and the occult are completely inseparable. Could you please clear this up for me(and possibly others who may be wondering the same thing)?
Please forgive me if my wording is confusing, but my brain and my mouth don’t always get along when with each other when tringbtomphrae things in a coherent way.
They make a difference because divine wisdom repeatedly calls our attention to both sins separately and on an equal footing.
Equal footing? There is far more attention to idolatry in the Bible than there is to occult practices, so the attention is not equal. If you are meaning that both are displeasing to God, then that equality is a similarity (and you are refusing to acknowledge similarities).
Noting carefully what God has said in His Word does not equate to being "easily able to tell . . . why the differences matter." One can and must hold that the differences matter regardless of whether he can explain why they matter.
So you're admitting that you have no idea why the differences matter.
What overlap they do or do not have is irrelevant to heeding divine wisdom that separately speaks of them and puts them on equal footing in multiple statements.
Again, what is equal footing, apart from their obvious similarities? Are you going to tell me that one must hold to this equal footing regardless of whether they can explain what it means?
Hmm. Fornication and idolatry can use crafted items. By your reasoning, that would mean that the two are . . .
The two are both subject to the crafted items principle that I explained from Scripture. Whether an item is used in idolatry or the occult or, yes, even fornication, that crafted item has no inherent power. Why is that so hard to understand?
Showing that both are in the same category in one respect (works of the flesh) does not establish that differences between them are minor and inconsequential.
What differences? Now you're talking about the differences as if some/all of them would be major and consequential, but I have no idea what you're talking about. You've already admitted that you can't explain why the differences matter, so how can you possibly claim that the differences are not minor if you can't explain why they matter.
[RG]They make a difference because divine wisdom repeatedly calls our attention to both sins separately and on an equal footing.
[KM]Equal footing? There is far more attention to idolatry in the Bible than there is to occult practices, so the attention is not equal. If you are meaning that both are displeasing to God, then that equality is a similarity (and you are refusing to acknowledge similarities).
The context of my statement was my previously calling attention several times to passages where both sins are listed separately and on equal footing in the NT, such as in Galatians 5.
No, I am not refusing to acknowledge similarities. I am rejecting the claims that you and other have been making that those similarities establish that the occult is idolatry and that it is "an appendix to his [Satan's] main playbook."
[RG]Noting carefully what God has said in His Word does not equate to being "easily able to tell . . . why the differences matter." One can and must hold that the differences matter regardless of whether he can explain why they matter.
[KM]So you're admitting that you have no idea why the differences matter.
No, I am not admitting any such thing.
Prior to these recent discussions in articles written by Aaron, I have never encountered people who have tried to conflate the occult and idolatry, etc. I am not at the point in my study of these claims where I believe that I have carefully and thoroughly established in my own understanding what should be said in that respect.
[RG]Hmm. Fornication and idolatry can use crafted items. By your reasoning, that would mean that the two are . . .
[KM]The two are both subject to the crafted items principle that I explained from Scripture. Whether an item is used in idolatry or the occult or, yes, even fornication, that crafted item has no inherent power. Why is that so hard to understand?
I have already addressed this more than once. I reject your dogmatic claim about something that you are incapable of knowing with certainty. You do not know and cannot know what is and isn't true about things that God has prohibited and not given full and specific information about those things.
[RG]Showing that both are in the same category in one respect (works of the flesh) does not establish that differences between them are minor and inconsequential.
[KM]What differences? Now you're talking about the differences as if some/all of them would be major and consequential, but I have no idea what you're talking about. You've already admitted that you can't explain why the differences matter, so how can you possibly claim that the differences are not minor if you can't explain why they matter.
Again, I have not admitted any such thing (see my earlier response to that claim).
Could you please(based on the clear teaching of the Bible), explain what the are the works of the occult that do not, and could not apply to the sin of idolatry as well? For my part, I can’t think of any.
I do not understand what you are saying in this question. Can you explain further what you are talking about?
Also, you say that you deny that there is no overlap of any kind between idolatry and the occult, but for me at least, your posts and replies that push back against the notion of an overlap between idolatry and the occult whenever another makes such a claim leaves me with the impression that you believe that idolatry and the occult are completely inseparable. Could you please clear this up for me(and possibly others who may be wondering the same thing)?
I do not "believe that idolatry and the occult are completely inseparable." They are listed separately repeatedly in Scripture and must not be conflated.
Allow me to rephrase the question and hopefully be more clear. I apologize for being unclear.
According to the clear teaching of Scripture, what are some clear practices of the occult that are distinct from idol worship practices?
Maybe this question might help.
According to the Bible, what are some distinctives of the occult, that separate it from idol worship practices? Especially since, as other have noted, that I Cor. 10:20(which has been brought up before in this thread if I recall correctly), clearly teaches us that what was sacrificed to an idol was actually sacrificed to demons which I would regard as an occultic activity.
Also, from following this thread, I was left with the impression that(until your more recent posts) you were arguing that idolatry and the occult were completely distinct with no overlap. Somehow I phrased things wrong in my previous post and wrote something contrary to what I was trying to say. I ask your forgiveness for my shortcoming on that point.
What are some conflations of idolatry and the occult that you believe are not a legitimate overlap that we must distinguish between the two?
I hope these clarifications help in your understanding of my post.
According to the clear teaching of Scripture, what are some clear practices of the occult that are distinct from idol worship practices? . . .
According to the Bible, what are some distinctives of the occult, that separate it from idol worship practices?
A big part of the disputes in this thread stem from differences in theological methods, hermeneutics, etc.
I hold that what God says directly must be given foremost authority. I have provided multiple NT passages that directly distinguish between idolatry and the occult and place them on an equal footing. To me, that means the two are to be regarded as distinct and must not be conflated.
Because the NT repeatedly uses different Greek words for the two, such explicit inspired usage requires us to understand that the Spirit purposely used those differing words to teach us that the two are distinct.
That sums up my views at this time. I do not have specifics about "clear practices of the occult that are distinct from idol worship practices" that I can give you information about because the Spirit has not chosen to provide that information. What we can say is that sorcery in the NT was not the same thing as idolatry.
Especially since, as other have noted, that I Cor. 10:20(which has been brought up before in this thread if I recall correctly), clearly teaches us that what was sacrificed to an idol was actually sacrificed to demons which I would regard as an occultic activity
As for 1 Cor. 10:20, I do not want to get into any discussion of that passage at this time. Back in 2019, I began a thread to discuss that passage. It ended up being a very long (20 pages of comments) and highly contentious discussion.
You can look over that thread here (https://sharperiron.org/forum/thread-we-must-heed-vital-message-of-1-co…) to see if you might find something of help there to answer your questions.
Rajesh,
I am aware that one of the disputes is over theological methods and hermeneutics, etc…. They have been a part of the dispute on nearly all of these discussions over several threads since 2019. I note that you have said “I hold that what God says directly must be given foremost authority”. But does anyone on this board disagree with this? Is not the question here about how to accurately handle and correctly interpret and apply what the Lord has said?
So, what does the Bible teach us about sorcery apart from any occasions where it is connected with idolatry? How do we distinguish sorcery without any connection to idolatry versus sorcery that occurs in connection with idolatry? What about the text of Scripture on this topic doesn’t allow for the possibility that the proper understanding of the connection between idolatry and sorcery is that sorcery was a practice that some of the idol worshippers believed that they had special powers and/or tools to communicate with the ‘gods’ they worship and act as “prophets” to bring messages from those ‘gods’? In other words, why do you believe that the position that Aaron and Kevin have stated is not an accurate handling and a proper interpretation of Scripture?
I ask because your responses to them seem to be missing an important piece of the hermeneutical puzzle to connect point A to interpretation/Application C. I believe Aaron addressed this question earlier in this thread as well, if I understand him and remember correctly.
So, what does the Bible teach us about sorcery apart from any occasions where it is connected with idolatry? How do we distinguish sorcery without any connection to idolatry versus sorcery that occurs in connection with idolatry?
The NT passages that I have cited do not teach us anything about sorcery connected to idolatry any more than they teach us anything about sorcery connected to fornication or anything about sorcery connected to murder, etc.
Where does the NT itself teach us anything about sorcery in any kind of connection to idolatry?
And some questions, though these need not be answered.
I realized this morning that I have been using the word sorcery to refer to all occult activities. I know you value precision in discussions( that is my impression at least), so I do apologize for any miscommunication between us based on that occurrence. I certainly want to avoid us talking past each other.
Going forward with that understanding, I think that Acts 16:16-21 is a case study for a connection between idolatry and the occult. The Bible Knowledge Commentary note the connection of the demonic python Spirit with the oracle of Delphi and the Greek god Apollo. The notes on this passage in The Reformation Heritage KJV Study Bible published by RHB, particularly the note on verse 16 define Soothsaying as “Professing to predict the future, a common trade based on the belief in magical powers granted by the gods(pages 1586-1587).This seems to me to be a connection between idolatry and the occult, particularly as an example of what Paul was talking about in 1 Cor. 10:20 regarding actual demons being the real power behind idolatry. These are some brief thoughts I have. My resources for further in-depth study are currently limited, so I am not sure that I will be able to continue this part of the discussion with any profit for either of us.
Part of my underlying presuppositions are based on the fact that I was taught by several people such as Sunday School teachers, preachers and pastors in their preaching(to the best of my memory) that an idol is anything that takes the place of God, whether it be another god such as Zeus, for example, or such things as money, possessions, etc….
It seems to me that the best way to understand any connection(s) between the occult and idolatry is that idolatry was the broad worship and practices that everyone engaged in, but any occultic works engaged in were done a) in the name of the false god, and b) not practiced by the population as a whole. I believe that this balances the need to correctly understand a distinction between the occult, and idolatry, while understanding that in the ancient world at least, there was more of a connection between the two concepts.
“The NT passages that I have cited do not teach us anything about sorcery connected to idolatry any more than they teach us anythingabout sorcery connected to fornication or anything about sorcery connected to murder, etc.”
On this point, I believe that others in this thread have capably discussed and responded to this point. I do not believe that I have anything to contribute to a discussion on this point.
I will need to humbly bow out of this discussion and be content to follow it if the discussion continues.
Thank you for your interactions with me Rajesh. I am grateful for the opportunity it has given me to work on commmunicating more clearly, and sharpening my critical thinking and reasoning skills.
The context of my statement was my previously calling attention several times to passages where both sins are listed separately and on equal footing in the NT, such as in Galatians 5.
No, I am not refusing to acknowledge similarities. I am rejecting the claims that you and other have been making that those similarities establish that the occult is idolatry and that it is "an appendix to his [Satan's] main playbook."
But you still didn't answer me about what you meant by "equal footing." It gets hard to have a conversation with you when you ignore direct questions. Perhaps the problem lies in that your position create so many questions in my mind that you simply don't have patience to answer them all.
I've been telling you that similarities exist, but I haven't said that occult is the same thing as idolatry. The point I was making about similarities involved a biblical principle I saw about crafted items. The similarity that both occult and idolatry use crafted items does not mean I am trying to claim that both sins are identical. It's just pointing out one small similarity. It's a small similarity, but it exists no matter how much you wish to argue against similarities. You say, "I am not refusing to acknowledge similarities," but then you claim that a simple presentation of a similarity is an attempt to establish "that the occult is idolatry." No such direct conflation has been attempted by me.
Your question to me about crafted items used in fornication is a good illustration to discuss differences and similarities. There are absolutely definite differences in the use of crafted items between the two sins of idolatry and fornication. This doesn't mean my understanding of the crafted items principle is wrong, but the differences between the two sins are so great that we wouldn't need to even consider that principle in a discussion of the two sins. However, if we were discussing a biblical principle regarding "faithfulness," then we could absolutely point out a similarity between idolatry and fornication. Israel's idolatry is described in the Bible as whoring after other gods. Both sins involve unfaithfulness to the one to whom faithfulness is due. Is it conflating those two sins to point out that similarity?
I think I'll stop right here and wait for you to answer that question before I continue with any other question. Is it conflating the two sins of idolatry and fornication to say that both involve the similar theme of unfaithfulness?
Idolatry is the worship of an idol as though it were a deity.[1][2][3] In Abrahamic religions (namely Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) idolatry connotes the worship of something or someone other than the Abrahamic God as if it were God.[4][5] In these monotheistic religions, idolatry has been considered as the “worship of false gods” and is forbidden by texts such as the Ten Commandments.[4] Other monotheistic religions may apply similar rules.[6]
Idolatry, as depicted in the Bible, refers to the act of worshiping or giving reverence to anything other than God. It encompasses not only the physical worship of carved images but also the elevation of material possessions, desires, or ideologies above the Creator. Throughout Scripture, idolatry is presented as a grave offense against God, leading to spiritual decay and divine judgment.
Webster (modern) likes the very narrow definition…
1 : the worship of a physical object as a god
IDOL’ATRY, noun [Latin idololatria. Gr. idol, and to worship or serve.]
1. The worship of idols, images, or any thing made by hands, or which is not God.
Idolatry is of two kinds; the worship of images, statues, pictures, etc. made by hands; and the worship of the heavenly bodies, the sun, moon and stars, or of demons, angels, men and animals.
2. Excessive attachment or veneration for any thing, or that which borders on adoration.
OED is impressive…
1.a.
a1325–
The action or practice of worshipping idols; veneration of any image or object representing or regarded as the embodiment of a god or divinity. Also: any form of worship or religious practice presented or interpreted by the writer or speaker as equivalent to this; the worship of a false god. Frequently derogatory, esp. when used to characterize the beliefs or practices of other faiths or denominations.
The use of images, crosses, or other objects as a focus of worship in some religious traditions has historically been characterized as idolatry by other groups; cf. idol n. I.1c.
1.b.
c1405–
In extended use, chiefly in religious contexts: devotion to worldly (as opposed to spiritual) concerns (in earlier use esp. wealth) regarded as tantamount to the worship of an idol or false god.
2.
c1350–
A form of worship involving the veneration of an idol, image, object, etc.; an idolatrous belief, practice, or act.3.
1569–
figurative. Intense or excessive devotion to, respect for, or admiration of an individual, concept, subject, etc.; the idolizing of a person or thing.
So, can the case be made that ‘idolatry’ requires a physical object one is bowing before? Sure. I think it’s a distinction without a difference, but those who don’t want to call ‘worship of not-God’ idolatry can simply use ‘worship of not-God.’ Where I used ‘idolatry’ in my argument, read it as ‘worship of not-God.’ It still works as support and the argument stands just fine with or without the term ‘idolatry’.
So, Satan’s main goal in the world is to turn worship away from God to other alternatives and his main method is deception. And ‘occult’ is inseparably tied to belief systems that have rejection of God and His authority at their core. They are idolatrous false-worship belief systems.
Something else I can concede, though: humans are not logically consistent, and they might engage in some idea or behavior that is a true component of an idolatrous false worship system and also, even at the same time, reject the beliefs and belief systems themselves. The fact remains, objectively, that they’re involved in idolatry false worship. Subjectively, not so much, or at least, not in a way that coheres. They’re not making sense. But hey, humans. We are all like that in varying degrees.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Going forward with that understanding, I think that Acts 16:16-21 is a case study for a connection between idolatry and the occult.
The Spirit does not provide anything in the passage to connect the occult to idolatry. Had the Spirit wanted us to make that connection in that passage, He could easily have done so.
But you still didn't answer me about what you meant by "equal footing."
Again, in the passages that I have cited there is zero evidence that subordinates the occult to idolatry. For example,
Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
You have to read into the passage something that is not there to say that this passage supports holding that the occult is subordinate to idolatry in any way. This passage does not in any way support the faulty notion that the occult is "an appendix to his [Satan's] main playbook." The same goes for the all the other passages that I have cited.
There is no subordination of any sin spoken of in Gal. 5:19-21 to any of the other sins spoken of in the passage. They are all presented on an equal footing with none being foregrounded as more important, etc.
Your question to me about crafted items used in fornication is a good illustration to discuss differences and similarities. There are absolutely definite differences in the use of crafted items between the two sins of idolatry and fornication. This doesn't mean my understanding of the crafted items principle is wrong, but the differences between the two sins are so great that we wouldn't need to even consider that principle in a discussion of the two sins. However, if we were discussing a biblical principle regarding "faithfulness," then we could absolutely point out a similarity between idolatry and fornication. Israel's idolatry is described in the Bible as whoring after other gods. Both sins involve unfaithfulness to the one to whom faithfulness is due. Is it conflating those two sins to point out that similarity?
I think I'll stop right here and wait for you to answer that question before I continue with any other question. Is it conflating the two sins of idolatry and fornication to say that both involve the similar theme of unfaithfulness?
None of this is relevant to my objections to your claims. Your "crafted items principle" is irrelevant to establishing the validity of your asserting that the teaching in 1 Cor. 10 about an idol applies to physical objects used in occult practices. The teaching in 1 Cor. 10 is specific to physical objects to which sacrifices are offered.
So, Satan’s main goal in the world is to turn worship away from God to other alternatives and his main method is deception. And ‘occult’ is inseparably tied to belief systems that have rejection of God and His authority at their core. They are
idolatrousfalse-worship belief systems.
It is telling that you do not provide any Scripture to support your statements. You still have not provided any Scripture to establish that the occult is false worship.
Theological reasoning is not the same thing as direct divine statement. In fact, when God wants us to understand that we are to hold that some sin other than idolatry is also idolatry, He explicitly says so in Scripture:
Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
These explicit statements by the Spirit teach us that it is right to say and hold that covetousness is idolatry. No such teaching in Scripture exists concerning the occult being idolatry.
Had the Spirit wanted us to lump the occult in with idolatry and subordinate it to idolatry, He could have easily done so.
It seems to me that the best way to understand any connection(s) between the occult and idolatry is that idolatry was the broad worship and practices that everyone engaged in, but any occultic works engaged in were done a) in the name of the false god, and b) not practiced by the population as a whole. I believe that this balances the need to correctly understand a distinction between the occult, and idolatry, while understanding that in the ancient world at least, there was more of a connection between the two concepts.
I do not find any Scriptural support for the understanding that "any occultic works engaged in were done a) in the name of the false god." Had God wanted us to believe that was the case in the passages that He has inspired in Scripture about the occult, He could easily have done so.
[Kevin]But you still didn't answer me about what you meant by "equal footing."
[RG]Again, in the passages that I have cited there is zero evidence that subordinates the occult to idolatry. For example,
Thanks for providing another word to help me try to understand, but now I have to try figuring out what you mean by "subordinate." You've used it in several sentences already and in one of them you referred to it as being "not an appendix." That leaves open a semantic discussion of what you think being an appendix refers to.
There is no subordination of any sin spoken of in Gal. 5:19-21 to any of the other sins spoken of in the passage. They are all presented on an equal footing with none being foregrounded as more important, etc.
So equal footing means "just as important as every thing else in a list" and subordinated would then mean "not as important." But that leaves us to discuss how a sin is classified as important in the Bible. Does just being in a list make a sin important? Probably so, since it was important enough to make the list and everything in that list would then be equally important. You started to confuse me again, however, when you started to talk about covetousness in Colossians 3:5.
Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
These explicit statements by the Spirit teach us that it is right to say and hold that covetousness is idolatry. No such teaching in Scripture exists concerning the occult being idolatry.
Had the Spirit wanted us to lump the occult in with idolatry and subordinate it to idolatry, He could have easily done so.
Colossians 3:5 contains a list of sins, but one of them, covetousness, is explicitly described as being the same as idolatry. Does that mean covetousness is subordinate to idolatry, since it's the same as idolatry? That's what it sounds like you are saying since you make the point that this equality to idolatry is not presented in regards to occult and idolatry. Lumping the occult with idolatry would have subordinated it to idolatry and the Spirit didn't do that.
So your logic sounds like this to me: If a sin is explicitly stated to be equal to another sin, then it is subordinate (not as important) to that sin, but if it just in a list with another sin, then it is not subordinate but actually of equal importance. Your uses of "subordinate" do not make logical sense.
[Kevin]I think I'll stop right here and wait for you to answer that question before I continue with any other question. Is it conflating the two sins of idolatry and fornication to say that both involve the similar theme of unfaithfulness?
[RG]None of this is relevant to my objections to your claims.
But it IS relevant to my understanding of your position regarding conflation. All you did was purposely ignore a direct question again. Are you that fearful of stating an opinion?
Your "crafted items principle" is irrelevant to establishing the validity of your asserting that the teaching in 1 Cor. 10 about an idol applies to physical objects used in occult practices. The teaching in 1 Cor. 10 is specific to physical objects to which sacrifices are offered.
My crafted items principle came straight from Habakkuk 2:19, and there is no mention of sacrifices being offered in that passage. It simply mentions that crafted items have no power in themselves. When I mentioned a similarity between idolatry and the occult from 1 Cor 10, it was that both idolatry and the occult contain a connection to demons. Idolaters sacrifice to demons and occult practitioners interact with demons. That similarity does not mean that one of the sins is subordinate or less important than the other sin. It simply means that sound doctrine from God's Word regarding demons can guide our understanding of both distinct sins.
So equal footing means "just as important as every thing else in a list" and subordinated would then mean "not as important."
Yes, my statement about "equal footing" was in respect to that specific fact about multiple NT passages.
[KM]You started to confuse me again, however, when you started to talk about covetousness in Colossians 3:5.
[RG]Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
These explicit statements by the Spirit teach us that it is right to say and hold that covetousness is idolatry. No such teaching in Scripture exists concerning the occult being idolatry.
Had the Spirit wanted us to lump the occult in with idolatry and subordinate it to idolatry, He could have easily done so.
[KM]Colossians 3:5 contains a list of sins, but one of them, covetousness, is explicitly described as being the same as idolatry. Does that mean covetousness is subordinate to idolatry, since it's the same as idolatry?
That comment was not directed to you and what I regard as faulty statements by you. The point of that comment to Aaron was to show biblically that when God wants us to hold that some other sin is idolatry, He says so.
My crafted items principle came straight from Habakkuk 2:19, and there is no mention of sacrifices being offered in that passage. It simply mentions that crafted items have no power in themselves.
Habakkuk 2:19 Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.
What the passage actually says is that God pronounces a woe on those who do such things and those objects have no breath at all in their midst. It does not say that they have no power in themselves.
There are also other problems with your "crafted item principle." First, Scripture speaks of idolaters who worship the sun, the moon, etc. None of those were crafted by human beings, and yet idolaters direct worship to them. Applying the teaching of either Hab. 2:19 or 1 Cor. 10:20 to such idolatry is at least highly questionable.
Second, Scripture attests to idolaters worshiping an object that fell to the earth from the sky:
Acts 19:35 And when the townclerk had appeased the people, he said, Ye men of Ephesus, what man is there that knoweth not how that the city of the Ephesians is a worshipper of the great goddess Diana, and of the image which fell down from Jupiter?
The notes to the NET Bible say, "sn The expression fell from heaven adds a note of apologetic about the heavenly origin of the goddess. The city's identity and well-being was wrapped up with this connection, in their view. Many interpreters view her image that fell from heaven as a stone meteorite regarded as a sacred object."
If this understanding is correct, that image would not be a humanly crafted object of worship. Applying Hab. 2:19 and 1 Cor. 10:20 to such an object would again be at least highly questionable.
[Kevin]So equal footing means "just as important as every thing else in a list" and subordinated would then mean "not as important."
[RG]Yes, my statement about "equal footing" was in respect to that specific fact about multiple NT passages.
You've presented multiple passages that have different lists of sins. Within those lists, each sin has an equal importance to the other sins within that particular list, but wouldn't the relative importance only be within that particular list? And we don't just have these lists in the NT. The Ten Commandments is a list of sins people are not to commit. Some of the Ten Commandments refer to the same sins as Galatians 5:19, such as idolatry, adultery, murder, and I'd consider envying to be pretty much the same as coveting. Does the overlap mean that those four sins are more important than other sins? It could mean that in one sense, but there is also a sense in which every possible sin, even those that are subsets of other sins, are on equal footing with other sins. If a person breaks the law in one point, he is guilty of breaking the whole law. Every individual sin is on equal footing in regards to God's judgement upon sin.
A claim that one sin may be similar to another sin, or may be a subset of another sin, is not an assertion that any sin is less important than any other sin. Aaron's assertion that one sin (say, occult practices) isn't used by Satan as often as other sins (say, idolatry/false worship) is not an assertion that one sin is less important than the other sin.
Habakkuk 2:19 Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.
What the passage actually says is that God pronounces a woe on those who do such things and those objects have no breath at all in their midst. It does not say that they have no power in themselves.
Come on, Rajesh. You know full well that the passage isn't simply teaching that idols have no lungs to draw in air. The fact that they have no breath means that they have no life, no animating force, and thus no power in themselves to act in any way.
There are also other problems with your "crafted item principle." First, Scripture speaks of idolaters who worship the sun, the moon, etc. None of those were crafted by human beings, and yet idolaters direct worship to them. Applying the teaching of either Hab. 2:19 or 1 Cor. 10:20 to such idolatry is at least highly questionable.
I didn't try applying Hab. 2:19 to the sun and moon. I applied it to crafted objects. The fact that non-crafted objects exist is not a problem with a principle that applies to crafted objects. Why would applying 1 Cor 10:20 to sun and moon worship be questionable. That verse says, "But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils." Do you think if a sacrifice is made to the sun, then it is not made to the devil in spite of what that verse says? Do you think that a sacrifice made to a meteor is not made to a devil, in spite of what the verse says?
Why would applying 1 Cor 10:20 to sun and moon worship be questionable. That verse says, "But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils."
Because the reality "behind" man-made idols to whom sacrifices are made are demons. There are no such demons "behind" the sun and moon, which were made directly by God. In addition, the sun, moon, etc. are not nothing in the world; they are divinely created objects that do have various effects on the world and its beings.
Do you think if a sacrifice is made to the sun, then it is not made to the devil in spite of what that verse says? Do you think that a sacrifice made to a meteor is not made to a devil, in spite of what the verse says?
At this point, I do not believe that the verse applies to sacrifices made to the sun, moon, stars, or to a meteor because those objects were not made by humans. Perhaps, further study and thought would reveal that there might be some biblical basis to say otherwise, but I do not see any such basis at this time.
Because the reality "behind" man-made idols to whom sacrifices are made are demons. There are no such demons "behind" the sun and moon, which were made directly by God. In addition, the sun, moon, etc. are not nothing in the world; they are divinely created objects that do have various effects on the world and its beings.
So are you saying that when the divinely created sun and moon are worshipped, that people are worshipping the true God? Sure, the sun and moon have physical effects on the world due to radiation or gravitational force, but do you think one of the effects is the ability to answer prayers of the worshippers?
So are you saying that when the divinely created sun and moon are worshipped, that people are worshipping the true God? Sure, the sun and moon have physical effects on the world due to radiation or gravitational force, but do you think one of the effects is the ability to answer prayers of the worshippers?
No, they are not worshiping the true God.
No, one of the effects is not that they can answer prayers of the worshipers.
Having said that, I still do not accept that 1 Cor. 10:20 applies to worshiping of celestial objects that are not manmade.
Scripture emphasizes that it is the worship of things made with men's hands that God decries when He judges people for their worship of other gods:
Jer. 1:16 And I will utter my judgments against them touching all their wickedness, who have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, and worshipped the works of their own hands.
Acts 7:41 And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.
Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Rev. 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
As I’ve noted, the term ‘false worship’ works fine in my argument for those who prefer to use ‘idolatry’ narrowly.
As for this…
None of this is relevant to my objections to your claims. Your “crafted items principle” is irrelevant to establishing the validity of your asserting that the teaching in 1 Cor. 10 about an idol applies to physical objects used in occult practices. The teaching in 1 Cor. 10 is specific to physical objects to which sacrifices are offered.
You have flipped the burden of proof. Where does the Bible say that there are objects of power of any kind idolatrous or otherwise?
Having said that, I still do not accept that 1 Cor. 10:20 applies to worshiping of celestial objects that are not manmade.
Go ahead and prove that.
But how is it relevant? Even if we suppose Paul meant to say “what pagans sacrifice if and only if they are sacrificing to a manmade object they offer to demons and not to God” what is that supposed to prove?
How does it falsify any of this?
[Main article] When we consider the increasing interest in “the supernatural” we’re seeing in Western culture, we do need to consider factors like meaning, influence, deception, devotion, and self indulgence. If we can be influenced by objects, spells, historic associations of obscure symbols, etc., the Bible certainly does not emphasize these in the array of threats we face.
It doesn’t seem to have any relevance to the books in Acts 19 or the rods turned to snakes in Exodus. It doesn’t argue that there is any important difference between false worship directed at a statue vs. false worship directed at anything else that is not God.
It remains clear in Scripture that what Satan and his are focused on in the world is deception and drawing worship away from God to substitutes.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Where does the Bible say that there are objects of power of any kind idolatrous or otherwise?
I have neither affirmed that view nor denied it.
I believe that you do not have the ability to biblically assert whether that is true or not about objects in that regard. The Bible does not even begin to reveal to us exhaustively what God does and does not allow demons to do in afflicting humans, including Christians who dangerously speak against His prohibitions against the works of darkness by claiming that they can have occult items in their possession and the only problem would be an "aesthetic" one and not a "protective" one.
As I’ve noted, the term ‘false worship’ works fine in my argument for those who prefer to use ‘idolatry’ narrowly.
Your assertion that the occult is false worship lacks any actual biblical support. You still have not produced a single piece of direct biblical evidence to support your view.
Where does the Bible say that there are objects of power of any kind idolatrous or otherwise?
I have neither affirmed that view nor denied it.
[Edit: Got a little frustrated there… to no one’s edification. Removed.]
So do you or don’t you believe there are such things as objects that have spiritual power? If so, where is this in the Bible?
Your assertion that the occult is false worship lacks any actual biblical support. You still have not produced a single piece of direct biblical evidence to support your view.
Seriously? I didn’t say “occult is false worship.” I said Satan’s goal is false worship.
It remains clear in Scripture that what Satan and his are focused on in the world is deception and drawing worship away from God to substitutes.
This is supported from Scripture in the article and subsequent posts.
As is this, which remains a pretty good summary of the thesis…
[Main article] When we consider the increasing interest in “the supernatural” we’re seeing in Western culture, we do need to consider factors like meaning, influence, deception, devotion, and self indulgence. If we can be influenced by objects, spells, historic associations of obscure symbols, etc., the Bible certainly does not emphasize these in the array of threats we face.
What I have said about “occult” is that it is not a Bible word or even truly a Bible concept. It’s a modern concept.
This I have also supported three ways:
- Question: where is “occult” as a term or a defined category in Scripture?
- External evidence: the history of the term.
Why does that even matter? Well, if we impose modern categories on Scripture we often end up reading our assumptions back into Scripture and acting like they’re obvious, when—not only are they not obvious, they aren’t even there.
OK, I need to walk away from this conversation. By now, my view and the reasons behind it are clear. Nothing in the replies amounts to a successful counterargument, as far as I can tell.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
So do you or don’t you believe there are such things as objects that have spiritual power? If so, where is this in the Bible?
I believe that it is highly probable that God allows Satan and his demons to use forbidden occult objects to afflict and oppress sinful humans. The Bible speaks many times of the occult and gives no details about those practices. Nor does the Bible ever say that God has provided us with exhaustive information in Scripture about all the things of the occult. I do not believe therefore that there is any biblical basis to say with any certainty that there are no forbidden occult items that God allows demons to use to afflict and oppress sinful humans.
[RG]Your assertion that the occult is false worship lacks any actual biblical support. You still have not produced a single piece of direct biblical evidence to support your view.
[AB]Seriously? I didn’t say “occult is false worship.” I said Satan’s goal is false worship.
The following are two of your previous statements. Note especially the second sentence.
In any case, the Bible never teaches that the occult is either idolatry or false worship. In fact, it explicitly distinguishes the occult from these sins.
I believe that the following statements are problematic in various respects:
I said Satan’s goal is false worship.
It remains clear in Scripture that what Satan and his are focused on in the world is deception and drawing worship away from God to substitutes.
The Bible explicitly says that Eve was deceived by the serpent but gives no evidence that Eve worshiped anything but God. Furthermore, Scripture explicitly says that Adam was not deceived when he sinned against God.
It is true that Satan uses deception greatly, but Satan does not need deception to get sinful humans to rebel against God. In addition to Adam's not being deceived, there is no basis in Scripture that I know of to say that David was deceived into sinfully numbering the people, that Judas was deceived into betraying Christ, that Ananias and Sapphira were deceived into doing what they did, etc.
Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: 21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
This passage teaches us the following truths:
- The remaining sinful humans who will not be killed (9:20) will not repent of the works of their hands, which is then specified to be the worship of demons and idols. Such worship certainly is sinful or false worship.
- Note that verse 21 plainly begins with a kind of sin that we would not say is sinful or false worship: murders.
- Note that verse 21 then also speaks of 3 other kinds of sins: sorceries, fornication, thefts. The plain implication is that none of the 4 other kinds of sins spoken of in verse 21 is intended to be understood as the sinful or false worship that is talked about in verse 20.
- This passage clearly teaches us that we are to distinguish between sinful or false worship (9:20) and sorceries (9:21).
This passage does not support the view that the occult is idolatry or false worship and provides plain evidence to reject such a view.
Earlier in this thread, the following statement was made:
"The things we moderns call occult are like an appendix to his [Satan's] main playbook."
I have argued against this view in several previous comments. In support of the evidence that I have already provided against this view, the following passage provides conclusive evidence against it:
Revelation 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
This climactic teaching about God's ultimate destruction of end-times Babylon teaches us that His judgment of her will be because all nations will have been deceived by her sorceries. Plainly, whatever Satan and his demons will have ever used to deceive all the nations of the world is not some minor, secondary, or lesser aspect of his playbook that merits attention only as an "appendix."
At the zenith of Satan's power and dominion over the world in the end times, Babylon's occult practices will have been at the forefront of his worldwide deceptive activities that will occasion God's total destruction of Babylon.
Based on what Scripture explicitly says in Revelation 18:23 and elsewhere, it is clear that the Bible does not teach that the occult is "like an appendix to his [Satan's] main playbook."
In case any are still in doubt on this point, this from the article:
Satan’s Modus Operandi
Jesus’ direct teaching on how the Devil works is fundamental.
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. (Jn 8:44)
Jesus first characterizes the Devil as “a murderer,” but everything after that focuses on his character as a deceiver. Consider also Revelation 12:9, the events of Genesis 3, and 2 Corinthians 11:3.
The implication is that Satan’s method is to get humans to believe things that are not true. Even in his role as tempter, he relies heavily on communication of untruths (see Matt 4:1-11) as well as appeals to the desires of fallen minds and bodies (James 1:14).
Occultic symbols that carry no meaning to an observer are not deceiving, because they aren’t communicating anything. Even if the observer knows what the symbols mean, it doesn’t follow that deception is ocurring. You can read Mein Kampf without the slightest risk of becoming a neo-Nazi. Similarly, Satan speaks in familiar language to Jesus during the temptation in Matthew 4 (Luke 4, Mark 1), but Jesus is not at risk of being deceived.
I’m not about to populate my shelves with objects covered in occultic symbols. But the reasons for that are aesthetic, not protective. I would not be in danger of absorbing evil influence. If I could read the symbols, there might be some increased vulnerability there, but Christians are far more at risk of deception through Satanic communication that is subtle.
A study of phrases like “be not deceived” in Scripture rarely references Satan and never references occultic symbols. This is because we’re so often ready to deceive ourselves (e.g., James 1:22) or to believe lies and half-truths from sources we find appealing (2 Tim 3:13-14, 4:3-4).
Satan’s Idolatrous Goal
Though the scene in Eden doesn’t include a call to bow down before the serpent, there is a clear strategy to replace devotion to God with devotion to something else (self). And even in the temptation of Jesus, the Devil does not content himself with trying to disqualify Jesus from His mission. He directly calls on Him to bow (Matt 4:9). Further, Paul directly links worship of idols to worship of demons (1 Co 10:20).
I note also that though Rev 18.23 identifies sorcery as one of the means of deception, Rev 12.9 and many other passages (Genesis 3 for example) mention or depict his deceptive work with no sorcery implied in the passage. If Satan usually deceives without using sorcery, and once in a while deceives by that means… well, it’s kind of an appendix in his playbook.
I mean, think about it. Sorcery is obviously suspect. Even a lot of non-Christians associate sorcery with the Devil. How effective is deception if you announce in a super obvious way “OK, I’m going to deceive you now”? Satan’s deadliest tools are the ones that we are least likely to suspect and be wary of. This is why we are told to be sober and vigilant (1Pet 5.8).
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
I note also that though Rev 18.23 identifies sorcery as one of the means of deception, Rev 12.9 and many other passages (Genesis 3 for example) mention or depict his deceptive work with no sorcery implied in the passage. If Satan usually deceives without using sorcery, and once in a while deceives by that means… well, it’s kind of an appendix in his playbook.
These remarks strike me as downplaying a profoundly important text. Rev. 18:23 does much more than identify sorcery as one of the means of deception---it explicitly says that the sorceries of Babylon are what all the nations will be deceived by at that point. How anyone can think that something that will be of worldwide relevance can be regarded as something that only merits a mention in an appendix . . .
I mean, think about it. Sorcery is obviously suspect. Even a lot of non-Christians associate sorcery with the Devil. How effective is deception if you announce in a super obvious way “OK, I’m going to deceive you now”? Satan’s deadliest tools are the ones that we are least likely to suspect and be wary of. This is why we are told to be sober and vigilant (1Pet 5.8).
Wow. These statements seem very problematic to me in what they assert versus what the Spirit has revealed. The text plainly says that it will be the sorceries of Babylon that will deceive all the nations of the world. Plainly, those Babylonian sorceries will not be suspect to the multitudes in all the nations who will be deceived by them.
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