Can Fundamental Baptists Find Greater Unity?
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In September, Central Seminary (Plymouth, MN) is hosting an unusual event: a conversation among Baptist leaders with greater unity across splinter groups as a major goal. I asked pastor Greg Linscott, who has led the effort, to tell us more about this conversation.
Q. How did this event come about?
A. A few years ago I began to sense the need for First Baptist of Marshall to become connected with a network more national in scope than our longtime historic affiliation with the Minnesota Baptist Association. Our church has established a ministry with S’gaw Karen refugees from Burma/Myanmar. Because of their missionary connections dating all the way back to Adoniram Judson, the Karen tend to default to the ABC-USA when here in the US. But due to significant differences in doctrine and practice, I did not find that an acceptable option.
As we worked to disciple the believers we had influenced, we wanted to be able to familiarize them with churches whose doctrine would emphasize the authority of Scripture and who would be in general agreement with we teach at First Baptist (including specifics such as a young-earth creationist perspective, cessationist position, and pre-trib dispensationalism) but who also had a large enough network nationally that it would be practical to point Karen believers there as they eventually begin to relocate across the US. The GARBC fit those criteria.
Furthermore, in my limited encounters with Regular Baptists in Minnesota, it had seemed to me that congregations in the MBA and MARBC had much in common with one another—certainly as much as they did with churches in their own associations. The two associations had already been jointly supporting a church planter’s efforts in the Twin Cities metro, and the influence of Central Seminary graduates in both Minnesota associations had further served to draw attention to the commonality the two constituencies had with one another.
As I began the process of preparing our church to formally fellowship with the GARBC and MARBC (while still retaining our affiliation with the MBA), I learned that John Greening, National Representative of the GARBC, was lined up to speak to the MARBC’s 2014 annual meeting. This event was to be held the same week as the MBA’s Men’s Fellowship (an event for which I serve as president), where it had been arranged for Mike Harding, who is prominent in the FBFI, to be our speaker. I was also aware of Kevin Bauder’s work on a history of Baptist Fundamentalism (the recently published One In Hope and Doctrine from RBP). To have two prominent individuals from national Baptist organizations in the same state seemed like too good an opportunity to pass up.
I contacted Sam Horn (President of Central Seminary) and Matt Morrell (Pastor at Fourth Baptist) to see if they might be interested in arranging an event featuring these two men alongside Kevin Bauder, addressing the current state of Baptist Fundamentalism and its potential future. From the beginning, they were intrigued and enthusiastic about making something happen. The initial participants quickly agreed to participate. We explored a few possibilities before eventually arriving at the current luncheon format on the Fourth/Central campus. Mike Harding turned out to be unable to attend due to a conflict. Though I was disappointed with Harding’s absence, Dr. Mike Sproul of Tri-City Baptist Church/International Baptist College and Seminary was interested and available, and graciously agreed to participate in the role that had been vacated.
Q. What do you hope to accomplish?
A. I had a conversation with a fellow pastor recently. His church has gone through some significant turmoil and division over the last few months. He lamented the fact that because of some of his own past decisions over the years, he had isolated himself from fellowship with other pastors and churches around him. “No one should have to go through things like this alone,” my friend said, sadly. There is a sense that we need to take that to heart, both locally and on a larger scale. Sorrows shared reduce the weight of the burdens being carried. Celebrating joys and triumphs can encourage and motivate others in their own contexts of ministry. Opportunities can bear more fruit with the enhanced resources of combined efforts.
I think it is fair to say that in the recent past, many parties in these Baptist constituencies have been somewhat distrustful and suspicious of each other. I envision this occasion providing a venue where misunderstandings and misconceptions about one another can be addressed and clarified. Ultimately, the fruits of this conversation may leave us in a position to see if the commonality we share in matters of doctrinal emphasis might prove to be enough of a platform for further collaborative efforts.
This is certainly what I am praying for, and I encourage others to do the same. Our churches already often support many of the same missionaries, send students to many of the same educational institutions, draw on each other for publication and curriculum resources, and so on. Closer working relationships would do nothing but enhance the gospel proclamation and disciple-making efforts of all our churches—not to mention giving a louder collective voice to those championing some doctrinal positions that seem sometimes to be lost in the larger conversation.
Of course, we may also discover that enough differences remain to justify the status quo. The potential benefits that could result from the time taken to have this conversation, however, deserve at least such an effort as this event is striving to provide.
Q. What’s planned, in general?
A. I anticipate two panel sessions beginning with some prepared questions, prefaced by a brief historical overview by Bauder, and concluding with analysis and to some degree, possible vision casting for the future coming from Chris Anderson, Matt Morrell, and myself. Lunch will be provided, and a freewill offering will be received to help with expenses.
Q. What do you think has prevented conversations of this sort in the past and how is the situation today different?
A. It is a historical fact that there were differences in influential personalities that became significant factors in the formation of these separate Baptist identities and organizations. Further complicating this historically, there were competing strategies in relation to the Northern Baptist Convention early on. Time moves on, and the issues and personalities of the earliest days are no longer directly relevant to the circumstances of today—but residual tension lingers. Some remember later concerns that developed that were legitimate at the time, but fail to acknowledge how those legitimate concerns were eventually addressed. Some focus on the contrasts the “other side” has in methods and practices they tolerate—while failing to acknowledge similar ranges that exist in their own sphere of influence.
I do not mean to say that differences do not exist. At the same time, I think it fair to say that the range of differences can be as easily observed from one individual congregation to another, regardless of organizational affiliation. When it comes to unifying matters at an organizational level, the principles themselves are remarkably similar.
One thing that has helped pave the way for something like this conversation is what I like to call “cross-pollination.” Here in Minnesota, as I have already mentioned, we have Central Seminary graduates serving in MBA and MARBC congregations. Similar observations could be made here for graduates of Faith, Maranatha, BJU, and Northland. Educational institutions have provided a venue for developing familiarity in working relationships. The Internet has helped, as over the last decade, people have been able to access content and interact with individuals whose ideas they can affirm, but whose connections might not always be the familiar ones. There has been some intentional bridge building on national conference platforms, too.
Q. The answer to this one probably depends somewhat on the outcome of this event, but can you tell us more about what you’d like to see happen in the future?
A. As you say, I think that much remains to be seen, and will be influenced by the preceding panel sessions. I wouldn’t want to presume to speak for any of the others. At the same time, as Bauder has observed, “unity is a function of what unites.” It is my prayer that whatever else might happen, those who come would leave encouraged, being more aware of the degree of unity they share with these like-minded brothers.
If you want anything more specific than that, you’ll have to come and join the conversation!
Aaron Blumer 2014 Bio
Aaron Blumer, is a Michigan native and graduate of Bob Jones University and Central Baptist Theological Seminary (Plymouth, MN). He and his family live in small-town western Wisconsin, not far from where he pastored Grace Baptist Church for thirteen years.
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Paul,
Mike Sproul is already working on organizing something along those lines in Arizona in 2016 (Aaron, that might be something to think about for a future interview article). I can’t imagine he wouldn’t be reaching out to the guys at MBU. I agree that doing something like this more regularly is needed.
It was good to see you and your father there, even if we only briefly interacted.
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
The more I read of this, the more I’m encouraged to see my Baptist brothers coming together. Just for fun I took out my Uno cards in an attempt to read the future. I think this is going to work. The majority of these men see the big picture and are willing to overlook their minor differences. I don’t think that we’ll see the FBFI as a whole going along but there will be individuals from the fellowship who will. After all, the FBFI is a group of independent individuals.
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
[Don Johnson] Which side of the border would Charles Swindoll be on?Not an incidental matter, in my opinion.
Who cares? Was Swindoll at the meeting?
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
[Greg Linscott]I knew where he was going… and it’s not even that the matter he raises isn’t worth discussing. But it does seem like a lobbed grenade into the middle of something promising.
Something promising… well, we’ll see. However when your basis for a beginning appears to be fuzzy on the boundaries at the start, it is hard to see how the ending will promise much success.
Or do you think Swindoll is on the right side of the boundary?
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
Well let’s see. One of the speakers at that conference had the opportunity to have Swindoll’s church choir record his songs for a CD. This makes the entire conference suspect. Never mind that every CD produced by any organization Don approves of uses secular studios and at least some non-Christian musicians.
So one of the speakers at the conference several years ago used an evangelical choir to produce a CD. That taints everything apparently. And yet Don’s preferred group brings in Clarence Sexton to speak at this year’s meeting.
The nicest word I can say about Don’s attack is that it is inconsistent.
So I’ll not bother with a further reply.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
To be quite honest, I get the impression you really don’t want anything like a fundamentalist consensus to come to pass. I wish I understood why.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
Don, I will be happy for you to point out what I said was inaccurate. I am not sure what you know about Anderson and Swindoll. I do know what happened and you might want to find out before you decide that Swindoll’s choir recording his songs taints him forever. A CD was produced. So what? Make a case for why a conservative musician should not go get the best musicians he can when recording. That choir and orchestra is basically professional and Anderson got a chance to use them almost for free. If there is something wrong with that, why don’t you enlighten us with what it is instead of making vague condemnations.
If a fundamentalist consensus includes ministry partnership with the likes of Charles Swindoll, count me out.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
Swindoll was not under discussion up at the luncheon at Central, and I’m not expecting him to be invited to a prospective fundamentalist conference. But, you appear to have your mind set against the vision articulated in Greg’s article - based on a figment of your imagination.
Feel free to count yourself out, I suppose. It doesn’t have to be that way. I hope you reconsider.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
Don,
I am not going to discuss Swindoll here, because he wasn’t on the panel. If you want to start a new thread, feel free. I would be happy to participate.
If you are faulting the panel because it included Chris Anderson… well, fault me away, as the one who organized the event. I was happy to sit alongside each man on that panel, and gladly consider all of them as brothers and co-laborers, though we all have things with which we could disagree to some extent with one another in areas of doctrine and application.
While I might not have made the same decision Chris did, I don’t think that his decision is as black and white as you appear to. I don’t appear to be alone in that (link).
So, I suppose if this effort is suspect because of Chris, you’d better ditch all your Majesty Music materials now, too. Might as well throw Colonial Hills Baptist and The Wilds under the bus while you’re at it.
Personally, I don’t see Chris’s decision as terribly dissimilar to Kevin Bauder publishing a book with Zondervan, or John Vaughn representing the FBFI on a platform with people like Jack Schaap and Clarence Sexton, or BJU featuring Sexton as a speaker, or Dan Forrest having his music performed at Carnegie Hall by a choir and orchestra from a non-Fundamentalist church or institution. People might wrestle with the legitimacy of application- and I probably would wrestle with it, myself, if I were confronted with such a choice. But I don’t think that his reaching a decision that is different than the one I might have made is grounds to separate. I admire what he has written, use it regularly, and recommend it without reservation. If others are recognizing its value outside of our boundaries and desire to use it, I rejoice that the truth God has used Chris to proclaim is getting a wide audience. I extend the same grace to my brother Chris, in fact, that I extend to those of you in the FBFI who allow yourselves to be connected with questionable bibliology like Sexton, or divisive and spiteful personalities like Lou Martuneac. I don’t discard the value of the relationships just because your relationships extend further than mine might or do. There’s room for differences.
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
Greg,
I read your report on the meeting. So glad that Dr. Sproul could take my place, since I had to be at BJU for the investiture that weekend. We do need unity among Baptist Fundamentalists. I am on the board of the IFBAM now called IFBFM. I also serve on the alumni committee for DBTS, the board of FBFI, the executive board of BJU, and VP of Mich Assc. of Christian Schools. I know the differences among these groups, but they are all Fundamental Baptists. In the MACS one of our strongest churches and schools is Calvary Baptist Midland—GARBC Your meeting was to have a better understanding of our differences and how best to handle them in a biblical and God-honoring way. Thank you.
As far as Chris is concerned, he is a bright and godly pastor who has recently taken Killian Hill Baptist Church and School. He is doing a fine job there. All the major players in recording conservative Christian music have used musicians and recording studios from a wide variety of backgrounds. It is not reasonable to criticize Chris for this and give the others a complete pass. I like Chris’ music and it has been very refreshing. Very well done. I am thankful that people outside of our circles find the music and words powerful and edifying. None of us are above criticism, but I don’t think it is reasonable or remotely consistent to go after Chris for this.
Pastor Mike Harding
[Don Johnson]Greg Linscott wrote:
I knew where he was going… and it’s not even that the matter he raises isn’t worth discussing. But it does seem like a lobbed grenade into the middle of something promising.
Something promising… well, we’ll see. However when your basis for a beginning appears to be fuzzy on the boundaries at the start, it is hard to see how the ending will promise much success.
Or do you think Swindoll is on the right side of the boundary?
Kudos to Mike Harding for a concise, clear, and helpful response.
As for what I have to say…well, this passage came to mind.
Luke 7:31-35
“To what then shall I compare the people of this generation, and what are they like? They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling to one another,
“‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not weep.’
For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is justified by all her children.”
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
Thanks Mike Harding for your thoughtful and gracious contribution. Thanks Greg Linscott for initiating this dialog. Thanks to others who see big picture.
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
In it, he offers a “choice quote” from Chris Anderson:
For some fundamentalists … we allow people to deny the necessity of repentance, we can allow people to be borderline heretical on their Bibliology, but if they don’t have music we agree with, that is worth fighting over… . I think, as we “triage” where we can differ and where we can give each other some space—there has to be a border somewhere—but I think at some point … what is really more vital—a stout expositional ministry and doctrinal integrity, or the fact that somebody is to my left musically?
I am keying on the line “there has to be a border somewhere”
I agree.
But where is that border? Chris reported on his activity with Swindoll here and here. (There might have been one other post, I forget.) Anyway, Chris is being held forth here as having something to say to Fundamentalists as to where they should be in the future. I think it is legitimate to ask if his credentials are affected by his practices. I think it is legitimate to question where Swindoll is with respect to the border Chris speaks of.
If that is an attack, so be it. I just would like to know whether such activity represents legitimate ministry cooperation or not.
I presume Chris is still a member of this forum, I’m sure he can answer for himself if he wishes.
I would also suggest that some people have forgotten Swindoll’s Grace Awakening and just how much a travesty that was.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
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