"How the push to be ‘radical’ and ‘missional’ discourages ordinary people in ordinary places from doing ordinary things to the glory of God"

The ‘new legalism’ or rather ‘how to make a case for staying a cultural christian’.

They may be onto something here. I’m convinced that the success image that drives much of American culture, including the church culture, is a primary “youthful lust” that Paul, under inspiration, commands Timothy to “flee.”

Two concepts in Scripture that are held in tension:

1) “To whom much is given much is required.” I think the missional/radical mindset has this in spades, and that is a good thing.

2) The gift and the calling are the same. That all are not gifted to the same level of missional/radical is a Holy Spirit thing, and that seems to be what the article is primarily addressing.

Balance! Learn balance.

The Bible, in both testaments and covenants, explicitly teach separation from the world. Israel was supposed to remain separate socially, politically, economically, culturally, and of course in terms of religion from the pagan tribes that surrounded it, and Israel’s fall was due to their failure to do so, and becoming even worse than pagan nations as a result. And the church is oft told to remain separate from the world, and that to love the world is to hate God. And like Israel, the church soon began to embrace the world’s institutions and ways.

In America, we have been told that the teachings on avoiding worldliness doesn’t apply because since America is a “Christian nation” it isn’t part of the world to begin with. Instead, “worldliness” becomes abandoning traditional values for counterculture. Ultimately, once you accept the idea of “Christendom”, an earthly Christian kingdom, there is nothing to separate from. Indeed, rendering under Caesar that which is Caesar’s and giving to God what is God’s is bad and wrong, because a Christian has an obligation to do whatever he can to support “Christendom” and attempting to separate from it at the very least weakens it, and quite possibly makes you a traitor and an agent of Satan.

The reality is that “the American dream” that Bradley is criticizing Platt and others for rejecting is love for material things and mammon, the world rewarding you for excelling in its ways. The only way to think any different is to regard America as a Christian nation where working to uphold its norms is virtuous in a Christian sense. Bradley talks about people doing what is best for their family lives when the Bible tells us to hate our mothers and fathers to follow him. Basically, what Bradley is talking about is totally irrelevant to the experience of Christians that face persecution (social ostracism, economic hardship, imprisonment, martyrdom) and requires a society that respects and promotes Christianity to be valid. It is useless to a Christian living in Iraq and Israel, and in 20 years may be useless to Christians living in America.

I can totally identify with what I think the writer is trying to say here. (And as Job points out, he may not have said it very clearly.) All of my teenage life and then in Bible college I was told that I was great and that I could do great things for God, and all that I needed to do was step out on faith.

I don’t want to rehash my whole life story here, but every time I seemed to be “fulfilling my destiny” as a full-time minister, it ended quickly in disaster, parts of which were my own fault and parts of which weren’t. In between I found whatever work I could, including four years as a pizza delivery driver. I am currently a records clerk for the city where I live. I was always faithful to whatever church I was a member of, and was and am still involved in numerous ministries.

I personally believe every step along that way was part of God’s plan for me, but I will not deny feeling envy and shame when my classmates and friends were becoming pastors and Christian school principals while I was delivering pizza. A big part of my journey has been coming to terms with the fact that God wants me to be faithful where He has placed me, especially when I didn’t want to be there. The shame I felt did not come from God, but from my own jealous heart. I freely admit that. But I do believe that camp speakers and youth pastors need to stop pushing everyone into full-time ministry. I’m sure it doesn’t happen everywhere, but it sure did in the circles I was brought up in. Of course we need to teach commitment to Christ, but we also need to teach that someone can be fully committed to Christ while doing a secular job, just as someone can be a pastor or missionary and not be fully committed to Christ. Instead of teaching commitment as a vocation, we need to teach commitment as a call to obey wherever God calls us. And, as the author said, if God calls us to live an “unspectacular” life in a secular job and 2.5 kids and a white picket fence, then we need to live that life just as committed to Christ as someone He calls to evangelize unreached tribes. The “legalism” the author is talking about is the legalism that says if you are not doing something “cool” with your life then you are not really following Christ.

A big part of my journey has been coming to terms with the fact that God wants me to be faithful where He has placed me, especially when I didn’t want to be there. The shame I felt did not come from God, but from my own jealous heart. I freely admit that. But I do believe that camp speakers and youth pastors need to stop pushing everyone into full-time ministry. I’m sure it doesn’t happen everywhere, but it sure did in the circles I was brought up in. Of course we need to teach commitment to Christ, but we also need to teach that someone can be fully committed to Christ while doing a secular job, just as someone can be a pastor or missionary and not be fully committed to Christ.

Amen! Very well said.

“For too many millennials their greatest fear in this life is being an ordinary person with a non-glamorous job, living in the suburbs, and having nothing spectacular to boast about.”

Echoing Darren Mc here — But this was true for the baby boomers, too. I (wrongly? unnecessarily?) felt exactly that way in 1982 upon graduation from BJU, heading for law school.

I would not be surprised to learn that many in the previous generation also had the fear of being ordinary. We’re all self-absorbed human beings.

I don’t know if this applies exactly, but it is one of my favorite quotes:

Certainly, in our own little sphere it is not the most active people to whom we owe the most. Among the common people whom we know, it is not necessarily those who are busiest, not those who, meteor-like, are ever on the rush after some visible charge and work. It is the lives, like the stars, which simply pour down on us the calm light of their bright and faithful being, up to which we look and out of which we gather the deepest calm and courage. It seems to me that there is reassurance here for many of us who seem to have no chance for active usefulness. We can do nothing for our fellow-men. But still it is good to know that we can be something for them; to know (and this we may know surely) that no man or woman of the humblest sort can really be strong, gentle, pure, and good, without the world being better for it, without somebody being helped and comforted by the very existence of that goodness. —PHILLIPS BROOKS

The essence of “not I but Christ” is the willingness to accept the path that Christ may lead us down and be salt and light along that path. Whether it is as a doctor, missionary, pastor, teacher, plumber, or carpenter, do your job-do it well-point others to Christ along the way.

One of the concerns I have about ‘radical’ Christianity is the “Look at me” element. There is almost a demand that you brag about what you are doing that is over the top and totally awesome. For the Lord, of course. But you have to prove you are doing something ‘sacrificial’, preferably in another time zone.

There are literally dozens of volunteer opportunities right in our own backyard, but those are often overlooked because they just aren’t ‘radical’ enough. We’ve had extreme sports, and now we have to have ‘extreme Christianity’.

[Susan R]

One of the concerns I have about ‘radical’ Christianity is the “Look at me” element. There is almost a demand that you brag about what you are doing that is over the top and totally awesome. For the Lord, of course. But you have to prove you are doing something ‘sacrificial’, preferably in another time zone.

There are literally dozens of volunteer opportunities right in our own backyard, but those are often overlooked because they just aren’t ‘radical’ enough. We’ve had extreme sports, and now we have to have ‘extreme Christianity’.

Narcissism defines our current culture, so why should it not define our churches as well? Our recent church history proves an eagerness to invite all facets of common culture into the church, so I really would not expect much better discernment in this area either.

Doesn’t the Bible call us to be faithful as opposed to being “Culturally Relevant?” In all this hoopla about being “Relevant” and “Engaging the Culture” or however you want to describe it in fact secondary to our primary calling?

I recently read of a faithful servant leader who had many substantial responsibilities both at church and at work. They were neither flashy nor concerned with being “Culturally Relevant.” This person simply served faithfully when given a task because of love for the Lord and others. This person served the Lord for over 30 years before an illness took her to heaven. At her funeral service it was widely recognized this person was humble and steadfastly faithful all the way to the end. Several hundred people came to the funeral service from many different towns to give their respect.

Would this person be called “Relevant” and be accepted by those in the stampede to be “Engaging the Culture?”

Of course relevance and being in the culture has its place. But in the rush to be cool and with-it, I believe our primary calling is overlooked. The idea of relevance is referenced in the Bible of course, but the weight of direct and indirect teaching and commandments to faithfulness and obedience is far, far greater.

As for me, I’d rather be called faithful than relevant.

Doesn’t the Bible call us to be faithful as opposed to being “Culturally Relevant?”

How did these two become opposites, or mutually exclusive? Are we being faithful if we aren’t relevant?

The Bible is filled with examples relevance. Every single book was written to people living an historical situatedness about issues of their lives that needed to be addressed by God’s word. For us to do less seems to not follow the pattern of the Bible. If we do not follow that example of speaking the word of God into the historical situatedness of people, then we are not being faithful to the text, are we?

“Relevant” seems to be a new Christian code word for “cool”.

Oops- wrong decade.

How very bizarre that the call to follow Jesus and shun the unbiblical connection to the american dream could be called legalism. How bizarre that it is written off as a call to be relevant. Have you people read the book or just the article?

Jesus called people to follow him above everything else. The idea of being radical isn’t about announcing anything to anyone. If anything is in the way of following Jesus though, you need to change. If that is legalism, then so be it. If that makes you uncomfortable, good.

Larry, I don’t believe Faithfulness and Relevance are mutually exclusive. As I said I think the issue of relevance has its place. No one lives in a vacuum culturally so you can’t ignore it.

But, I do think in the mad scramble to be cool, err … relevant, I think there is a lot of trampling on the idea of being simply faithful to where the Lord has put someone.

Look, I get it. I mean after all, isn’t it cooler to be involved in something big and spectacular as opposed to being faithful? How boring is that? (tongue in cheek)

Take the pastor of a small town church in say, Iowa. That church may not grow all that much in numbers over the years. The pastor and his wife may have gone through several ups and downs with people coming and going - like all churches do. There have been times of discouragement and times of joy. The pastor may not be the most dynamic of speakers, but he is respected in the community and loved by his people. He ministers in the county jail a couple times a month and has personally ministered to thousands of people over the course of his ministry. Through all the ups and downs he has remained steadfastly faithful & stuck by the stuff.

Was this pastor cool, culturally relevant? Did he host a huge tri-county, 15 church, evangelistic circus tent meeting with Big Daddy Weave and The Next Big Thing Big Shot Speaker? No. He was simply faithful, preached the whole council of God boldly year after year after year. To some that might be dull and boring. Some Christians would say this man was a waste because his ministry didn’t grow. But this man is doing what he truly believes God has called him to do.

When that pastor gets to heaven I would like to think it would be said “Well done thou good and faithful servant” even though he wasn’t Relevant or hip by the standard of many men today.

Again, not saying relevance doesn’t have its place. It cannot be ignored.

But I believe it is secondary to being Faithful.