Coming Out at Liberty University: The Story of One Gay LU Grad

[Chip Van Emmerik]

This is sad but not shocking. I am two years into an online grade degree at Liberty. Part of the reason i chose them was because they generally recognized as a conservative evangelical school, but that has not been my experience. I just finished a class on conflict resolution where we had a secular text but did not spend a single minute on scriptural principles. I have had texts by 3rd wave charismatics who openly promoted additional reading from universalists and lots of squishy theology. It has been very disappointing - as is this whole story.

Everything is done within a biblical and Scriptural worldview.

http://www.sbts.edu/edd/

I’d rather look at SBTS, Dallas, or one of those schools before I’d consider Liberty…but my postgrad studies would almost definitely be for pastoral theology, theology or something like that, not education, like Chip is working on.

Chip’s best option since he’s this far along is probably to finish the schooling at Liberty…and I won’t ‘separate from him’ over that. ;)

Greg,

I appreciate it. Honestly, I didn’t even know SBTS had such a program. Transferring at this point is probably not a good option. Partly for convenience. I have to take three block classes on campus (two are already set for this summer June 1-15) and return to campus to defend my dissertation. Everything else is done online, which makes a difference living in AZ and dealing with dialysis around my work schedule.

Thanks Jay - you’re a rock star. ;) Even if I had been fully aware of all of this from the beginning, I would have leaned heavily toward Liberty because I still think it is a better environment than a secular university would have been and because of the scheduling convenience. At least I wouldn’t have had to experience the disappointment if I had gone in with full knowledge.

The “Gay” counselee:

• At any given Christian college, a student comes in for counseling (say to the counseling office)
• He states that he has a same-sex attraction
• Counseling is ongoing (the counselor has a plan say NANC or Biblical counseling)
• The school has a position that same-sex sexuality is sinful
• The counselor has no knowledge that the counselee has participated in same sex sin
• Should the student be expelled? Put on probation? Etc.
• For the counselor: Should he or she share with school administration (say the President) that the student has a problem? And if so, how much detail? Is there a counselor - counselee privacy agreement?

––––— a little different scenario –––

The “straight” counselee:

• A student comes in for counseling (say to the counseling office)
• He states that he has a problem with lust. He has impure thoughts
• Counseling is ongoing
• The counselor has no knowledge that the counselee has committed fornication
• Should the student be expelled? Put on probation? Etc.
• For the counselor: Should he or she share with school administration (say the President) that the student has a problem? And if so, how much detail? Is there a counselor - counselee privacy agreement?

Jim:

Action should be taken against the straight student, not the homosexual. The policies will be an internal matter. The key point is that the homosexual student has not consummated his sinful lust with actions. The straight student has. He must be disciplined.

I once challenged my fellow Deacons with the scenario:

“What would you do if two men came into church, said they were homosexuals, were unsaved, but wanted to begin attending?”

The distaste on some faces was clearly evident. One man said , “No.” One other nodded his agreement. I asked,

“Why is this any different than an alcoholic? Would we tell him to turn around and lock the church doors after him?”

It isn’t a church discipline issue, because these men aren’t even saved. They need Christ - period. The Scriptural position on homosexuality must clearly, plainly and lovingly be explained to these men. They must be told to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. That alone is the answer. Kicking them out is not.

Jim, neither student should be expelled or put on probation.

Tyler, Jim said neither student acted on his temptations (other than perhaps thoughts).

Tyler - I think Jim is saying that neither student has acted on their temptations and are both seeking help.

I don’t think you can discipline either student. Dealing with temptations to lust (of either kind) is just that - temptation. If the student were being tempted to rape or murder (to push the analogy further), then you have to put safeguards in place because of physical risk to others. But temptations to lust? I’m tempted every day by lust (as is just about any guy that will be honest). I don’t think you can or should involve any other school authorities, but it would probably be wise to enlist the support system at their home as well (provided, of course, that the support system isn’t part of the problem).

I’m reading the excellent book “No Other Gods” by Kelly Minker. She actually touched on the matter of sexual sin there, with the illustration she had met with a friend of hers who traded her body for the feelings of affection and love with a man she’d known for only ten days. The deep seated desire to be loved or cared for that the woman had is where the real problem lie - not in the fact that she slept with a guy she’d not known that long. The sexual activity was just external manifestation of a desire that was being met by something other than God (the guy she’d met - and the ‘idol’ in her life was the feelings of abandonment or unlovedness). The story is a sad but common one, and Minker’s method of approaching it was interesting. The story is in Chapter 6, if anyone has the book - it was free on Kindle for a while, but they’re charging for it now. :(

Jay said: “I think Jim is saying that neither student has acted on their temptations and are both seeking help”

What I am saying is that as far as the counselor knows, neither has acted on his temptations. We all know that counselees are not always forthcoming.

––-

Now back the Liberty case. OK all of this is splashed in the news this week. How can we blame Liberty for their actions. If the guy is a student, it would seem that Liberty would have to act. But is it fair to criticize Liberty for not having acted if they did not know he was a practicing homosexual. And from what I’ve read so far, it is not clear to me that he is now a practicing homosexual.

For some reason, I mis-read Jim’s points. Sorry …

[Jim]

But is it fair to criticize Liberty for not having acted if they did not know he was a practicing homosexual. And from what I’ve read so far, it is not clear to me that he is now a practicing homosexual.

This quote from the Atlantic piece certainly leaves an impression that he might be…

He was right, though—no one believed Eddie and I were just friends. But for some reason, we believed it. Or at least we pretended to. Even though our relationship started out with late-night cuddling and commiserating, it certainly didn’t end there. Before I knew it, we shared our first kiss. Then… well, there were lots of firsts that we shared. But through them all, Eddie remained convinced that he was straight.

Clarified

Thanks

[Jay]

The deep seated desire to be loved or cared for that the woman had is where the real problem lie - not in the fact that she slept with a guy she’d not known that long.