Why Certain Types of Music Make Our Brains Sing, and Others Don’t
“our prediction of musical events remains inexorably bound to our musical upbringing. To explore this phenomenon, a group of researchers met with the Sámi people, who inhabit the region stretching between the northernmost reaches of Sweden and the Kola Peninsula in Russia.” - Neroscience News
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[RajeshG]I’m not sure that God actually has “volume commands” when it comes to corporate worship. Yes, singing needs to be out loud rather than just in our thoughts while listening, but since you yourself made note of people who can’t sing aloud, you must realize that a particular volume is not a hard and fast rule with God.In a very telling statement, CCM has been characterized in this thread as a “genre” where “somebody whispers out the lyrics.”
Ironically, the most “pure” art form might well be CCM, because of that genre’s habit of taking $5000 instruments and basically using them as a metronome while somebody whispers out the lyrics.
To the extent that this statement is true, it shows plainly just how unbiblical CCM is because Scripture makes it plain that whispering out lyrics (excepting, of course, those who are physically incapable of singing aloud) has no place in acceptable corporate worship:
Psalm 81:1 Sing aloud unto God our strength: make a joyful noise unto the God of Jacob.
Several other related passages clearly support this command from God:
Ps. 51:14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
Ps. 59:16 But I will sing of thy power; yea, I will sing aloud of thy mercy in the morning: for thou hast been my defence and refuge in the day of my trouble.
Ps. 149:5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.
If we think that a certain range of vocal techniques and volumes are mandated, and alternatives are excluded, it’s worth noting that a quick word search finds a number of examples of “sighing” in Psalms, and of course in 1 Kings 19, God comes to Elijah with a ….whisper. I can certainly imagine composing a hymn about the matter where the approach of the Lord would rightly be communicated that way. Really, if we are to sing of God’s goodness and return our praise to Him, shouldn’t the ordinary range of human expression—whispering, speaking, singing, shouting, etc..—be in play? That’s certainly what Scripture records.
Really, Rajesh, this is a basic logical error on your part, where you’re asserting that because God tells Israel to praise Him a certain way in some places, that other ways of praising Him are proscribed. Hasty generalization, among other things.
Regarding the question of the testimonies of unbelievers and “professional occultists”, Ron’s comment here says it all. To take the testimony of Gene Simmons or Mickey Hart (or whoever) at face value without considering the possibility that part of what they’re doing is just part of the schtick, and not a genuine conviction, is a really basic mistake of interpretation. Any lawyer skilled at cross examination would be simply incredulous at that, as would any journalist who says “If your mother says she loves you, check it out.”
By the way, Rajesh, I see no attempt on your part to present any genre of music as being uncontaminated by the occult. There’s a reason for this. There isn’t any.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
[Kevin Miller]Of course, I read what you said. I actually read it over and over several times.Now you are the one not understanding. Did you even read my question? I’m not disputing that professional occultists exist nor that the Bible refers to them. I’m wondering how you can say that the information given by them outside of the Bible is “fully authentic” when the words “fully authentic” mean “100% accurate.” Do you really believe that they are NEVER wrong? That is what your words are saying!
No, that is not what my words are saying. I have never said that they are never wrong. You are the one who is misunderstanding what I have said. Go back and read again what I actually said.
[Kevin Miller]No, what God commands is what must be done. Singing out loud is not just the opposite of singing in our thoughts—it is also the opposite of whispering.I’m not sure that God actually has “volume commands” when it comes to corporate worship. Yes, singing needs to be out loud rather than just in our thoughts while listening, but since you yourself made note of people who can’t sing aloud, you must realize that a particular volume is not a hard and fast rule with God.
When someone physically is incapable of doing something, that does not legitimize that those who are capable of doing what God commands can characteristically choose not to do what He says and do the same thing as what those who are incapable do because of their genuine inability to do what God commands.
There is zero Bible basis to hold that singing in worship that is characteristically whispering is acceptable in corporate worship.
[RajeshG]I think you’re just playing games with me now. I realize you have never said written the words “They are never wrong,” but that that doesn’t mean you don’t believe it. You just haven’t put those words in print. What you have done is made a statement that means exactly the same thing. You’ve said the information that they pass on is “fully authentic information” about their “fully authentic occult practices.” That means that everything they say about their occult practices is 100% percent true and they never lie or make any false statements about their occult practices. I’m just taking your words at face value after reading them over and over several times.Of course, I read what you said. I actually read it over and over several times.
No, that is not what my words are saying. I have never said that they are never wrong. You are the one who is misunderstanding what I have said. Go back and read again what I actually said.
If a professional occultist tells someone that they have made contact with the spirit of that someone’s dead relative, should that person believe the professional occultist? After all, according to you, professional occultists pass on fully authentic information about their fully authentic occult practices. If the occultist should not be believed, then why should this fully authentic information not be believed?
[Kevin Miller]This is utter nonsense. You refuse to deal with what the Bible reveals and the inescapable implications of what God has revealed. Either you believe that the people that God says were professional occultists were fully authentic professional occultists or not. You have no biblical basis to say that God is wrong and that they were not.I think you’re just playing games with me now. I realize you have never said written the words “They are never wrong,” but that that doesn’t mean you don’t believe it. You just haven’t put those words in print. What you have done is made a statement that means exactly the same thing. You’ve said the information that they pass on is “fully authentic information” about their “fully authentic occult practices.” That means that everything they say about their occult practices is 100% percent true and they never lie or make any false statements about their occult practices. I’m just taking your words at face value after reading them over and over several times.
If a professional occultist tells someone that they have made contact with the spirit of that someone’s dead relative, should that person believe the professional occultist? After all, according to you, professional occultists pass on fully authentic information about their fully authentic occult practices. If the occultist should not be believed, then why should this fully authentic information not be believed?
Either you believe that the people that God says were professional occultists engaged in fully authentic occult practices or you do not. You have no biblical basis to say that they did not engage in such fully authentic practices.
Either you believe that those people could and did transmit fully authentic information to others about those fully authentic occult practices or you do not. You have no biblical basis for saying that they did not.
The bottom line is that the biblical data shows that you and anybody else who denies the full authenticity of the people that God says were professional occultists are wrong. Those people whom God says were professional occultists were exactly what He said they were.
[RajeshG]There is also zero Bible to hold that any particular volume is necessary for corporate worship, as long as people are singing corporately.No, what God commands is what must be done. Singing out loud is not just the opposite of singing in our thoughts—it is also the opposite of whispering.
When someone physically is incapable of doing something, that does not legitimize that those who are capable of doing what God commands can characteristically choose not to do what He says and do the same thing as what those who are incapable do because of their genuine inability to do what God commands.
There is zero Bible basis to hold that singing in worship that is characteristically whispering is acceptable in corporate worship.
I’m pretty sure the quotation about CCM being characterized by “whispering” is hyperbole anyway. If anything, I’ve found CCM to be characterized by too much volume rather than too little.
[Kevin Miller]Yeah, right. The Bible says that God has commanded people to sing aloud. That command and many other passages show plainly that singing that is characteristically whispering is not acceptable to God in corporate worship.There is also zero Bible to hold that any particular volume is necessary for corporate worship, as long as people are singing corporately.
I’m pretty sure the quotation about CCM being characterized by “whispering” is hyperbole anyway. If anything, I’ve found CCM to be characterized by too much volume rather than too little.
[RajeshG]Here you go again with the games. Do you bother answering my legitimate question? No. You must realize that an honest answer would require you to actually admit that professional occultists can be wrong and you simply don’t want to admit that for some reason.This is utter nonsense. You refuse to deal with what the Bible reveals and the inescapable implications of what God has revealed. Either you believe that the people that God says were professional occultists were fully authentic professional occultists or not. You have no biblical basis to say that God is wrong and that they were not.
Either you believe that the people that God says were professional occultists engaged in fully authentic practices or you do not. You have no biblical basis to say that they did not engage in such fully authentic practices.
Either you believe that those people could and did transmit fully authentic information to others about those fully authentic practices or you do not. You have no biblical basis for saying that they did not.
The bottom line is that the biblical data shows that you and anybody else who denies the full authenticity of the people that God says were professional occultists are wrong. Those people whom God says were professional occultists were exactly what He said they were.
Instead you accuse me of claiming that “God is wrong.” That is such hubris on your part to claim that asking you legitimate questions about your view is the same as saying God is wrong.
I’ll repeat my last question to you to see if you actually want to have an honest conversation or not.
If a professional occultist tells someone that they have made contact with the spirit of that someone’s dead relative, should that person believe the professional occultist? After all, according to you, professional occultists pass on fully authentic information about their fully authentic occult practices. If the occultist should not be believed, then why should this fully authentic information not be believed?
[Kevin Miller]No, I am not going to answer that question or any other question that you direct to me until you deal fully with the biblical data. You are falsely taking what I have said about the biblical data and wrongly extrapolating from it to say false things about what I am saying. It’s not my problem that you do not read carefully what I have said repeatedly about the biblical data and then misapply it.Here you go again with the games. Do you bother answering my legitimate question? No. You must realize that an honest answer would require you to actually admit that professional occultists can be wrong and you simply don’t want to admit that for some reason.
Instead you accuse me of claiming that “God is wrong.” That is such hubris on your part to claim that asking you legitimate questions about your view is the same as saying God is wrong.
I’ll repeat my last question to you to see if you actually want to have an honest conversation or not.
If a professional occultist tells someone that they have made contact with the spirit of that someone’s dead relative, should that person believe the professional occultist? After all, according to you, professional occultists pass on fully authentic information about their fully authentic occult practices. If the occultist should not be believed, then why should this fully authentic information not be believed?
[RajeshG]More games. More games. You simply don’t want to answer obvious questions, do you.No, I am not going to answer that question or any other question that you direct to me until you deal fully with the biblical data. You are falsely taking what I have said about the biblical data and wrongly extrapolating from it to say false things about what I am saying. It’s not my problem that you do not read carefully what I have said repeatedly about the biblical data and then misapply it.
The Biblical data is absolutely true and without error of any kind. Whatever the inspired Word of God says that professional occultists have said, we know for a fact that they have said it because the Bible is inspired and without error. What more needs to be dealt with in regards to the biblical data? I’ve never once denied anything that the Bible has said about professional occultists, so I don’t know what else you want me to say about the biblical data.
It seems to me that you use the biblical data about occultists when someone even suggests that occultists today might be mistaken or even lying at times. But how does the biblical data refute that possibility? I’m not sure, but that doesn’t stop you from repeating it over and over again as if someone shouldn’t even suggest that occultists might be wrong. Does an inspired account of a truthful occultist really show that all occultists are truthful? No one is saying that all occultists lie all the time, so you wouldn’t need to be refuting that illogical claim that no one is making. No, you bring up the “biblical data” when someone even suggests that occultists might be wrong.
So how am I falsely extrapolating what you say about the biblical data? What is it exactly that you want this biblical data to be showing? If you agree that occultists can be wrong and you simply want to show that they sometimes tell the truth, then we are in absolute agreement. I’ve stated previously that they can tell the truth, but when I suggest they might be wrong, you push back with the biblical data, so I can ONLY assume that you think they can’t be wrong. Why else would you argue that point with me?
[RajeshG]Since none of the other passages actually condemn whispering songs, then i wouldn’t agree that the passages “plainly” show that singing that is whispering is unacceptable to God.Yeah, right. The Bible says that God has commanded people to sing aloud. That command and many other passages show plainly that singing that is characteristically whispering is not acceptable to God in corporate worship.
I think in many cases the acceptability of whispering would depend on the song. I’ve been in charge of the Awana program at my church for 10 years and sometimes we have the kids corporately sing a song that starts “Stand up and shout it if you love my Jesus. Sit down and whisper if you love my Lord.” We have the kids stand up and shout while singing the first line and they sit down and whisper while singing the second line. Is it your position that God is pleased with their singing of the first line but He is displeased when they whisper the second line?
[Kevin Miller]I have never done what you wrongly claim in these comments. You are the one who has misread over and over again what I have said to incorrectly repeatedly suggest my holding things that I have never said.It seems to me that you use the biblical data about occultists when someone even suggests that occultists today might be mistaken or even lying at times. But how does the biblical data refute that possibility? I’m not sure, but that doesn’t stop you from repeating it over and over again as if someone shouldn’t even suggest that occultists might be wrong. Does an inspired account of a truthful occultist really show that all occultists are truthful? No one is saying that all occultists lie all the time, so you wouldn’t need to be refuting that illogical claim that no one is making. No, you bring up the “biblical data” when someone even suggests that occultists might be wrong.
Holding a particular position concerning whether occultists can or cannot lie, etc. has never been my point.
[Kevin Miller]The Bible never talks about what you do in Awanas as being corporate worship. What the Bible does talk about in 1 Cor. 14 and many other passages that are about corporate worship shows very plainly that singing that is characterized as whispering is not acceptable corporate worship.Since none of the other passages actually condemn whispering songs, then i wouldn’t agree that the passages “plainly” show that singing that is whispering is unacceptable to God.
I think in many cases the acceptability of whispering would depend on the song. I’ve been in charge of the Awana program at my church for 10 years and sometimes we have the kids corporately sing a song that starts “Stand up and shout it if you love my Jesus. Sit down and whisper if you love my Lord.” We have the kids stand up and shout while singing the first line and they sit down and whisper while singing the second line. Is it your position that God is pleased with their singing of the first line but He is displeased when they whisper the second line?
Scripture reveals that leaven could be used acceptably in one aspect of worship but could not be used acceptably in any offering by fire on an altar. Similarly, even if you could show that whispering singing is acceptable for your kids’ programs, that would not establish anything about singing that is characterized as whispering being acceptable to God in corporate worship.
The Spirit reveals that Pharaoh’s magicians used enchantments to effect demonic miracles (Exod. 7:11, 22; 8:7). Those magicians were fully authentic professional occultists (there is zero basis for anyone to hold that they were merely shysters, charlatans, fakes, etc. who just pretended to be magicians, etc.).
When those fully authentic professional occultists used their enchantments to effect those miracles, they engaged in fully authentic occult practices. No one has any basis to legitimately hold that what they did was just sleight of hand, smoke and mirrors, trickery, or any other such thing.
When those fully authentic professional occultists used those enchantments, they had all the fully authentic information that they needed to do so, and they knew fully authentically how to do everything that they needed to do to use those enchantments to do those miracles.
These fully authentic professional occultists did not get any of their information about how to do those fully authentic miracles from the Bible, from God, from any godly prophet, or from any other godly source.
They did not need to have anything from the Bible to fully authentically know what they needed to know and to do what they fully authentically did when they used those enchantments.
These fully authentic professional occultists were fully authentically able to transmit all the fully authentic information about how to do those fully authentic occult practices that they engaged in when they used those enchantments to do those miracles.
In this manner, not just in their case, but similarly also in many other cases in Scripture, we can know with absolute certainty that fully authentic occultists engaged in fully authentic occult activities without any need for any information from the Bible.
Moreover, they could and undoubtedly did transmit all that fully authentic information to others about those fully authentic practices without any need for anything from the Bible.
Discussion