Faith Baptist Bible College has removed Saylorville [formerly Baptist] Church from its approved churches list

[JVDM] The entire line of thinking might go something like this: Christians should have the same range of emotions in worship. Insofar as music evokes emotion, Christians should also enjoy the same range of music in worship.

I have heard a lot of arguments against certain types of music, but never this one. Would you mind clarifying?

[JVDM] But we also need to remember that a form is not sanctified simply because it is from one’s culture.

Are you saying any forms ARE sanctified? I was under the impression that the process of sanctification was left for people alone.

[JVDM] Number one is the complex emotion of fear, reverence, and awe. Can this emotion which is biblically primary in experiencing God be expressed in (fill-in-the-blank song)

I am curious as to where you are drawing the conclusion that fear/reverence/awe is the primary emotion we should be expressing.

[JVDM] After rereading this post a few times, I’m afraid I’ve been all wrong about the music issue. The real problem facing the church today is basic literacy or perhaps a lack of regeneration. The answer to your third question is such a basic and foundational truth—I am simply dumbfounded that this basic premise could be doubted. But I shouldn’t be surprised. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. A lack of wisdom would naturally flow from a lack of the fear of the Lord.

“Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, for our God is a consuming fire.”

- Heb 12:28–29

I did not realize that I was going to be interacting with a condescending passive aggressive. My questions were legitimate.

1. I read your comments, and did not find any biblical support that we should all experience the same emotions during our time of worship through song. I was simply asking you to clarify. Others have asked the same question.

2. Maybe it was your wording, but you implication was that a form is sanctified (“But we also need to remember that a form is not sanctified simply because it is from one’s culture.”) Your use of “simply because” implies that the form is sanctified because of something, but not just one’s culture.

3. I understand the fact that scripture is where you gleaned your thinking. I was asking how you determined that this should be our primary emotion. There are many references to expressing joy, thanksgiving, gladness, love. I do not disagree that fear, reverence and awe are appropriate emotions during worship through singing, but I was asking how you came to the conclusion that these emotions were primary and every other emotion that God gave us was secondary.

I appreciate your willingness to determine my lack of fearing of the Lord, and my regeneration status. I am reassured daily, that my salvation, faith, hope, and trust is in the Lord, as well as continuing to stand in awe and reverence for the One who has saved me. Because I do not agree with your conclusions, does not call my regeneration or fear of the Lord into question.

wbarkema: I admire your effort, but it’s become clear that it’s a waste of your time, unfortunately. Save yourself the aggravation.

[JVDM] Thanksgiving, gladness, joy, and love are involved in reverence and awe. Reading the Chronicles of Narnia might help one to see this. I assumed this fear mingled with love was understood when speaking of the fear of the Lord or reverence and awe.

Thank you for your clarification. What I am inferring from your remark is that reverence and awe are our two foundational emotions and everything else grows from those two emotions. I disagree, but I appreciate your clarification.

[JVDM] Also, I would ask that you reread my post and pay attention to what I typed. I wasn’t questioning your salvation or your fear of the Lord.

I did reread your post and your implication was that those who do not see it the way you do face a lack of literacy or a lack of regeneration. Your words, not mine.

[JVDM] The fact that a fundamentalist can honestly wonder why “reverence and awe” be insisted upon in worship is mind-boggling to me.

In looking back through the discussion, and also knowing many of the players and those affected on both sides of the Saylorville/FBBC issue, I don’t think anyone has ever stated that reverence and awe should not have a place in worship through music. Our disagreement lies in the fact that not everyone believes those are the only two emotions that should be experienced through our worship through music.

[JVDM] You claim that I gave no biblical basis for what I am saying, which isn’t true. There are 5 biblical examples that demonstrate my point in my comment on the first page of this thread in response to bro. Joel:

If I could ask for the same courtesy you are asking, please reread my response. I stated that I did not see a biblical defense of your claim that we are all to experience the exact same emotions in our worship through song.

Thank you for your interaction.

Anyone know (now two-plus years later) how this played out?

Did any faculty (or students) end up leaving FBBC to remain as members/attenders at Saylorville? Did any faculty (or students) end up leaving Saylorville to remain at FBBC?

Which was impacted more by this: Saylorville or FBBC?

Near Saylorville Church is Capitol City Church (fka “Capitol City Baptist Church”): http://www.capitolcitychurch.com/. Like Saylorville, they dropped the word “Baptist” from their name sometime recently. Looking at the pastoral staff, at least two of the four are identified as being FBBC alumni. (One is a graduate of the college; the other is a graduate of both the college & the seminary.)

Anyone know what relationship FBBC might have with this church? Is it an “Approved” church?

As I recall, Capitol City has or had connections with the BBFI, though I’m not absolutely sure about that. There were a few students who attended CC when I was at Faith in the late 1990s, but there wasn’t the “close-knit” relationship that Faith has historically had with its Regular Baptist constituency.
I’m not sure when the name change took place, but I do remember that there were some exceptions made for local students who attended congregations without “Baptist” in the name (such as Grace Church in Des Moines), presuming they were members before enrolling at Faith.
Greg Long might speak more intelligently to this, too.

[Greg Linscott]

As I recall, Capitol City has or had connections with the BBFI, though I’m not absolutely sure about that. There were a few students who attended CC when I was at Faith in the late 1990s, but there wasn’t the “close-knit” relationship that Faith has historically had with its Regular Baptist constituency.

I’m not sure when the name change took place, but I do remember that there were some exceptions made for local students who attended congregations without “Baptist” in the name (such as Grace Church in Des Moines), presuming they were members before enrolling at Faith.

…so students while they are at FBBC may attend a Baptistic (in belief & practice) church without “Baptist” being in its name as long as they are of local origin and their attendance predates their enrollment, but not if they are non-locals and wished to begin attending such a church upon enrolling (even if it’s a church that students of local origin are permitted to attend)?

I don’t have any vested interest one way or the other, but what’s the rationale or principle involved?