College and Worldview – A Reason for Choosing a Christian Campus

[Jim]

Don Johnson wrote:

But let me ask you, at 23 or 24, when you graduated from your secular college, was your worldview as thoroughly Christian as it would have been if you had gone to Bible college? Would you have been more effective in the ministry AT THAT POINT IN TIME if you had the benefit of a Christian college education?

Someone asked me today if I regretted having a radical prostatectomy (on March 2nd) (instead of the alternative of radiation).

I rarely look back.

I wasn’t saved until the age of 20. At the time of HS graduation I had 2 choices: the military or college. I looked into joining the Navy (I friend of mine did). Dad forbade it. I had then 1 option: work + live at home + commute daily to the University of Cincinnati.

I literally knew nothing of Bible colleges until in my early 20’s I met someone who went to BIOLA

My family’s finances and my own and my own circumstances only had one way. My family gave me $ 275 towards college plus a place to sleep and meals.

Jim, I appreciate all that, but I wasn’t asking why you didn’t go to a Christian college/university. I was responding to this:

I didn’t go to Bible college - I have a Christian worldview!

All I am asking is this, if you think of yourself at that point in time, having just graduated from school, would you likely have had a more fully developed Christian worldview then if the Lord had allowed you to go to a Christian school? My suggestion is that probably you would have, that’s all.

And I’m not advocating Christian education as some sort of cure-all. We know lots of failures that have come from Christian schools, including men and women who went to school with me. All I am saying is that, all things being equal, I think a Christian young person will do better at a Christian school and worldview is one of those areas where they will be greatly helped.

[Don Johnson]

All I am asking is this, if you think of yourself at that point in time, having just graduated from school, would you likely have had a more fully developed Christian worldview then if the Lord had allowed you to go to a Christian school? My suggestion is that probably you would have, that’s all.

Probably. I would have benefited from Bible college. Maybe more from a 1 year Bible diploma between HS and University (More like the old Moody 3 yr program)

[Don Johnson]

All I am saying is that, all things being equal, I think a Christian young person will do better at a Christian school and worldview is one of those areas where they will be greatly helped.

Agreed

[Bert Perry] Well, what do Matthew 28 and 2 Timothy 4 say about the matter? What’s the more important thing for a pastor to be doing, and where do they learn what’s important? Is it cleaning bathrooms and arranging chairs in the auditorium, or something else?

Is there really not enough time to make disciples, or are many pastors (and not just those in single pastor churches) ignoring their calling?

Bert, you’ll get no argument from me on this. However, many churches expect their pastor (and his wife) to do all these things. I was a member of a church where the pastor was explicitly told (by the elder board) that he should not focus on training men for ministry. Further, the elders didn’t want these men learning to preach at our church on a Sunday or Wednesday night because, “that’s what we’re paying you to do.” The elders told the pastor that if these men wanted to learn how to preach and how to do pastoral ministry, they should go to Bible college.

So, Bert, not all churches allow the pastor the freedom and time to do these things.

[T Howard]

Bert Perry wrote:

Well, what do Matthew 28 and 2 Timothy 4 say about the matter? What’s the more important thing for a pastor to be doing, and where do they learn what’s important? Is it cleaning bathrooms and arranging chairs in the auditorium, or something else?

Is there really not enough time to make disciples, or are many pastors (and not just those in single pastor churches) ignoring their calling?

Bert, you’ll get no argument from me on this. However, many churches expect their pastor (and his wife) to do all these things. I was a member of a church where the pastor was explicitly told (by the elder board) that he should not focus on training men for ministry. Further, the elders didn’t want these men learning to preach at our church on a Sunday or Wednesday night because, “that’s what we’re paying you to do.” The elders told the pastor that if these men wanted to learn how to preach and how to do pastoral ministry, they should go to Bible college.

So, Bert, not all churches allow the pastor the freedom and time to do these things.

No argument that not all churches allow pastors to, well, pastor. But that noted, I’ve personally been blessed by pastors who stood up and said “if you want someone to babysit and do this, that, and the other, you can look for a new pastor.” Given the time, hassle, and expense of doing so, they were pretty effective in persuading leadership to allow them to actually make disciples. It also helps, of course, that there are a BUNCH of passages in the NT that more or less say “this is your job.”

I know it’s hard for a young guy with student loans and meager income to do it, but if one really wants to serve Christ, it’s a confrontation many need to have. “do you want me cleaning the bathrooms and mowing the lawn, or do you want your brothers and sisters in this congregation to grow in Christ? You can really only choose one.”

And regarding Don’s question of whether I think I’d have grown more in a Bible college, my answer is an emphatic “maybe” leaning into “no”. A lot of my biggest growth in Christ is specifically when I get challenged by unbelievers—living in Boulder and East Lansing was WONDERFUL for that—and that dynamic is simply not there to the same degree in Bible colleges. To borrow a theme I used before, yes, the monasteries did preserve the Scriptures and western literature, for which I am grateful, but they also introduced some pretty nasty heresies. We need to be careful exactly how much we’re isolated from the world.

[Don Johnson]

I’m not advocating Christian education as some sort of cure-all. We know lots of failures that have come from Christian schools, including men and women who went to school with me. All I am saying is that, all things being equal, I think a Christian young person will do better at a Christian school and worldview is one of those areas where they will be greatly helped.

Don, on the surface this sounds good, but I am not sure there is any data that really backs this up. I am not sure if you attended a secular college at some point, but I think those of us who have been to both are clearly stating that this is not the case. I fully appreciated my time and my degree at Bob Jones, but I cannot say that it greatly helped by worldview. And it is primarily rooted in the fact that I was being taught a worldview (which I felt I already had a pretty good grasp on) in a scenario where everyone shared the same worldview. What I found in a secular college setting was that I was more engaged with competing worldviews and it really helped buttress my thought process and my beliefs. While I was taught what were competing worldviews at BJ, they were on an academic nature and not a practical nature. I never felt my faith waiver as an 18 year old in a secular college. My faith was my faith.

Don, what I have found over the course of my life is that worldview has been strengthened during those times in which I am most confronted by secular society. In fact, the changing culture that we have all faced over the last few years has really strengthened by worldview and in addition it has given me awesome opportunities to share with my children and worked with them as we all face it together.

Sometimes being in a place where your worldview is challenged and having to defend it is a good thing. After all, that’s what’s going to happen when you finally get out in the real world. And yes, I think and 18 year old is capable.

A few months after I became a Christian I enrolled in a secular university to finish my undergrad degree. I found myself in classes where my beliefs were questioned, challenged, and even opposed. One class (The Sociology and Psychology of Death) was especially interesting. Add to that Anthropology (evolution), and The Bible as Literature taught by an atheist, and you can imagine the dialog. The confrontations cost me a letter grade in one class, but also led me to other Christians who became my friends.

[dgszweda]

Don, on the surface this sounds good, but I am not sure there is any data that really backs this up. I am not sure if you attended a secular college at some point, but I think those of us who have been to both are clearly stating that this is not the case. I fully appreciated my time and my degree at Bob Jones, but I cannot say that it greatly helped by worldview. And it is primarily rooted in the fact that I was being taught a worldview (which I felt I already had a pretty good grasp on) in a scenario where everyone shared the same worldview. What I found in a secular college setting was that I was more engaged with competing worldviews and it really helped buttress my thought process and my beliefs.

ok, let’s use you as the illustration now. You went to BJU first, then secular school?

if yes, are you saying that 18 yr old you would have been better off to go to secular school first?

Don, I appreciate you [even though you are Canadian ;)]. And I appreciate your article and opinon. I also appreciate your alma mater, BJU.

So my brief comments (and keying off ” BJU first, then secular school”)

Parents and students have these constraints / factors:

• Time
• Opportunity
• Circumstance
• Resources (thinking about finances!)

Is Christian college a good idea? Yes! For some. For everyone? No!

About finances: Sadly going away to be a resident at a private college is a major financial investment. I stayed home and went to a public school. I graduated debt free. How did I do it:

• Worked, worked worked: a Monsanto chemical plant every summer. Selling shoes. Warehouse work, et cetera.

2 of my 3 kids graduated debt free: How (different for each):

• Both: work work work … save save save
• One USMC, GI bill, MN National guard, Wells Fargo job and a small scholarship
• Another: 4th year of HS as her 1st year of college (paid for by the state) and working through college as a barista
  

18 year olds have no concept of the responsibilities of debt. I know a couple who are unable to retire because of their kids taking on debts.

“Americans have more than $1.2tn in student loans – at least, they think they do.

Many college freshmen, at least, are not actually aware how they are paying their tuition – an indication of a larger trend of students taking on debt blindly, unaware how much they are actually borrowing.”

https://www.theguardian.com/money/us-money-blog/2014/dec/15/us-college-…

1. Having been reared by a godly, consistent family who was devoted to the church and the Word, my worldview was formed before I went to Bible College. Bible College helped form positions and opened me to thinking through various situations. I may be different than some. But the effect of Bible college was neutral as it related to my spiritual development and worldview formation. Bible College helped give me tools to study the Word of God and think through theology. Even my more specific theological positions were formed after Bible college working practically in local church ministry. Thus, my opinion, go to Bible college to prepare for ministry (though that isn’t even necessary), but other pursuits will probably mean other education options.

2. Having four children, I am devoted to helping them form a Biblical worldview before they are 18. I disagree that 18-23 year olds are the most formative years of a young person’s life. If we as parents and the church do our job well, those years are years of confirmation of what has already been taught. It isn’t too late, but it is quite late to begin talking about worldview by then. If I are still viewing my 19 year old son as a kid and worried about what worldview he might develop when he leaves home to the point that I don’t think he can handle a secular world, then I wonder what I have been doing for the past 19 years. Not that there is no anxiety about secular universities. At any age we can be led astray, but I hope I will have some confidence that by God’s grace, I have instilled in all my children a love for God’s Word, logic, ethics, and critical thinking skills to be able to attack the gates of hell even at 19. If the whole Bible college thing is partly about influence, then why not encourage young adults to stay at home with the parents helpful guidance and their local church and attend a local community college. Could not parents and church still have a greater influence than the dorms of Bible college?

3. Cost. When I went to Bible college, it was no more expensive than the secular universities around me. I have four children. They can go to the local community college for a fraction of a fraction of what it costs to go to Bible college. They can go to the in state university for much less than out of state private Bible college. Once again, things are different pursuing pastoral ministry. Some might respond that I am being too pragmatic and isn’t the safety, security, education worth the money? Can yo put a price on the godly influence of Bible college? Someone has and it is quite high. I have been involved in Christian school education and I do not for a second think that they are overpriced, it just costs a lot to educate. However, speaking of morality. Which is the moral high ground? Going off to Bible college and racking up thousands in debt. Going to a local community college and being debt free.

[Don Johnson]

ok, let’s use you as the illustration now. You went to BJU first, then secular school?

if yes, are you saying that 18 yr old you would have been better off to go to secular school first?

I graduated from a public high school. The summer between high school and my first year at BJU, I took a class at UW-Kenosha. I then started my four year bachelor degree at BJU. Every summer I went to a secular college (Clemson, College of Charleston and Marquette University). After my bachelor degree on received an MBA from Jacksonville University (a secular college). I only made the decision to go to BJU at the last minute (never having visited it), I had a full ride at University of Iowa.

Would I have been better off? I don’t know. I met my wife at BJ, so that must count for something :) I am glad I went, but I am not sure my worldview was any better or worse off. I know that my worldview was more sharpened at the age of 18 at UW-Kenosha, Clemson, Marquette…. I would say that the challenge I did have at BJ, was that the worldview was distorted sometimes in a negative way. For example, (and not to bring up old history), but races were viewed as different, man was not responsible for global warming, views on abuse…. at BJU we were taught that these were Christian worldview. Now in my mind, I chose to ignore these thoughts and teachings around their worldview and discounted them as “old thinking”, distorted views…. at the secular colleges, I was not taught these were right, I knew already going in, that these were coming from a secular view. So instead of having to discern different Christian worldviews that I thought were wrong, I knew that in the secular college they were all wrong (in terms of viewpoint).

I enjoyed BJU, I don’t regret going there, but I don’t think it had an impact on my worldview.

[dgszweda]

Would I have been better off? I don’t know. I met my wife at BJ, so that must count for something :) I am glad I went, but I am not sure my worldview was any better or worse off. I know that my worldview was more sharpened at the age of 18 at UW-Kenosha, Clemson, Marquette….

I enjoyed BJU, I don’t regret going there, but I don’t think it had an impact on my worldview.

Well, it’s always hard to play “What if?” and I would have to say that I had a fairly well-established Christian worldview by the time I went to BJU, but I think that I was sharpened and strengthened there in ways that I could never have been anywhere else (other than another Christian college of some kind). I, too, was educated in public schools. There were challenges to face there, some I managed to stand up to, but no doubt there were failures as well. Given what I know of myself, I am very appreciative of BJU and the philosophy they had at the time of educating the whole man. I am not sure that they are as good at this as they once were. Nevertheless, all my children (5) are graduates (8 degrees between them) and I am thankful for the impact BJU had on their lives. They went better equipped than I did, but they still needed it, in my opinion.

A lot of the discussion in this thread and the previous one has been taking shots at the local churches for not discipling well enough, etc. I don’t buy that. There are so many factors that influence young people and I think it is important for them to have a disciplined Christian environment that involves the leadership of others besides their parents. Most kids (note the word most) are not ready for the world immediately out of high school, I think it is far better for them to attend a Christian college first before they attend secular institutions.

However, we can keep going on and on about this, but we are just repeating our opinions over and over, so I’ll not bother.

The subject of finances, student debt, etc, has also come up. I think that is an important topic also and will plan to publish an article on that one soon.

[Ron Bean]

Sometimes being in a place where your worldview is challenged and having to defend it is a good thing. After all, that’s what’s going to happen when you finally get out in the real world. And yes, I think and 18 year old is capable….

And what particular scriptures drove this genius insight? Was it Rom. 16:19? Perhaps II Cor. 6:14 FF? I Tim. 6:4-6? Other? I mean, if you’re advocating that spending gobs of money to be lied to consistently on a daily basis under the name of higher education by those who (predominantly) hate the truth and hate the Savior is “a good thing” I would suppose you’d have a plethora of Scripture practically demanding that this be so.

[Lee] if you’re advocating that spending gobs of money to be lied to consistently on a daily basis under the name of higher education by those who (predominantly) hate the truth and hate the Savior is “a good thing”

Some of this discussion, as represented in the above quote, pertains to how we view lost people and our place in this world.

It is well known that I graduated from the University of Cincinnati (double major in economics and finance):

So who there “lied consistently [to me] on a daily basis”?

• Well I took college biology so I received the obligatory evolutionary view, which I rejected. I actually learned a lot and managed a “B”
• English lit? Had to read “Sinners in the hands of an angry God”
• History? Had to read Bainton’s Here I Stand

God has not called us to isolation