Congregational Singing Is Cool Again

[TylerR]

They can do better than this. If they couldn’t do better, then I wouldn’t be upset when I see things like this.

Regarding the “one thing” comment, I stand by that. Some fundamentalist leaders are good expositors, but not many. Others are good pastors. Others are great teachers. But, the one universal thing fundamentalists have generally all been good at is hating other people. Have you been reading Bauder’s mini-series on the CBA, NTAIBC and the FBFI? Let me sum it up for you - they all hated each other. That series is the most depressing stuff I’ve read in a long time. That is our heritage. Pardon me while I retch.

Tyler, you can do better than this.

First, you are entirely wrong to say the summary of Bauder’s series is “they all hated each other.” While some of the actions in the CBA seemed quite underhanded, the resulting groups pulling out of that fellowship were not in agreement about how to proceed. The men involved had decisions to make that took them in different directions at the time. To say they hated each other is really reading too much into it.

Further your comment: “Pardon me while I retch.” This is the kind of dramatic hyperbole I object to when you take this tangent. How is it helpful? How does it advance the argument? How is it any different from the tactics of “haters past” which you say you object to?

There are five blog articles on the front page of Proclaim and Defend right now and this is the only article that mentions an evangelical (unless you count normal academic type footnotes). So, they are hardly a one-string banjo — they have articles on all sorts of things. Maybe its just that SI highlights these types of articles.

And, two, Phelps doesn’t say that Dever or Piper or the Gettys are bad. He doesn’t. He’s dealing with a very narrow topic and saying that they are “overemphasizing” something. Why should it be controversial to suggest we need discernment when listening to the counsel of Dever and Piper? Are those guys infallible? Plus, in the context of the article, he’s just talking about discernment in regard to what Phelps sees as an overemphasis.

I don’t see any bitterness or grumpiness in this article. I like Mark Dever. I’ve been to his church and I appreciated the service. It was very conservative. I posted about it on Facebook. It was great but I agree that he has an overemphasis here and that he has influence in this area. It’s legitimate for Phelps to point this out.

Fair enough. There is a divide here that will likely only be breached when the FBFI dies. It makes me sad to read Bauder’s series. There is nothing there to be proud of. It’s a history of backstabbing, divisiveness and pettiness. I’d be one of the men who had nothing to do with either organization. I become upset when I see this kind of animosity perpetuated.

That’s where I am now. Many younger men feel the same. That’s why the FBFI will die.

I understand other people still like the FBFI and the brand of Baptist fundamentalism it represents. I wish Greg Linscott and the other guys all the best as they desperately try to right a sinking ship. I don’t think it will work. I’m also not entirely sure it should work.

I’m done with fundamentalism as an identifiable movement. It’s better framed as a philosophy of ministry. Ciao, fellas. Life is too short for this.

Of course Bethlehem and CHBC have not omitted choirs and special music all together. They are just not essential parts of every service. Good grief, he’s talking with Keith Getty who is a performer who has concerts! This implication was just fiction that seemed to be added to the narrative to make those inside the FBFI “Village” more fearful of those outside.

While I have no objection to special music and choirs, my personal preference is to sing rather than to be sung to.

And remember P and D is the voice of the FBFI. Chuck’s article didn’t get here without being approved.

BTW, I’m old enough to be familiar with the battles Bauder writes about. “Hating” each other may, and I say may, be hyperbole. The fact is that they and their followers didn’t like each other, refused to work together, separated from each other, and often spoke disparagingly of each other in private. You can label that what you will.

that “special numbers … should therefore be viewed as an integral part of the worship service.”

Integral means necessary to complete the whole. Is Phelps claiming that without special music (choirs, solos, men’s quartets, etc) the worship service is incomplete? Because that’s what he wrote.

As someone who is on staff at a IX Marks church in the DC area that was planted by CHBC, I’m well-versed in the regulative principle and IX Mark’s interpretation and application of it. And Phelps statement in his final paragraph is a pendulum swing that Dever and others are attempting to correct - the belief that special music is necessary/required for the worship service. I can’t tell you the number of times that people have written my church off as unbiblical because we don’t have special music.

I don’t believe (and neither does Dever) that special music during a worship service is necessarily sinful. Nor do I (or Dever) condemn or separate from churches and pastors who have special music as a part of their worship service. That being said, when Phelps writes that, “things like choirs, ensembles, quartets, and solos can get broken,” my response is, “I don’t care.” If the price for reclaiming congregational singing (something commanded by Scriptures) is the loss of special music (something not commanded by Scripture), so be it. Except, we don’t live in the world of false dichotomies; special music is not going to be “broken” in the churches that want it. Many pastors and churches are going to listen to Dever’s interview with the Getty’s, ignore Dever’s beliefs about special music, and take away from it what they find helpful.

Delete that final paragraph, and Phelp’s article is a gracious and edifying argument for the place of special music in the church. And an article that will sadly now be dismissed by some because of the wording in that final paragraph.

“It’s good that the Reformers are trying to get back to the early church by bringing back the simplicity of worship, eliminating icons, worship of the saints, etc. But you have to watch for those pendulum swings… Things like nice decorations, honoring and respecting our martyrs and elders, and so on, can get broken.” ;)

Being one of the most “uncool” people I know, do I have to stop singing at church now that it’s cool? :^)

(never mind, I didn’t stop wearing flannel just because it was cool, either)

Seriously, there is, sad to say, some implicit sniping on Phelps’ part here, and I also read Bauder’s commentary on NTA/FBFI in a similar way to how Tyler did, and I started quoting Rodney King “can’t we all just get along?” to myself when I read them. We fundamentalists do indeed have trouble with this concept, sad to say. When Phelps refers to a worship team being “cacaphonious”, he’s participating in this sad tradition. For those who would defend this, simply ask yourself what would be the purpose of this column if not to snipe. Not too many people in the “modern music” side of that debate would tell a congregation not to sing along, after all.

I also had the thought, when I read Phelps’ comment about appropriate attire and music for the NT church being arguable from the OT prescriptions for life in the Temple, Psalms 149 and 150 came to mind with prescriptions for percussive instruments and dancing. I’m a “feet nailed to the floor” man myself, but somehow I’m persuaded that this is a flaw on my part that I’d do well to repent of; God’s love ought to connect itself somehow with our feet.

…is how anyone can take Chuck Phelps seriously after he church disciplined a young woman and lied about it to his own congregation.

Isn’t there something in 1 Timothy 3 about being ‘blameless’ and ‘above reproach’? Even if I did agree with Phelps that Tina engaged in illicit sex and was not raped, he still lied about the situation to his entire congregation by insisting that TIna and Willis’ situations were not related when he presented it for church discipline.

That’s not something that I can just blow off.

I’ve never heard anyone say that not having special music in your service is unbiblical until now. I didn’t know it was a thing.

Besides, I think pastors like to have choirs so that at least he has someone attending Sunday night services…

John Eliis’ post was great!

I don’t think anyone said that special music was unbiblical, as in prohibited by Scripture. It’s just not a Scriptural mandate nor is is integral and necessary to complete worship which is what was said in the article. What is mandated by Scripture is congregational singing which has always been the case under Dever’s leadership at CHBC.

I wonder how many pastors who have special music would dare to confront the choir director over music that was over orchestrated or unintelligible or the soloist who can longer carry a tune or hit the F# in His Eye on the Sparrow but still sings it a couple of times a year.

I seem to recall someone saying that, in church history, the church has been “sung to” during its lowest spiritual condition but has “sung” when it’s been revived.

Has anyone seen an issue with churches ditching special music as “unbiblical?” Is this a “thing?” I suppose in some more austere, Reformed church you might have something like this, but I haven’t seen it be an issue, myself.

I don’t think so.
I mean, churches that hold to a particularly strict interpretation of the RPW, such as my current and former churches, (both OPC), typically don’t have choirs or special music. But then they never did. I’ve never heard an actual example of a church that once allowed special music eliminating it.

I don’t know of any churches that are ditching special music. (A project that I wouldn’t dare undertake in a church that already had it.) What I’m seeing is that a lot of the newly planted churches (those pesky convergents) don’t have it and don’t see it as an integral part of worship. The church plant we were a part of in Virginia has never had it other than an occasional solo at Christmas. CHBC has never had it since Dever became pastor as far as I know. The church we’re joining now is 12 years old and doesn’t have it either. BTW, all three churches I’ve mentioned here have always stressed congregational singing.

Our church used to have special music, but discontinued it several years ago because the people who wanted to perform the specials weren’t willing to sing with the regular worship team. They only wanted to sing in front of the congregation when they were given the spotlight. So, no more special music.