"Church survival doesn't depend on music style."

“What is the Biblical imperative that indicates that music of any style is a tool of importance/choice for evangelism in ours or any culture?”

Lee, great question, and my personal view is that you will not find any Biblical admonition to use any particular genre, but one passage that comes to mind is 1 Cor. 9:20, where Paul notes that he becomes like those he is trying to reach. Now that would have limits—I’m pretty sure that our brother in Grand Rapids has not actually joined a gang to minister to former gang members, for example—but he has gotten up to speed on some Christian rap, Another example is that I personally insist on my kids trying a variety of ethnic foods to get them used to eating something that isn’t their usual diet. Hey, you want to reach people, it’s best not to irritate them by turning up your nose at curry, haggis, or whatever.

But I must confess that I struggle applying that implication of 1 Cor. 9:20 when I’m around people that like light rock or easy listening. Thankfully, in the circles I inhabit, I don’t hear too much of it outside of some churches trying to be relevant.

[Greg Long]

(Bert it was the title of my Ed.D. thesis. Perry Scheme refers to William Perry of Harvard U. Sorry for the confusion, I was just trying to think of one possible area in which I might out - credential everyone else. )

As opposed to William Perry of Clemson and the Chicago Bears, of course. :^) I am enjoying the confusion, especially since some of my earlier comments on some of the travails of Bible colleges might give rise to the idea that I also had such a model. And of course I just learned a bit about your reference as well.

[Larry Nelson]

Craig wrote:

…. so …. music is the ingredient for growing churches …. and not preaching

It’s both…..and more.

Historically, I can think of many churches and/or evangelists known for their evangelistic prowess that recognized that music is a powerful, allied evangelistic tool. Think of D. L. Moody, and the great song leader Ira D. Sankey immediately comes to mind. Billy Sunday had Homer Rodeheaver. Bob Jones Sr. utilized music greatly in his early evangelism. Billy Graham (whatever your opinion is of him) had Cliff Barrows and George Beverly Shea. Spurgeon famously deplored much of the contemporary hymnody of his day (which ironically is what we today so often idolize), yet he didn’t seek to oust it from the Met Tab–he recognized its evangelistic value.

what are the Biblical instructions to the church for music? …

[Larry Nelson]

Lee wrote:

Not sure this is the right venue, but I’ll ask it anyway. Since church “survival”, which evidently is synonymous with numerical growth, is the subject, and one would assume that that growth is primarily through evangelistic endeavors into society, there is a question that is begging.

What is the Biblical imperative that indicates that music of any style is a tool of importance/choice for evangelism in ours or any culture?

Singing praises to God can be a witness to unbelievers:

“1 Oh give thanks to the Lord; call upon his name;
make known his deeds among the peoples!
2 Sing to him, sing praises to him;
tell of all his wondrous works!
3 Glory in his holy name;
let the hearts of those who seek the Lord rejoice!” (Psalm 105:1-3 ESV)

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Paul and Silas sang in prison, and it served as a witness to unbelievers:

”25 About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them, 26 and suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken. And immediately all the doors were opened, and everyone’s bonds were unfastened. 27 When the jailer woke and saw that the prison doors were open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. 28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here.” 29 And the jailer called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas. 30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family. 34 Then he brought them up into his house and set food before them. And he rejoiced along with his entire household that he had believed in God.” (Acts 16:25-34 ESV)

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Just for a start……

… not saying there is not application here, but neither of these circumstances are in the context of a local church meeting of the body of Christ …

[RickyHorton]

Lee wrote:

Not sure this is the right venue, but I’ll ask it anyway. Since church “survival”, which evidently is synonymous with numerical growth, is the subject, and one would assume that that growth is primarily through evangelistic endeavors into society, there is a question that is begging.

What is the Biblical imperative that indicates that music of any style is a tool of importance/choice for evangelism in ours or any culture?

I had given I Cor. 14:15 earlier as an indication that we should have those outside the church in mind when we sing. This passage says that we should sing with understanding. The context of the passage was addressing speaking in tongues and those outside the church coming in and not understanding what they were saying. Then he used music as an illustration to say what we do in the church setting should be understandable to those without the church. That doesn’t necessarily state that is for evangelizing, but we certainly should be aware of their presence when we sing and do so in a manner in which they can understand.

.. the primary context of 1 Corinthians 14 is tongues versus prophecy so I’d be hesitant about building too much doctrinal teaching concerning singing with this passage except to say the song must be understandable… since Paul was the apostle to the gentiles and was given the most revelation concerning the church, my thought would be what does Paul’s epistles, especially the “pastoral” epistles of 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus, say about music specifically instructions to the church …

Was the William Perry from Harvard you mentioned the same man who was Bill Clinton’s last Secretary of Defense?

[TylerR]

Was the William Perry from Harvard you mentioned the same man who was Bill Clinton’s last Secretary of Defense?

[Bert Perry]

“What is the Biblical imperative that indicates that music of any style is a tool of importance/choice for evangelism in ours or any culture?”

Lee, great question, and my personal view is that you will not find any Biblical admonition to use any particular genre, but one passage that comes to mind is 1 Cor. 9:20, where Paul notes that he becomes like those he is trying to reach….

Emphasis mine.

I think you are absolutely correct that you will not find “any Biblical admonition to use any particular genre.” I further submit that you will not find any NT admonition, principle, or precedent that supports music of any genre as fundamental (even incidental) to any evangelistic endeavor. It’s just not there. It is so not there that I find it ludicrous to even consider that the survival of the church (translate numerical growth through evangelism ) may be dependent on whether you utilize a “traditional” or “contemporary” style. OTOH, Rev. 2-3 gives a pretty convincing list of those things that would threaten the survival of any local assembly, and trendy music is not one of them.

[Craig]

.. the primary context of 1 Corinthians 14 is tongues versus prophecy so I’d be hesitant about building too much doctrinal teaching concerning singing with this passage except to say the song must be understandable…

But the apostle Paul under inspiration of the Holy Spirit brought in music as an illustration so you can’t throw it out. You agree with me that the song must be understandable. Doesn’t that mean you have to consider those that will hear it in order to be sure they understand it???

[Craig]

Larry Nelson wrote:

Craig wrote:

…. so …. music is the ingredient for growing churches …. and not preaching

It’s both…..and more.

Historically, I can think of many churches and/or evangelists known for their evangelistic prowess that recognized that music is a powerful, allied evangelistic tool. Think of D. L. Moody, and the great song leader Ira D. Sankey immediately comes to mind. Billy Sunday had Homer Rodeheaver. Bob Jones Sr. utilized music greatly in his early evangelism. Billy Graham (whatever your opinion is of him) had Cliff Barrows and George Beverly Shea. Spurgeon famously deplored much of the contemporary hymnody of his day (which ironically is what we today so often idolize), yet he didn’t seek to oust it from the Met Tab–he recognized its evangelistic value.

what are the Biblical instructions to the church for music? …

…..it’s a broad enough question that I could write volumes, and yet probably still not address what you’re looking for.

[Craig]

… not saying there is not application here, but neither of these circumstances are in the context of a local church meeting of the body of Christ …

…..but if so, I think it misses the broader point. You’re looking for a biblical commandment to use music–in church–for evangelistic purposes. I don’t think I can point to precisely that in the Bible; merely the examples through inference and implication that I’ve already mentioned.

I think the broader point is this though: is there any place where evangelism should not be permissible? If you think that evangelistic intent is out of bounds within the walls of a church because the Bible apparently doesn’t explicitly command such (at least to your satisfaction), well, I reject that. Such a notion is utterly incongruous with the earthly mission of the church. Furthermore, church history has a long, proven track record of effectively rejecting such a notion.

Such a disputable notion focuses on the relatively trivial, at the expense of the vital. It requires disregarding actual Biblical commandments, or at least a misguided prioritization of them (see Matthew 23:23 ESV).

I don’t know the situation at your church, but we’re of a size at which we have unsaved guests and visitors at every service. Are we to ignore their presence and the opportunity to lead them to Christ? That isn’t to say that our main purpose as a gathered body of believers is to reach the lost in our midst. No, our main purpose in gathering as a local church is to worship God and to edify the believers present (and that’s clearly a N.T. teaching).

We can’t (and won’t) disregard the fact that God leads unbelievers through our doors though. Here’s a principle: If we did, God would no longer lead so many of them our way (a principle for which there is ample Biblical precedent).

I have a non-Christian friend at work who loves music including hip-hop. He had no idea what “O Sacred Head Now Wounded” (one of my favorites) was about but after one listen to Shai Linne, could discuss justification and how it differs from sanctification.

[Lee]

Bert Perry wrote:

“What is the Biblical imperative that indicates that music of any style is a tool of importance/choice for evangelism in ours or any culture?”

Lee, great question, and my personal view is that you will not find any Biblical admonition to use any particular genre, but one passage that comes to mind is 1 Cor. 9:20, where Paul notes that he becomes like those he is trying to reach….

Emphasis mine.

I think you are absolutely correct that you will not find “any Biblical admonition to use any particular genre.” I further submit that you will not find any NT admonition, principle, or precedent that supports music of any genre as fundamental (even incidental) to any evangelistic endeavor. It’s just not there. It is so not there that I find it ludicrous to even consider that the survival of the church (translate numerical growth through evangelism ) may be dependent on whether you utilize a “traditional” or “contemporary” style. OTOH, Rev. 2-3 gives a pretty convincing list of those things that would threaten the survival of any local assembly, and trendy music is not one of them.

I would agree there’s no “need” to be “trendy”, but in light of the fact that languages and cultures differ, would we not have (per the comment above about Shai Linne explaining justification vs. sanctification well) something of an imperative to speak and sing in a way that is understood by the recipient? For example, if I go into South Central LA with a twangy country sound, what I’m going to get as a response is akin to “my granddaddy left Alabama to get away from people who used that music—and wore their bedsheets to parties”.

There are boundaries, to be sure—no fly girls if I were to rap in Compton for me—but I’d try to speak the language. Writing as a guy who spent the summer of 1989 in Europe, I witnessed firsthand how helpful it is to speak just a little bit of the local language. We ought to try to do the same in music.

Greg, I had the thought this morning that your thesis, were it to get some traction in Bible colleges, might be very helpful in helping them understand what they’re doing and how they might do things better. Any such luck?

[Larry Nelson]

Craig wrote:

… not saying there is not application here, but neither of these circumstances are in the context of a local church meeting of the body of Christ …

…..but if so, I think it misses the broader point. You’re looking for a biblical commandment to use music–in church–for evangelistic purposes. I don’t think I can point to precisely that in the Bible; merely the examples through inference and implication that I’ve already mentioned.

I think the broader point is this though: is there any place where evangelism should not be permissible? If you think that evangelistic intent is out of bounds within the walls of a church because the Bible apparently doesn’t explicitly command such (at least to your satisfaction), well, I reject that. Such a notion is utterly incongruous with the earthly mission of the church. Furthermore, church history has a long, proven track record of effectively rejecting such a notion.

Such a disputable notion focuses on the relatively trivial, at the expense of the vital. It requires disregarding actual Biblical commandments, or at least a misguided prioritization of them (see Matthew 23:23 ESV).

I don’t know the situation at your church, but we’re of a size at which we have unsaved guests and visitors at every service. Are we to ignore their presence and the opportunity to lead them to Christ? That isn’t to say that our main purpose as a gathered body of believers is to reach the lost in our midst. No, our main purpose in gathering as a local church is to worship God and to edify the believers present (and that’s clearly a N.T. teaching).

We can’t (and won’t) disregard the fact that God leads unbelievers through our doors though. Here’s a principle: If we did, God would no longer lead so many of them our way (a principle for which there is ample Biblical precedent).

The earlier posts give the perception that churches with the greater numbers use contemporary music thus setting off a debate about music and music styles. I’m asking for Biblical instructions to the church concerning music. Paul speaks about singing, but it certainly doesn’t dominate his epistles like music seems to in the American church. Again read through his epistles and note his instructions concerning music versus his instructions concerning preaching and praying.

“For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.” (1 Corinthians 1:21)