Dave Ramsey Responds to Flak About His New Multi-Million Dollar Home

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Larry's picture

Moderator

Whats the difference between Dave Ramsey, Joel Osteen, and Mark Driscoll? 

There's a huge difference in how they got their money. Ramsey made his money through legitimate business propositions. Osteen and Driscoll made their money by leveraging their church position. Ramsey, whether his advice is good or bad (and it is some of both, IMO), offered a legitimate service that people were willing to pay for. He does not claim to be a pastor; he does not pastor a church. 

Larry Nelson's picture

 

Mark_Smith wrote:

[What's the difference] between Dave Ramsey, Joel Osteen, and Mark Driscoll?

They all make a lot of money off of the flock.

So, the only difference must be that you agree with Ramsey, and don't agree with Osteen and Driscoll.

 

"...Pastor Rick Warren; a man who, in a world seemingly consumed by greed and material possessions, practices what he preaches in defiance of the temptation to feather his own nest; relying instead on Scripture and time-tested money-management principles to guide his personal and financial life.  “I drive a 12 year old Ford, have lived in the same house for the last 22 years, bought my watch at Wal-Mart, and I don’t own a boat or a jet,” says Warren.

In fact, following the success of his book, A Purpose Driven Life, he stopped taking a salary from his church and even gave back the salary he earned during his first 25 years with Saddleback.  “I’ve been a volunteer Pastor for the last 10 years now,” said Warren.  “I’m not a professional Pastor, I’m an amateur.”

As shocking as this set of choices and values might be to people who envy wealth and influence, Pastor Rick makes his purpose evident.  “I gave it all back because I didn’t want anyone to think that I do what I do because of money.  I love Jesus Christ,” he said.

“The Bible teaches that we are to love people and use money, but we often get that reversed and you start loving money and using people to get more money.  Money is simply a tool to be used for good.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlaura/2013/03/21/pastor-rick-warren-is-practicing-what-he-preaches-and-getting-ready-for-retirement/

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Larry Nelson's picture

 

7 Two things I ask of you;
    deny them not to me before I die:
8 Remove far from me falsehood and lying;
    give me neither poverty nor riches;
    feed me with the food that is needful for me,
lest I be full and deny you
    and say, “Who is the Lord?”
or lest I be poor and steal
    and profane the name of my God.

Proverbs 30:7-9 (ESV)

 

Susan R's picture

EditorModerator

Larry Nelson wrote:

7 Two things I ask of you;
    deny them not to me before I die:
8 Remove far from me falsehood and lying;
    give me neither poverty nor riches;
    feed me with the food that is needful for me,
lest I be full and deny you
    and say, “Who is the Lord?”
or lest I be poor and steal
    and profane the name of my God.

Proverbs 30:7-9 (ESV)

And the middle class shall inherit the earth.

Larry Nelson's picture

 

Susan R wrote:

And the middle class shall inherit the earth.

 

I know you're not saying that Proverbs 30:8-9 contradicts Matthew 5:5...

My take on the Proverbs passage is that potential peril lies at both ends of the economic spectrum, so the preferred state lies (somewhere) in between.

 

Susan R's picture

EditorModerator

Larry Nelson wrote:
Susan R wrote:

And the middle class shall inherit the earth.

I know you're not saying that Proverbs 30:8-9 contradicts Matthew 5:5...

My take on the Proverbs passage is that potential peril lies at both ends of the economic spectrum, so the preferred state lies (somewhere) in between.

Just injecting a little levity, Bro. Nelson. And it's not my fault that the middle class does lie somewhere in between. 

However, while I agree that there are dangers at both ends of the economic spectrum, avarice is not a respecter of persons. The real danger is discontent, no matter where you are. So I tend to view Mr. Ramsey's choice of home with how it relates to his net worth. He could probably 'afford' something much more elaborate - so why this house? He said he uses it to minister and raise funds for charity, and I don't have a compelling reason not to believe him. 

I once asked a neighbor what my obligation to others would be if I wrote The Great American Novel and made a million or so. He said I should just pay my bills and give the rest away to needy people. And maybe I would do that. But it would be wrong for others to try to force me to give up my money, whether using the police power of gov't, or shame, intimidation, and coercion. If Mr. Ramsey is doing something immoral, then it is best if his family, friends, and church rebuke and admonish him. 

Bert Perry's picture

Perhaps our gracious sister intended it as levity, but by golly it sometimes seems like many churches have an imperative that members will be between the 20th and 80th income percentiles, or at least live like it.  Trailer home is too small, but no more than 3500 square feet unless you have twelve kids or more, car can be between used car with a low amount of rust and a new Buick.  No Cadillacs or Lincolns allowed.  Definitely no carbon fiber bicycles.  :^)

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

josh p's picture

Bert, we need a cycling sub forum. If you ever get out to Washington hit me up so we can go for a ride.

Susan R's picture

EditorModerator

Bert Perry wrote:

Perhaps our gracious sister intended it as levity, but by golly it sometimes seems like many churches have an imperative that members will be between the 20th and 80th income percentiles, or at least live like it.  Trailer home is too small, but no more than 3500 square feet unless you have twelve kids or more, car can be between used car with a low amount of rust and a new Buick.  No Cadillacs or Lincolns allowed.  Definitely no carbon fiber bicycles.  :^) 

Sometimes I think it is as simple as sibling rivalry. We are brothers and sisters in Christ, our state equal in God's eyes - but He better not let anyone have more toys than us, 'cause that's not fair. Wink

Bert Perry's picture

josh p wrote:

Bert, we need a cycling sub forum. If you ever get out to Washington hit me up so we can go for a ride.

Just make sure you don't run me into the ground TOO badly.  :^)  And the same goes if you ever get to Rochester MN (and hopefully if you do come, it's not because you've got some things to get done at the Mayo!).

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

josh p's picture

Bert Perry wrote:

 

josh p wrote:

 

Bert, we need a cycling sub forum. If you ever get out to Washington hit me up so we can go for a ride.

 

 

Just make sure you don't run me into the ground TOO badly.  :^)  And the same goes if you ever get to Rochester MN (and hopefully if you do come, it's not because you've got some things to get done at the Mayo!).

If I tried to run you into the ground I would need to have some things done at the Mayo. Let's just say i'm not in prime cycling shape right now.

Shaynus's picture

dgszweda asked me why I think Dave Ramsey's legendarily bad habits as a boss has anything to do with the article. The simple answer is that the article is about Dave Ramsey's character, not just how he spends his money. I have no problem with rich Christians who use their wealth to further the kingdom. None. I do think it's legitimate to ask extreme wealth is created and sustained over time, especially if such a Christian is teaching others. After all not many should be teachers, and they will be held to a higher standard. 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/29/spies-cash-and-fear-ins...

G. N. Barkman's picture

Wealthy Christians, especially those in public ministry, have always been the target of much criticism.  Read biographies of great Christians of the past, and you will find God's most fruitful servants all over the economic map, from poverty to riches.  Charles Spurgeon lived in a mansion, had a huge salary, and employed several people to serve him and his family.  Was he being sinful?  John Wesley enjoyed a large salary, as did G. Campbell Morgan, Jonathan Edwards, etc., etc.  Anyone who reads the Bible knows that many of God's faithful servants were very rich.  Others were poor.  Was Job sinful for not getting rid of his huge wealth?  Or Abraham?  Or Joseph of Aramathea?

Should we pass judgment in such matters?  Our sovereign God determines how much of this world's goods He will grant to each person at any particular time in their life, and He will hold each accountable for the stewardship of their possessions.  Is Rick Warren to be commended or criticised for his wealth?  If a multimillionaire gives away 90%, he still has several hundred thousand to use for himself?  Must he give 98% to be considered godly?  Does God want everyone to live at exactly the same level?  The truth is, we rarely know the details of what others do with their money, and even if we did, are neither equipped nor authorized to know how they ought to handle it.  God alone knows the details, and only He knows the heart.  He could wipe out a fortune in a moment (think of Job), or bestow it in an instant.  (Job again)  I believe we should let God take care of such matters, and focus on being faithful servants with whatever He has entrusted to me.  Who made me a judge over another's servant?

G. N. Barkman

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