Dave Ramsey Responds to Flak About His New Multi-Million Dollar Home

[Mark_Smith]

You said:

“You have a right to question Dave Ramsey, but lets put things into perspective. The average individual in our church is overspending much more than someone like Dave Ramsey.”

Please reread and reconsider it because there is no way for you to know that. You have NO IDEA how much I or any other Christian spends on things, and you have NO IDEA what Dave Ramsey spends on anything!

Well I have an idea statistically. The average person, which I would assume many in our church represent, spend about 400% more than their net worth on their house. I would pretty much guarantee that almost everyone spends more in terms of their net worth or salary than does Dave Ramsey. I doubt there are many in our church or you included who owns a house in which the fair market value of the house is only 20% of their annual salary.

With that said, I don’t necessarily agree that he should build a home like this. I also agree that he is heavily focused on building wealth, passing money onto generations…. Which I don’t align with at all. We as Christians empower Dave Ramsey with his wealth, because so many people hand over their money to him. So I don’t defend his choices per se, just that we all need to be careful how we throw rocks. Just because someone in a church makes $100K like everyone else in their SS Class and they have a $350K house, just like everyone else in the church, doesn’t make it better. Sometimes we get stuck into the fact that “hey, we were modest, we didn’t buy anything more extravagant than those around us, therefore we are being pragmatic”. When someone comes into the church who buys a $500K house, we all start whispering, or we see another Christian who has a bigger house or spend more money, maybe even money that we think is extravagant and we start throwing rocks. If this was the case, how could we open a church in a city like Lake Forest, IL, whose average home price is over $1MM.

This little bit by Mark intrigued me:

The problem is I know a lot of people who work VERY HARD and have very little in American terms to show for it. I know a lot of people who make $10/hour. How are you going to save on that? Etc…

Actually, I know people in Asia who are doing exactly this. The trick is that you’ve got to eat a lot of rice and not much meat, live in a smaller apartment (one colleague earning $8/hour was in 1000sf), forgo cable/satellite TV, and keep your lust for clothes, entertainment, and the like in check. Here are some of the statistics. Dgszweda is right. We all have some work to do to rein in our covetousness, starting with me coveting my third big cup of coffee at work today. :^)

[Bert Perry]

But all in all, since Ramsey uses the Scriptures to teach what he believes God says about finances, we therefore ought to approach him as something of an adjunct pastor, and that does mean that yes, we may take a look at his habits and determine whether he has disqualifying attitudes like the love of money. Do it with grace, do it with honesty, but I think we should do it.

In my opinion, that is a bit of a stretch to say we should judge him on this because he is almost a pastor. Does that mean we need to go to church Sunday and critique whether our Sunday School teachers are living in too large of a house as well? And where does the idea come from that we should even take issue with a pastor that lives in a house larger than someone thinks he should be living in? There will always be someone that thinks the house is too large, so where do we draw the line…or should we even be drawing a line on this?? Are we thinking Biblically or emotionally?

[Bert Perry]

This little bit by Mark intrigued me:

The problem is I know a lot of people who work VERY HARD and have very little in American terms to show for it. I know a lot of people who make $10/hour. How are you going to save on that? Etc…

Actually, I know people in Asia who are doing exactly this. The trick is that you’ve got to eat a lot of rice and not much meat, live in a smaller apartment (one colleague earning $8/hour was in 1000sf), forgo cable/satellite TV, and keep your lust for clothes, entertainment, and the like in check. Here are some of the statistics. Dgszweda is right. We all have some work to do to rein in our covetousness, starting with me coveting my third big cup of coffee at work today. :^)

My dad’s favorite saying is that, “people spend money on what they want to spend money on”. My dad is retired and living solely off of a social security check. He is very frugal and is very happy and lives comfortably off of it. So much so that he is able to support his hobby of collecting coins and was able to purchase a Corvette. All while on social security. After hearing this saying from my dad all those years growing up and watching him now in retirement, I can say that yes, people can save money. Just as an example, he eats for $8/day with no problem. He walks down to the local Supermarket every morning and gets a free cup of coffee and then buys a bagel for $1.00. Some days he will walk down to the McDonalds and get himself a breakfast biscuit and senior coffee for $1. For lunch he will make himself a sandwich for around $3 or less. For dinner he picks up a frozen meal and will get a desert that expires the next day for about $4. He sees this as not scrimping and saving or living tightly. He just views paying a lot for a meal at a restaurant as a waste of money. He picks up new outfits all the time for $10-$12. He pays $8 for a brand new pair of jeans at Walmart and then tries not to spend more than $4 for a brand new shirt. He doesn’t need to have internet, when he can go down to the public library, sit in front of a brand new computer, have high speed internet and get all the help he needs for free. And it goes on and on.

Only Dave Ramsey does!

Why I bought a $100,000 house? Because it was the house we wanted that was not in a crack district, you didn’t hear gunshots twice a day. Why is it better than renting? My rent for a 3 bedroom apartment was $200 more per month than the mortgage + insurance + taxes on a 4 bedroom house.

Now, a $100,000 house is 2.5 times my annual salary. Is that OK? Is that extravagant?

A person lives in a 1000 square foot apartment and eats rice. Is that OK? Is that better?

All of this IS NOT THE POINT.

The point is Dave Ramsey “preaches” on the radio to people to get out of debt. He gives them ways and motivation to do so. FINE BY ME. The issue is when Dave acts like he is working hard (compare giving a seminar to digging out sanitation ditches, or working on a trash truck, or roofing houses in 100 degree heat, or changing bed pans at a hospital). Again. FINE WITH ME. Hey, I work hard too.

The thing is Dave wants to represent Christ in managing money, “preach” to people about it, then act like he is a mere businessman who can build a 14 bathroom house and no one thinks, “is that the best use of a millionaire’s money”? Then people defend him saying, “hey, he paid in cash”. I bet Joel Osteen did too…

If you read the article that was earlier linked to, the house is twice as big as his neighbor’s, the country singer Lee Ann Rimes. It is worth over $10,000,000 on the market. If you care, the house is said to have a full service bar with whiskey barrels built into the wall (I wonder how many Christian readers and listeners know about that!)

I am sorry, but a man who can build that house, say he is a representative of proper Christian living, doesn’t need my money any more, or my time on the radio.

**I have been reading Martin Luther lately. When indulgences came to Germany Luther was livid that the copper coins of the poor were being used to rebuild St Peter’s Basilica when the Pope had enough money to pay for it himself. I ask a similar question. Was Dave’s 10 million dollar house built with dollars from poor Christians living in trailer parks?

My advice? Stop supporting Dave Ramsey financially, he apparently has enough.

Ricky, take a look at James 3:1, Luther’s comments on the extravagance of the Popes in his time, and Mark’s most recent note regarding this. If teachers are judged more strictly by God, then they probably ought to be held accountable by their churches, too.

And along those lines, we ought to take seriously what happens when we have way more than we can ever enjoy. Abraham and Lot parted ways in part because their herdsmen were fighting over limited pasture—they had more animals than their land could support. Solomon’s kingdom was destroyed because he was not satisfied with the 666 (!?) talents of gold he received in tribute yearly, but levied heavy taxes and created huge inflation (“silver was not considered worth much in those days”). Paying for all those wives, cities, & horses wasn’t cheap.

We ought to consider the same thing with regards to our wealth. Judge solely by size of house? No, but a pattern of conspicuous consumption, and the moral compromises needed to sustain it, is a warning that someone might not teach about contentment very well.

By the way, quick note about Ramsey; I just did a Google search on “contentment” and “covetousness” with Ramsey, and he’s talking about this. So modify my earlier comments, and kudos to him for doing so.

[Mark_Smith]

**I have been reading Martin Luther lately. When indulgences came to Germany Luther was livid that the copper coins of the poor were being used to rebuild St Peter’s Basilica when the Pope had enough money to pay for it himself. I ask a similar question. Was Dave’s 10 million dollar house built with dollars from poor Christians living in trailer parks?

My advice? Stop supporting Dave Ramsey financially, he apparently has enough.

Probably built off the backs of poor people, and I agree we shouldn’t support him. First, I don’t believe he is defrauding anyone, but come on guys. Why does this surprise anyone. He essentially sells for $199, the concept that you shouldn’t take out debt and live within your means. Really! We need to spend $199 for this advice. Lots of people hand over money for this advice, and they struggle with him buying a big house.

I have no opinion of Dave Ramsey since I know almost nothing of his ministry but I do have to comment that there is nothing immoral about making money off of poor people. Wal-mart, K-mart, and a countless other amount of stores and services do so. They don’t have to buy it if they don’t want. It’s called free market for a reason.

You know, I keep thinking, “How much is too much?” Who is the arbiter in this debate? Would it be ok if Ramsey only spent 1 million on the house? Or half a million? What if he’s using his mansion as a half-way house ministry where local pastors can bring families in distress for short-term housing? Does that make it ok then? I will admit, I could not see myself being comfortable paying that much for a home for my family, but I am not sure I clearly claim from scripture that it is wrong for him to do so. I think I could make a strong argument for wiser use of the money, but clearly wrong - I just don’t see it.

I really don’t care what Dave Ramsey spends his money on. Not my business, nor my responsibility.

But why did he launch his snarky defense? Why is he so sensitive to criticism? Apparently there was a twitter thing going criticizing him over the house and he launched this highly defensive apologetic. Why did he feel the need to do that? In his piece, he comes across just as he does to me in his radio show and books, as a fairly arrogant person. I think that is what bugs people more than the house.

But in the end, it’s his money, he can spend it on whatever he wants.

Chip, good thoughts. My take is that wealth crosses over into “love of money” or “love of prestige” when the owner starts sinning to keep the resources he needs to support his assets, or stops serving Christ because he’s spending so much time maintaining those assets. (which I guess is a sin as well)

I would suggest the “more than you can enjoy” as something of a gut check in this regard. Not “more than you need”, but “more than you can enjoy.” Jesus didn’t need a garment woven in one piece, but He had it. I would bet He may have enjoyed the fact that he didn’t get rubbing from seams in that cloth. On the flip side, He didn’t have 100 of them, but one. 100 would not have given Him any more comfort, though, so He apparently had one. 100 would also have relegated the Disciples to being an entourage instead of a ministry team.

I use this analysis when thinking about my “dream $10000 carbon fiber bicycle”, for what it’s worth. For a mere ten grand, I could take ten pounds off the weight of my bicycle and have a ride that is as comfortable as….the steel frame bicycle I already have. Of course, for free, I could take far more than ten pounds off the weight of my bicycle if only I rode it more, and if my bicycle were worth twice what my truck is worth, I’d worry a lot more about it. So the 1977 LeTour III stays.

Same logic with Ramsey’s house, I’d think. Is it important to his business and ministry, or is it just for showin’ off? Whatever the real number of bathrooms—OK, I made that 14 number up from other big house listings, don’t quote it as if it were fact please—that’s the question. Though I must admit that the opulence of his bar indicates that at least that portion of his house isn’t for entertaining the “fundagelicals” who made him rich. At least his guests won’t admit it.

(like the old joke: Protestants don’t recognize the Pope, Catholics don’t recognize Sola Scriptura, and Baptists don’t recognize each other in the liquor store)

Fourteen bathrooms. Someone has to clean them. It’s like a SAHM’s worst nightmare. :)

My take in a nutshell- how is he going to use (or enjoy, as Bro. Perry said) the house? He says he uses it as a tool to minister, and I have no problem with that.

Although Mr. Ramsey’s answer is abrasive and sarcastic, I enjoyed reading it. I don’t have 2.2 billion sitting around, but I feel the same way when someone I don’t know and who doesn’t know me tries to tell me how to live my life, because it never seems to come from a place of genuine concern. It’s usually an attempt at manipulation or self-aggrandizement or just inappropriate venting. I used to respond in a similar vein, but now I tend to just disengage. Some people are tar-babies, and if you touch them, you will be stuck for hours.

between Dave Ramsey, Joel Osteen, and Mark Driscoll?

They all make a lot of money off of the flock.

So, the only difference must be that you agree with Ramsey, and don’t agree with Osteen and Driscoll.

Mark, the difference is that the prosperity theology of Osteen and the abusive behavior of Driscoll are rightly seen as disqualifying sins, whereas the issue with Ramsey is “merely” a house that is for him what a carbon fiber bicycle would be for me.

Maybe someone else, like Shaynus, has something more interesting, but as for me, my question is simply whether it’s a ministry tool (can I have a drink, Dave?) or whether it’s far more stuff than a man can really enjoy—a burden without a blessing. I would agree with you that it certainly appears tacky to the middle class clientele of Ramsey’s companies.