Relearning who God is: How God’s description of himself upends our expectations
“Who is God? If we could pick only one passage from the Old Testament to answer that question, it would be hard to improve upon Exodus 34. God is revealing himself to Moses, causing his glory to pass by Moses, whom God has put in a cleft in the rock (33:22).” - WORLD
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Having now read the article that the OP links to, I hold that Ortlund’s teaching in this article about who God is and what is His glory is seriously deficient. The doctrine of God as Judge and His glory as Judge is not some second-rate truth in Scripture; it permeates the entire Scripture from Genesis 3 to Revelation 22.
Moreover, in evangelism, setting forth truth about God as Judge is of preeminent biblical importance.
For the additional passages in Acts. I don’t have time to examine them now, but I cannot think of a single one where the evangelist tells an unbeliever that “God loves you.” Can you? I’m sure I could also identify a few more passages in the Gospels which would add support to my assertion.
Also, I didn’t mean to ignore your reference to God’s general benevolence in Paul’s sermon in Acts 17. I have no problem assuring unbelievers that God is long suffering and kind toward all, but that’s a long ways from the agape love of John 3:16.
G. N. Barkman
[G. N. Barkman]You are welcome. I cannot think of any evangelistic passages where an evangelist directly tells an unbeliever that God specifically loves him. John 3:16 in the account of Nicodemus does communicate that implicitly to any reader of that account and may be a record of Jesus’ implicitly communicating that truth to Nicodemus when He evangelized him.For the additional passages in Acts. I don’t have time to examine them now, but I cannot think of a single one where the evangelist tells an unbeliever that “God loves you.” Can you? I’m sure I could also identify a few more passages in the Gospels which would add support to my assertion.
Also, I didn’t mean to ignore your reference to God’s general benevolence in Paul’s sermon in Acts 17. I have no problem assuring unbelievers that God is long suffering and kind toward all, but that’s a long ways from the agape love of John 3:16.
Also, the repeated use of the vocative “O” and the 2nd person pronouns in Rom. 2 in effect renders 2:4 to be a direct evangelistic statement of God’s goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering to any unbeliever who reads or hears that statement read or spoken to him.
Rajesh, it is without dispute that any unbeliever who reads the Bible will read much about God’s love for sinners. It’s not a truth that is hidden from view. It’s also true that an unbeliever who reads the Bible is probably being drawn by God.
However, the question I raised is more narrow, namely, “Was the proclamation of God’s love for sinners included in evangelistic endeavors in the NT, in either personal encounters, or evangelistic sermons”? My investigation leads me to conclude that it was not, and therefore, I also conclude that it is probably not helpful to my evangelistic endeavors today. When I preach to my congregation about the love of God for His people, I hit it strong and hard. It is an incredible truth that cannot be exhausted nor exaggerated. To include an evangelistic appeal to the unsaved, I say something like this: “If you want to enjoy this wonderful love of God, turn from your sins and embrace by faith what Jesus Christ has done to rescue hell deserving sinners. Then you, too, will know the blessings of this amazing love.”
But that is a far cry from declaring to unrepentant and unbelieving sinners that “God loves you.” Neither Jesus nor the Apostles evangelized in that manner, and I doubt that we can improve upon their approach.
G. N. Barkman
Now, at long last, I see we were indeed talking past one another. Greg writes:
To include an evangelistic appeal to the unsaved, I say something like this: “If you want to enjoy this wonderful love of God, turn from your sins and embrace by faith what Jesus Christ has done to rescue hell deserving sinners. Then you, too, will know the blessings of this amazing love.”
I completely agree. He also writes:
But that is a far cry from declaring to unrepentant and unbelieving sinners that “God loves you.” Neither Jesus nor the Apostles evangelized in that manner, and I doubt that we can improve upon their approach.
I also completely agree. One’s take on election and effectual calling also come into play, here, but I suspect Greg are I are on the same page on that.
Finis.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
It’s nice to see you change from mild hostility to welcome agreement. It’s amazing what can sometimes be accomplished if we keep talking long enough to truly understand what the other is saying. :)
G. N. Barkman
I assure I was never hostile!
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
[G. N. Barkman]After thinking more about it, I believe that a case can be made that the Sermon on the Mount did implicitly communicate the love of God for sinners to the ones whom Jesus evangelized on that occasion:Rajesh, it is without dispute that any unbeliever who reads the Bible will read much about God’s love for sinners. It’s not a truth that is hidden from view. It’s also true that an unbeliever who reads the Bible is probably being drawn by God.
However, the question I raised is more narrow, namely, “Was the proclamation of God’s love for sinners included in evangelistic endeavors in the NT, in either personal encounters, or evangelistic sermons”? My investigation leads me to conclude that it was not, and therefore, I also conclude that it is probably not helpful to my evangelistic endeavors today. When I preach to my congregation about the love of God for His people, I hit it strong and hard. It is an incredible truth that cannot be exhausted nor exaggerated. To include an evangelistic appeal to the unsaved, I say something like this: “If you want to enjoy this wonderful love of God, turn from your sins and embrace by faith what Jesus Christ has done to rescue hell deserving sinners. Then you, too, will know the blessings of this amazing love.”
But that is a far cry from declaring to unrepentant and unbelieving sinners that “God loves you.” Neither Jesus nor the Apostles evangelized in that manner, and I doubt that we can improve upon their approach.
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Jesus based His command to His audience to love their enemies by speaking indirectly of how God loves everyone including the evil and the unjust. It is significant that in all occurrences of “love” in this passage, Jesus used forms of the verb agapaw.
Jesus indirectly but clearly communicated in this message that God agapaw’s the evil and the unjust. In imitation of Jesus, we thus would be justified in speaking of God’s love for sinful people to sinful people when we evangelize them.
Having said that, I think that I have rarely evangelized with such an appeal. I have done it, but I do not remember having done so very often.
Rajesh, Implicitly is not the issue. The issue is what did NT evangelists say explicitly to unbelievers. The passage you cited is similar to the one you previously cited in Paul’s sermon in Athens in Acts 17 about the basic long suffering and benevolent kindness of God. The passage in the Sermon on the Mount demonstrates that God loves all men, “just and unjust” alike with a kindly benevolence. This passage is spoken to believers telling us how we should love others the way God does. It does not speak directly to unbelievers. The question of this discussion is: “Did Jesus ever say to unbelievers, “I love you.” Or, “My heavenly Father loves you.” If He didn’t, why do we think it is necessary or even helpful for us to say that in evangelism? Do we know something that Jesus didn’t, or are we misunderstanding something that Jesus understood?
G. N. Barkman
[G. N. Barkman]I agree that there are no such passages. I wonder, however, just how willing you would be to employ this same line of reasoning to the fact that there are no explicit evangelistic accounts in Scripture of Gentile evangelism in which anyone testifies that Jesus is the Savior to a group that was exclusively Gentiles or to an individual who was a Gentile.Rajesh, Implicitly is not the issue. The issue is what did NT evangelists say explicitly to unbelievers. The passage you cited is similar to the one you previously cited in Paul’s sermon in Athens in Acts 17 about the basic long suffering and benevolent kindness of God. The passage in the Sermon on the Mount demonstrates that God loves all men, “just and unjust” alike with a kindly benevolence. This passage is spoken to believers telling us how we should love others the way God does. It does not speak directly to unbelievers. The question of this discussion is: “Did Jesus ever say to unbelievers, “I love you.” Or, “My heavenly Father loves you.” If He didn’t, why do we think it is necessary or even helpful for us to say that in evangelism? Do we know something that Jesus didn’t, or are we misunderstanding something that Jesus understood?
Rajesh, I’m not sure I understand your question. If you are asking if anyone explicitly stated that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ (Messiah), to a Gentile audience, I don’t know, because I haven’t studied that question. However, that particular wording would be far more applicable to Jews than Gentiles because Jews were looking for the promised Messiah, and Gentiles were not. However, if you are asking if any evangelists proclaimed to Gentiles that Jesus Christ is the Savior of Gentiles, I think the answer must be Yes. Again, having not studied all the passages with that question in mind, I am “shooting in the dark” (so to speak), but Paul’s words to the Gentile Philippian jailer come immediately to mind, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved and your house.” Does that qualify for a sufficient answer, or are you asking a different question?
G. N. Barkman
[G. N. Barkman]Rajesh, I’m not sure I understand your question. If you are asking if anyone explicitly stated that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ (Messiah), to a Gentile audience, I don’t know, because I haven’t studied that question. However, that particular wording would be far more applicable to Jews than Gentiles because Jews were looking for the promised Messiah, and Gentiles were not. However, if you are asking if any evangelists proclaimed to Gentiles that Jesus Christ is the Savior of Gentiles, I think the answer must be Yes. Again, having not studied all the passages with that question in mind, I am “shooting in the dark” (so to speak), but Paul’s words to the Gentile Philippian jailer come immediately to mind, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved and your house.” Does that qualify for a sufficient answer, or are you asking a different question?
I am not asking whether any “evangelists proclaimed that Jesus Christ is the Savior of Gentiles.” If you are going to limit the discussion to what is explicitly stated in Scripture, there is no evidence in Acts 16 that Paul specifically said to the jailer that Jesus Christ is the Savior using that specific title for Him.
Rajesh, you are correct. I think I see where you are going, and I doubt that it will get us anywhere. I will yield the field of debate to you and bow out. Thanks for a good discussion.
G. N. Barkman
[G. N. Barkman]Ok, thanks.Rajesh, you are correct. I think I see where you are going, and I doubt that it will get us anywhere. I will yield the field of debate to you and bow out. Thanks for a good discussion.
If you might have some more interest in still reading more specifically about whether using the title “Savior” is necessary in Gentile evangelism, here is something that I wrote some time ago that discusses it in more detail: https://apeopleforhisname.org/2011/02/is-it-essential-to-use-the-word-s…
Rajesh, I have now read your article on the absence of the word “Savior” in Gentile evangelism and found it informative. You seem to avoid drawing any clear conclusions or implications from this study, but what you have uncovered is worth pondering. I have some ideas about its possible implications, but that would start a new and potentially lengthy discussion.
I see you are at Mount Calvary. You may know my daughter Cherith and her husband, Eric Newton.
I trust you will have a good day.
G. N. Barkman
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