Elders Rule! But Congregations Decide

Ted, you rightly judged the exegetical skills in the presentation. You should have seen the other ones before it. It would at least help explain why it was as far off base as it was.

[James K]

Ted, you rightly judged the exegetical skills in the presentation. You should have seen the other ones before it. It would at least help explain why it was as far off base as it was.

We’ve yet to judge your exegetical skills, because you’ve not yet put forth your ecclesiology

A request that I submitted earlier:

Suggestion: Promulgate your own view of church government. Start a thread. Thanks

Start a Discussion <–— Click this iink

[Ted Bigelow] In my case, it was sort of myself who “appointed” me.

Actually, if you’re a real pastor and not an hireling, then Jesus appointed you. A congregational vote or, as perhaps in your case, the congregation’s acceptance of you in that position would have or actually confirmed that divine appointment.

This isn’t that hard.

[Ted Bigelow]

GregH wrote:

Ted Bigelow wrote:

In my case, it was sort of myself who “appointed” me.

Here’s my position, though. If I had been less-than qualified my actions would have been high-handed sin against Jesus Christ.

I ask this sincerely. How do you know you are not “less than qualified”?

Greg - why do you ask?

I am a bit surprised that you don’t want to answer questions about your own experience in being appointed to/accepted by your church since you obviously have very specific ideas about how it should be done. I may be wrong but what you describe above about your own situation breaks your own rules.

But leave all that aside. I am just very curious about how you know you are qualified to know if you are qualified to be a pastor. That is very interesting.

It looks to me your case is closer to that of a church planter. This as church planters go into an area and start a church from scratch without the benefit of a preexisting formal set of elders.

[Rob Fall]

It looks to me your case is closer to that of a church planter. This as church planters go into an area and start a church from scratch without the benefit of a preexisting formal set of elders.

Hi Rob,

We had elders within a few weeks, but only because we had several qualified men. Sometimes we can forget 1 Tim. 3:6, “not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.” It’s a disservice to a young believer to put them in leadership, no matter what the polity.

While I do hold to congregational authority, I’m concerned that the article over-limits the pastors ruling function. προί̈στημι is also used in the qualifications when dealing with the pastor’s family responsibilities. If the role of a father in “ruling/managing” his home is analogous to the pastor’s role “ruling/managing” the church, can we really say that he is “ruling/managing” only through teaching and example? I’m sure we would agree that a father has a greater authority than teaching/example! If a pastor is fulfilling a similar role to a father, he must also be doing more than leading through teaching and example.

[jhorneck3723]

While I do hold to congregational authority, I’m concerned that the article over-limits the pastors ruling function. προί̈στημι is also used in the qualifications when dealing with the pastor’s family responsibilities. If the role of a father in “ruling/managing” his home is analogous to the pastor’s role “ruling/managing” the church, can we really say that he is “ruling/managing” only through teaching and example? I’m sure we would agree that a father has a greater authority than teaching/example! If a pastor is fulfilling a similar role to a father, he must also be doing more than leading through teaching and example.

Who said anything about the church planter being a novice? The ones I know personally spent time (years) in established churches before starting their plants. Further, I know of men who were serial church planters.

[Ted Bigelow]

Rob Fall wrote:

It looks to me your case is closer to that of a church planter. This as church planters go into an area and start a church from scratch without the benefit of a preexisting formal set of elders.

Hi Rob,

We had elders within a few weeks, but only because we had several qualified men. Sometimes we can forget 1 Tim. 3:6, “not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.” It’s a disservice to a young believer to put them in leadership, no matter what the polity.

Who said anything about the church planter being a novice? The ones I know personally spent time (years) in established churches before starting their plants. Further, I know of men who were serial church planters.

Only was saying church planters, in their zeal for leaders, are tempted to see other men appointed who are too young for the office.

I too love church planting, where churches are not yet planted. I hope you enjoy this: “Planting Schism”

Ted, please understand I write as a Californian. The Golden State is so church poor and\or Biblically illiterate. Schisms are the least of our worries.

[Rob Fall]

Ted, please understand I write as a Californian. The Golden State is so church poor and\or Biblically illiterate. Schisms are the least of our worries.

I’d like to be in CA right now! Dealing with about 15” of the white stuff :)

Must agree with you, brother, about church poverty and biblical illiteracy. Question is, are you helping, or hindering?

If schism is the least of your worries, why does Paul take the first 4 chapters of 1 Corinthians to deal with it? It was more important than all the other problems in that church. Know why?

So a little quiz for you to see who owns the illiteracy. How many churches are there where you live, and how many are needed?

The Bible has a definite number. Do you know it?

[Ted Bigelow] How many churches are there where you live, and how many are needed?

The Bible has a definite number. Do you know it?

Is it Pi?

In Northern San Mateo County, 15 miles south of San Francisco. I’ve been a member of and active in Hamilton Square Baptist Church of San Francisco http://hamiltonsquare.net founded in 1881. With its large and varied population, my immediate region could use at least 12 more good churches.

[Ted Bigelow]

Rob Fall wrote:

Ted, please understand I write as a Californian. The Golden State is so church poor and\or Biblically illiterate. Schisms are the least of our worries.

I’d like to be in CA right now! Dealing with about 15” of the white stuff

Must agree with you, brother, about church poverty and biblical illiteracy. Question is, are you helping, or hindering?

If schism is the least of your worries, why does Paul take the first 4 chapters of 1 Corinthians to deal with it? It was more important than all the other problems in that church. Know why?

So a little quiz for you to see who owns the illiteracy. How many churches are there where you live, and how many are needed?

The Bible has a definite number. Do you know it?

my immediate region could use at least 12 more good churches

OK. Now support that from Scripture (not to keep you going, but to make a point about biblical illiteracy).