College and Worldview – A Reason for Choosing a Christian Campus

….is that too often, Christian colleges (as their secular counterparts) are accused, too often credibly, of teaching students what to think instead of how to think. As a result, our public discourse becomes a shouting match where both parties are simply talking past each other. If we want to have an impact in the public sphere, we have got to start getting to the point where we have mastered the tools of logic and rhetoric enough to address the arguments of the worldlings coherently.

Or, put differently, if the comprehension of logic (not “critical thinking”; logic) and rhetoric are not required to advance beyond freshman year, I would argue that the college (secular or Christian) is doing more harm than good.

I can understand the “Greenhouse” defense for small children but when mature plants are raised in greenhouses their fruit tends to be bland and dull.

Over the years I’ve seen quite a few college students who have been trained in “The Village” University who have difficulty with independent living. When faced with a difficult choice, they turn to those who trained them to ask for direction and then proceed, confident in the knowledge that their teachers are infallible.

Conformity to the thinking of a group puts us in those “Little Boxes” of the folk song.

Never be afraid of thinking “outside the box” but be fearful of going “outside The Book”.

I have a degree from a Christian University and a secular university. I have also attended 5 different secular universities. I would say that my worldview was neither bolstered nor reduced by either university. The biggest impacts to bolstering my worldview in a Christian light has been my parents growing up as a child, and the current church that I am a member of, by far. I really still feel it is a child by child choice. My middle child has been in public school all his life, and I have never met someone with a more fierce Christian worldview and a strong defendant of that despite the influences around him. He puts me to shame sometimes. Even at the age of 14, he finds the secular worldview as being very informative for him and he has stated that he feels that it makes him more prepared to understand the thinking of the world. This article is written through the view of Don’s eyes, and I understand where he is coming from, but I also believe the discussion is more nuanced than he is willing to discuss.

What college or university REQUIRES a full dose of logic and rhetoric to pass the freshmen year?

[Mod note: edited slightly]

[Mark_Smith]

What college or university REQUIRES a full dose of logic and rhetoric to pass the freshmen year?

[Mod note: edited slightly]

Go back a century, and the answer would have been nearly ALL of them. Today, I’m aware of Patrick Henry and New Saint Andrews, and possibly Grove City or Hillsdale. There are probably a number of others who require this that I’m not aware of.

I concede 100% that my view is a minority view, but as I watch the world go by, it persuades me that we need to resurrect the Trivium in education. There are just too many places where the “debate”, as it were, is something that no logic or rhetoric instructor would have accepted a century ago.

by about the fraction you list.

Isn’t the basic point that:

• Bible College is good … very good! Don’s alma mater (BJ) is a good school. Thank the Lord for Bible colleges!
• Spiritual formation has many elements
• As an aside, a Lutheran campus evangelist mentored me! He only took me so far but I still appreciate him (to this day!)
• Re “You can count me as one who advocates for Christian college education, if at all possible. It is by far the superior route for the Christian young person, in my opinion.” I would expect no less from Don, and Don I appreciate you!
• I personally advocate one on one discipleship under the authority of a father in a family and under the authority of a local church
• Just as there was a time of no Bible colleges, and Christians were discipled …
• There may be a future of no Bible colleges, and Christians will be discipled!
• The church and family have a job to do - let’s rise up and fulfill that role!

I didn’t go to Bible college - I have a Christian worldview!

[Jim]

I didn’t go to Bible college - I have a Christian worldview!

Can I use you as an illustration? I don’t think that I am arguing that you can’t have a Christian worldview without Bible college.

But let me ask you, at 23 or 24, when you graduated from your secular college, was your worldview as thoroughly Christian as it would have been if you had gone to Bible college? Would you have been more effective in the ministry AT THAT POINT IN TIME if you had the benefit of a Christian college education?

Possibly you would have been, no doubt. But I think on average most people who benefit from Christian college are better prepared for ministry and life than those who haven’t had the experience. Note the key words, on average. This is not black and white, or “binary” as KTB would say.

[Don Johnson]

But let me ask you, at 23 or 24, when you graduated from your secular college, was your worldview as thoroughly Christian as it would have been if you had gone to Bible college? Would you have been more effective in the ministry AT THAT POINT IN TIME if you had the benefit of a Christian college education?

Someone asked me today if I regretted having a radical prostatectomy (on March 2nd) (instead of the alternative of radiation).

I rarely look back.

I wasn’t saved until the age of 20. At the time of HS graduation I had 2 choices: the military or college. I looked into joining the Navy (I friend of mine did). Dad forbade it. I had then 1 option: work + live at home + commute daily to the University of Cincinnati.

I literally knew nothing of Bible colleges until in my early 20’s I met someone who went to BIOLA

My family’s finances and my own and my own circumstances only had one way. My family gave me $ 275 towards college plus a place to sleep and meals.

[Don Johnson]

Can I use you as an illustration? I don’t think that I am arguing that you can’t have a Christian worldview without Bible college.

But let me ask you, at 23 or 24, when you graduated from your secular college, was your worldview as thoroughly Christian as it would have been if you had gone to Bible college? Would you have been more effective in the ministry AT THAT POINT IN TIME if you had the benefit of a Christian college education?

Possibly you would have been, no doubt. But I think on average most people who benefit from Christian college are better prepared for ministry and life than those who haven’t had the experience. Note the key words, on average. This is not black and white, or “binary” as KTB would say.

I’m not disagreeing, per se; but I’m not convinced of this either. Is there hard evidence to back this up, or is it merely wishful thinking?

My mind goes back to Dr. Bauder’s (since you mention him Don: “KTB”) controversial assertion from a few years ago:

“[One] reason that Christian schools are in decline is because they do not generally produce a better quality of Christian. Granted, the environment of a Christian school does shield its students from the most brutal influences of the secular school environment, such as rampant drug use and open promiscuity. It also grants Christianity a normative status, so that a student’s faith is not overtly and constantly under attack. Nevertheless, graduates of Christian schools do not seem to be noticeably more spiritually minded than Christian graduates of public schools. The real test is in what happens to Christian school students after they graduate. How many of them are walking with the Lord five years later? The proportions do not seem markedly higher for Christian school alumni than for other Christians of the same age.”

http://www.centralseminary.edu/resources/nick-of-time/205-the-christian-school

If what Bauder says above is true of graduates of Christian high schools compared to Christian graduates of secular high schools, then why should we expect different results from graduates of Bible colleges compared to Christian graduates of secular colleges?

Personally, I think of schoolmates of mine (from a Christian school) who went off to Bible colleges who presently are not in church, are not serving the Lord, and who show little (if any) evidence of regeneration. Of those who now are in church, and are serving the Lord, I’m just not sure there is a discernable difference in their lives compared to other Christians who did not attend Christian higher education.

Using my own (large) church as an example, of those who attended college, we have large numbers of both Bible college graduates and secular college graduates. Among the Bible colleges represented are Pillsbury, Northland, Faith, Maranatha, and others. (I don’t know of any BJU graduates at the present time.)

Comparing the Bible college graduates to the secular college graduates in my church, I’m just not convinced there are real differences in the areas of sanctification, worldview, heart for ministry, or other measures that may apply.

Used to have this regret

This church is less than half a mile behind the home of my teen years

Back then behind my house was a large open field - no houses.

In my early years as a Christian, I wished I had visited that church, heard the Gospel, and would have been saved.

Also I knew Christians but they never witnessed to me, befriended me, invited me.

God had other plans for me

[Don Johnson]

Jim wrote:

I didn’t go to Bible college - I have a Christian worldview!

Can I use you as an illustration? I don’t think that I am arguing that you can’t have a Christian worldview without Bible college.

But let me ask you, at 23 or 24, when you graduated from your secular college, was your worldview as thoroughly Christian as it would have been if you had gone to Bible college? Would you have been more effective in the ministry AT THAT POINT IN TIME if you had the benefit of a Christian college education?

Possibly you would have been, no doubt. But I think on average most people who benefit from Christian college are better prepared for ministry and life than those who haven’t had the experience. Note the key words, on average. This is not black and white, or “binary” as KTB would say.

My view is that it depends on what one sees as a “Christian” worldview. I was a member of a church that had both strong ties with Christian colleges, including BJU, and also a very strong campus ministry to a party school, Michigan State. (I did not live in Cedar Village, where the riots generally happen when the hoops or football team loses, but my dorm complex, Brody, was one of the premier party areas for non-athletes) There were excellent Christians in both groups, many of whom I’m in touch with to this day. In terms of conformity to “expected fundagelical behavior”, the Christian college kids were stronger. However, in terms of general toughness when confronted about their faith, the MSU students were far and away more resilient. It wasn’t even close.

So while I’m all in favor of having Christian colleges, my experience suggests to me that most of them need to seriously up their game in terms of academics and exposure to the world—all too often, that “Christian Bubble” that Family Christian Bookstores is selling is too close to reallity.

Let me say that I’m thankful for Christian schools that instill a Christian worldview in their students AND teach them how to think. Schools that invite questions and are willing to be challenged to defend their positions.

That being said, anyone who thinks that sending a student to a Christian school will protect that student from worldly influences needs to realize that that is an impossibility. I’ve been deeply involved in Christian schools that sought to control the behavior of students both on and off campus and admit that it is impossible.

A well-known Christian educator likened his school to a factory that made writing pens. He would say, “Don’t expect me to produce Cross pens if you send me plastic and wood for building materials.”

[Mark_Smith]

by about the fraction you list.

Mark, if your point is that colleges don’t need to teach logic as a requirement, leading with an appeal to popularity (or lack thereof) fallacy probably isn’t your best tactic. :^)

Seriously, I can envision few things more delicious, at least on a human scale, than a nation with a significant minority of the population clued in to how to recognize at least basic logical fallacies, a sub-population that would vigorously rebuke politicians who rely on them. It could be a huge contribution to our society by Christian colleges if they did this.