Russell Moore: It’s time to take down the Confederate flag
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About 9 years ago a R.C. church in MN removed “Five swastika-emblazoned discs”: The story here : (with image)
Five swastika-emblazoned discs near the roof line of a downtown St. Cloud church are being replaced after years of debate and fundraising. Catholics, Jews and others from the area raised about $14,000 to replace the discs on the north and south facades of St. Mary’s Cathedral. The cathedral plans to replace the discs with symbols portraying the “Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary” named by Pope John Paul Two. The cathedral was modeled after a third-century, basilica-style, Romanesque church in Ravenna, Italy. The symbol on the discs pre-dates Nazi Germany and has appeared in catacomb tomb inscriptions — including on third-century monuments as a cross in the Christian context. But the symbol has been tainted by its association with Nazism.
Observation … probably a good move!
Now there is a move underway to rename one of Minneapolis’ Lakes:
On a smaller scale, a Minneapolis Park Board commissioner is suggesting the city rename Lake Calhoun. The lake’s namesake, John C. Calhoun, was vice president in the 1820s and a staunch supporter of slavery.
“Most historical figures have unsavory histories,” said Cedar Phillips, executive director of the Hennepin History Museum in Minneapolis.
“It’s been known as ‘Calhoun’ for more than 175 years. I think it’s long since ceased to be associated with ‘Calhoun’ the man,” she said.
I’m sure many are aware of the debate over the use of “Squaw” in place names (as in Squaw Valley). NYTimes:
“Squaw” originated in a branch of the Algonquin language, where it meant simply “woman,” but it turned into a slur on the tongues of white settlers, who used it to refer derisively to Indian women in general or a part of their anatomy in particular. The settlers liked the word so much that there are now more than 170 springs, gulches, bluffs, valleys, and gaps in this state called “squaw.” All must be renamed under a 2001 law that was enacted after two members of the confederated tribes persuaded the Legislature that the word was offensive to many American Indians and should be erased from maps. But only 13 places have been renamed so far. It is a problem familiar to Indians and government officials in several states where attempts to outlaw “squaw” have been caught in a thicket of bureaucratic, historical and linguistic snares.
In Maine, one frustrated county changed all “squaw” names to “moose” in one fell swoop to save on hassle, while in Minnesota, disgruntled residents suggested new names like Politically Correct Creek and Politically Correct Bay. But often the stumbling block has been questions over what Indians themselves would prefer instead of “squaw.”
The debate echoes those from decades ago over places named with slurs for blacks and Japanese. In 1963 and 1974, respectively, offending slurs were replaced on federal maps with “negro” and “Japanese” (about a dozen of the “negro” names have since been changed). Concerns of other groups have been addressed in a more piecemeal fashion, and not always with the same result.
In the early 1990’s, after two years of consideration, Yellowstone National Park’s Chinaman Spring was changed to Chinese Spring. In 2001, American ichthyologists adopted a new name for the jewfish, the Goliath grouper, citing the precedent of an earlier change, from squawfish to pikeminnow. But the United States Board on Geographic Names declined to rename Jewfish Creek in the Florida Keys because there was little local sentiment for doing so. “Geographic names are parts of language,” said Roger Payne,
I’ve always associated the The Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia (AKA the Confederate flag) with southern heritage and pride (and for the General Lee of the Dukes of Hazzard). That being said, I would never display a Confederate flag (eg as a sticker or front license plate.). I can see the point of view that it is pro-slavery / anti-black. My speculation is that soon SC will remove the image from their state flag.
David,
you have addressed neither Moore’s article nor my point, which was basically a summary of the former.
I didn’t see where either Moore or I called for passing of any new laws.
So, I call red herring at least, perhaps even straw man.
Be well.
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Whatever your personal feelings about the Confederate Battle Flag, can we all at least agree/acknowledge that to many people their reaction is intensely negative?
How the Confederacy lives on in the flags of seven Southern states:
Defenders of the flag say it’s a symbol of Southern heritage. Detractors maintain that hatred and racism are an inextricable part of that heritage. With all the focus on South Carolina, it’s easy to forget that Confederate symbolism still adorns many official state flags in the South. Some states, like Georgia and Mississippi, have seen fierce political battles over explicit Confederate imagery in their flags. In other states, the references are subtler.
When I was in grade school (in the 50’s) I was quite a doodler (as in idle scribbling). I still am:
- Stars
- Figure eights
- Ampersands
- Sevens
Even today I can be on a conference call and the pen is busy making images. I can easily fill up a page (hey it beats smoking!)
In grade school the Nazi symbol was part of my doodling repertoire. A teacher (and keep in mind this was probably a bit more than a decade after the end of WWII) severely reprimanded me. I stopped and never doodled that again.
If one likes Ride of the Valkyries does that make one a Nazi?
See also Israel’s Problems with Richard Wagner and Nazi appropriation
The fact is that the flag creates an image. This image is well known and understood. I lived in the deep south and I know what the imagery is. With that said, flying or not flying the flag does not address the root of the problem. The flag is a symbol of the problem. Taking it down or not, doesn’t solve the racial issue. I think we approach the problem naively if we say that taking down the flag will begin to resolve the issues. The fact is that the guys with the flag in their yard, driving with it painted on the back of the truck or waving it with their gun, could care less if the flag was waving over the capital or not. The issue is significantly deeper. We must also recognize that race issues are not something that can be fully be solved. Even in the most progressive countries on the planet there are race issues. The only thing we can hope is to reduce them. I spend a lot of time in Europe and the race issues there are appalling.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politics/nikki-haley-confederate-flag-sou…
Updated from WSJ: http://www.wsj.com/articles/south-carolina-governor-to-call-for-removal…
South Carolina Governor to Call for Removal of Confederate Battle Flag
The War Between the States was about two things (primarily).
1. States’ Rights - Under federalism, did the Federal government have the right to tell Southern States that they could no longer have slavery? Constitutionally, this is vague. At the time, the Constitution recognized slavery, and perhaps only an amendment could legally cure the discrepancy. Southern sympathizers claim that the Confederacy was simply fighting for her rights (the right to slavery being the primary sticking point).
2. Individual Rights - Slavery is an essential violation of individual rights. The North was trying to cure this evil, and they went beyond the Constitution to do it.
Big question. Which is more important? States’ Rights, or Individual Rights? The Constitution, or the life and freedom of your fellow man?
The Confederate Battle Flag is a symbol of States fighting for the right to enslave and murder their fellow human beings. In my book, that is evil. You have the right to fly the flag of racism. I served five years to defend that right. But you might as well fly the swastika along with it. Both are flags under which men died defending the state’s right to enslave and murder God’s children. Evil.
The Confederate Battle Flag is a symbol of States fighting for the right to enslave and murder their fellow human beings.
Support for Sean’s assertion above, from the “Cornerstone Speech” by Alexander Stephens, VP of the Confederacy:
Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.
“…I could never fly the flag that represented their cause in battle. I know full well that today’s defenders of that flag — by far most of them — do not intend to send a racial message nor to defy civil rights. But some do, and there is no way to escape the symbolism that so wounds our neighbors — and our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. Today, most who defend that flag do so to claim a patrimony and to express love for a region. But that is not the whole story, and we know it.”
http://www.albertmohler.com/2015/06/23/the-heresy-of-racial-superiority…
For almost a century past the end of the Civil War the “Confederate Battle Flag” was not flown on South Carolina’s State Capitol or its grounds. Only since 1962 has it once again been flown there. Why was it taken out of mothballs in 1962? Here’s why:
“In the aftermath of the shootings, protesters on the streets and on social media demanded that the flag — which was unfurled over the State House in 1962, largely as a symbol of defiance of efforts to expand the civil rights of black Americans — finally be removed.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/23/us/south-carolina-confederate-flag-dy…
I’m no fan of the N.Y. Times, but in this instance they’re accurate. I was previously aware of the flag’s history at the S.C. State Capitol. It was unfurled again in 1962 as a symbolic poke-in-the-eye to the civil rights movement. It was flown once again out of spite.
Do most folks in S.C. think of it in such terms today? Most do not, but there certainly are some there and elsewhere who do. The Charleston murderer is one extreme example.
…..for the flag being flown since 1962—documented in National Geographic no less—is that the federal government specifically asked the states to commemorate the Civil War on the centennial of its start. Not that spite towards the civil rights movement wasn’t involved, too, but it is a fact that the federal government gave the states cover to do this that way.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
[Bert Perry]…..for the flag being flown since 1962—documented in National Geographic no less—is that the federal government specifically asked the states to commemorate the Civil War on the centennial of its start. Not that spite towards the civil rights movement wasn’t involved, too, but it is a fact that the federal government gave the states cover to do this that way.
……not in the minds of its defenders, but in the minds of those whose ancestors were among these 94 people (souls created in the image of God) who had been forcibly captured and were sold at auction in Charleston, S.C. in 1769?:
No one on this thread has argued that it is a good thing to fly. Phil Kidd is an idiot.
The flag did not cause racism. Opportunist racists of various stripes have seized upon the flag. I state again here, I do not have that flag, I never will, and I am glad the south lost. General Lee should have been hanged for treason.
Is the confederate flag a gospel issue? Of course NOT. Good grief people. So bizarre seeing how people pick and choose what they boycott.
1 Kings 8:60 - so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God and that there is no other.
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