BJU faulted for response to GRACE report
[Jim]Bob Joneses on Al Haig and George Bush:
Bob Jones Jr. pilloried Secretary of State Alexander Haig as “a monster in human flesh” and publicly prayed that God would “smite him hip and thigh, bone and marrow, heart and lungs.”
Bob Jones III denounced Ronald Reagan as “a traitor to God’s people” for the sin of choosing as his vice president George H.W. Bush, whom Jones called “a devil.”
Hard to root for them!
I am reminded of a letter I once saw written by BJ Jr to a black student in which he basically told him that “Negroes” were best suited for working in the kitchen. The letter used to be online somewhere but I can’t find it now and I can’t vouch for its authenticity but I have no good reason to doubt it was authentic. And of course, that was about the same time as the “liberal” Billy Graham was trying to integrate his crusades.
It appears to me that BJU is coming around pretty quickly to some semblance of sanity but face it, they were so far gone in the past that even great improvement now does not get them up to speed with everyone else.
[Jim]Bob Joneses on Al Haig and George Bush:
Bob Jones Jr. pilloried Secretary of State Alexander Haig as “a monster in human flesh” and publicly prayed that God would “smite him hip and thigh, bone and marrow, heart and lungs.”
Bob Jones III denounced Ronald Reagan as “a traitor to God’s people” for the sin of choosing as his vice president George H.W. Bush, whom Jones called “a devil.”
Hard to root for them!
Some people may say, “Those quotes were from a long, long time ago. Why can’t people just get over it.”
But that is exactly the point! The reason why those quotes are still brought up is because BJU has never really addressed them and only relatively recently have they started acting different from their usual MO.
Perhaps I am mistaken, but it seems that the vast majority of these kinds of controversies are attributed to BJ Jr. I see occasional things from III like the one that began this thread and really cannot remember anything like this attributed to Sr, but Jr seems to have been in the middle of a number of these kinds of controversies - he was also the one castigating MacArthur in the so-called blood controversy as I recall. Does that seem to be the case to anyone else?
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
[GregH]I am reminded of a letter I once saw written by BJ Jr to a black student in which he basically told him that “Negroes” were best suited for working in the kitchen. The letter used to be online somewhere but I can’t find it now and I can’t vouch for its authenticity but I have no good reason to doubt it was authentic. And of course, that was about the same time as the “liberal” Billy Graham was trying to integrate his crusades.
It appears to me that BJU is coming around pretty quickly to some semblance of sanity but face it, they were so far gone in the past that even great improvement now does not get them up to speed with everyone else.
I would not write in derogation of a person’s character, even if the person is deceased, based upon a vague recollection of a letter seen somewhere unidentified and for which you “can’t vouch for its authenticity.” I would hope that my character would not be impugned upon the basis of a vague recollection and that you believed the evidence against me left “no good reason to doubt it was authentic” and nothing more. I am not necessarily defending Bob Jones, Jr. but would caution against making such insinuations without reliable evidence upon which to base them. How does this bring glory to the cause of Christ?
JSB
In 30 plus years of ministry, I have had numerous interviews for positions in ministries. Nearly all of them were for sound fundamental ministries that were outside of the BJU realm. Because of my degree from BJU, in nearly every one I was asked my position on race relations and inter-racial marriage. I was asked more than once if I thought Betty Ford was a slut and if Dr. Bob Jr. imprecatory prayer concerning Al Haig was right.
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
J. Baillet,
The Quote was this,
“(A) Negro is best when he serves at the table. When he does that, he’s doing what he knows how to do best. And the Negroes who have ascended to positions in government, in education, this sort of thing, I think you’ll find, by and large, have a strong strain of white blood in them. Now, I’m not a racist and this school is not a racist institution. I can’t stress that enough. But what I say is purely what I have been taught, and what I have been able to study is the teaching of the Scripture.”
Here is one book that references it, if you want the source. But if you look it is referenced in many places. With that said, this was really not that unusual from a fundamentalist pastor in the deep south. My grandfather, a fundamentalist pastor, who is still alive and was a friend of Sr. and was a pastor during the same time period, believed the same thing.
I had an interview a few weeks ago for a position that I did not get, but one of the VPs that I talked with said that he ‘knew about Bob Jones University’ in a manner that seemed to indicate that he’d heard all sorts of bad things (and let’s face it, when does BJU get good press nationally anyway?). So I do think that it’s important that BJU deals properly with issues of the past, including these GRACE reports.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
[dgszweda]J. Baillet,
The Quote was this,
“(A) Negro is best when he serves at the table. When he does that, he’s doing what he knows how to do best. And the Negroes who have ascended to positions in government, in education, this sort of thing, I think you’ll find, by and large, have a strong strain of white blood in them. Now, I’m not a racist and this school is not a racist institution. I can’t stress that enough. But what I say is purely what I have been taught, and what I have been able to study is the teaching of the Scripture.”
Here is one book that references it, if you want the source. But if you look it is referenced in many places. With that said, this was really not that unusual from a fundamentalist pastor in the deep south. My grandfather, a fundamentalist pastor, who is still alive and was a friend of Sr. and was a pastor during the same time period, believed the same thing.
Much appreciated. Both the evidentiary basis and the historical context. I am not an apologist for Bob Jones, Jr. but believe such comments should be more carefully founded (as you have done) before being attributed.
JSB
This has really become an area of concern for me. As a parent of 3 current students at BJU, I’ll admit I have an interest in the University. Having said that, those who are all up in arms about BJU’s supposed “lack of response” are selling something and too many people, including the media and a few on this board are all too willingly scooping it up. How many stories, FB posts, open letters have you read that said that they were disappointed in the lack of response? That’s a narrative that smells up to high heaven.
First, has anyone taken the time to review all of GRACE’s recommendations and BJU’s responses to them? By my count, I found 25 recommendations and noted that BJU has responded favorably or plans to respond (in the case of the long-range recommendations) to 19 out of the 25. That’s a .760 batting average. How many major leaguers will be there after the first week of the season? In some cases, BJU’s response goes well beyond GRACE’s recommendations. I counted 2 additional recommendations in which BJU completed a review based on GRACE’s recommendations and came to a different conclusion.
The problem for the Disaffected is that the University is thus far committed to remaining faithful to a Biblical approach to counseling and not jettisoning everyone that embraces that approach (BJIII, Berg, Mazak, etc.). Does anyone honestly think at this point that the entire staff doesn’t have a hair-trigger sensitivity toward their responsibility to mandatory reporting? Does anyone honestly think that given today’s climate that if the Admin/staff took an approach that even remotely gave the impression that they were trying to protect someone instead of doing the right thing that alarm bells would not jangle all throughout upstate SC? Does anyone think that an abuse/assault case would be handled now anywhere near how it may have been handled 30-40 years ago, or even 5 years ago? They (the dis-a’s) know that if they can move the University away from standing on the sufficiency of scripture, they will have given them the momentum-building push down the slope towards destruction. Make no mistake about it. While some have recently and publicly proclaimed their love for their “nourishing mother,” the vast majority of the dis-a’s are bent on its demise.
Second, GRACE made recommendations. Not proclamations. Not commands. Not imperatives. BJU is under no obligation to heed any of them. Obviously, that wouldn’t be wise, and as noted above, they’re way above Splendid Splinter territory. Please, let’s put to rest this false narrative being spun by those vested in the destruction of the school and encourage an honest dialogue.
As a parent of three young children, I pray BJU will do what it needs to before God & men. I want to send our kids there one day if that is what God wants for them!
Robert's church website is www.odbc.org.au.
“This has really become an area of concern for me. As a parent of 3 current students at BJU, I’ll admit I have an interest in the University. Having said that, those who are all up in arms about BJU’s supposed “lack of response” are selling something and too many people, including the media and a few on this board are all too willingly scooping it up. How many stories, FB posts, open letters have you read that said that they were disappointed in the lack of response? That’s a narrative that smells up to high heaven.
First, has anyone taken the time to review all of GRACE’s recommendations and BJU’s responses to them? By my count, I found 25 recommendations and noted that BJU has responded favorably or plans to respond (in the case of the long-range recommendations) to 19 out of the 25. That’s a .760 batting average. How many major leaguers will be there after the first week of the season? In some cases, BJU’s response goes well beyond GRACE’s recommendations. I counted 2 additional recommendations in which BJU completed a review based on GRACE’s recommendations and came to a different conclusion.
The problem for the Disaffected is that the University is thus far committed to remaining faithful to a Biblical approach to counseling and not jettisoning everyone that embraces that approach (BJIII, Berg, Mazak, etc.). Does anyone honestly think at this point that the entire staff doesn’t have a hair-trigger sensitivity toward their responsibility to mandatory reporting? Does anyone honestly think that given today’s climate that if the Admin/staff took an approach that even remotely gave the impression that they were trying to protect someone instead of doing the right thing that alarm bells would not jangle all throughout upstate SC? Does anyone think that an abuse/assault case would be handled now anywhere near how it may have been handled 30-40 years ago, or even 5 years ago? They (the dis-a’s) know that if they can move the University away from standing on the sufficiency of scripture, they will have given them the momentum-building push down the slope towards destruction. Make no mistake about it. While some have recently and publicly proclaimed their love for their “nourishing mother,” the vast majority of the dis-a’s are bent on its demise.
Second, GRACE made recommendations. Not proclamations. Not commands. Not imperatives. BJU is under no obligation to heed any of them. Obviously, that wouldn’t be wise, and as noted above, they’re way above Splendid Splinter territory. Please, let’s put to rest this false narrative being spun by those vested in the destruction of the school and encourage an honest dialogue.”
I didn’t know such sanity still existed on Sharper Iron with reference to Bob Jones.
“It’s like something from The Jetsons, only it’s real.
You bring up a website on your phone, ask for a ride to show up at your door, and voila, it’s there for you to hop on and go where you need to go.
And here’s the kicker; there’s no driver.
That’s the idea behind a project under development by undergraduate engineering students at Bob Jones University.”
http://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/education/2015/02/27/driverless-taxi-built-bju/24111367/
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“Now in its 18th year of telling the gospel story through living displays of art, the annual Living Gallery at Bob Jones University has become an Upstate Easter tradition. Programs will be in Rodeheaver Auditorium at 4:30 and 7:30 p.m. April 2-4 with an additional program at 2 p.m. April 4.”
http://www.goupstate.com/article/20150325/ARTICLES/150329906
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“Bob Jones University is holding its semi-annual Blood Connection Drive March 9-13 from 11:45 a.m. to 7 p.m. every day.
The Blood Connection now offering incentives for blood donors that include points towards gift cards to places like Amazon, Target, Applebee’s and Wal-Mart. Free t-shirts will also be given out by the Community Service Council.
“The shortage of blood is huge, and every three seconds, someone needs a blood donation. The possibility of us needing a donation in our lifetime is 78 percent,” says Christina Wornow, a student and the BJU community service representative.”
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“A Bob Jones University professor Bruce Byers, who chairs the university’s division of modern language and literature, has been awarded a lifetime achievement award from the South Carolina Foreign Language Teachers Association.
Byers is a Francophone ambassador who has spread his love for the French language to students he teaches in three classes at BJU and to Michelin employees during the summer.
He’s participated in mission trips to Quebec and Haiti and has translated sermons into French to be used in French radio broadcasts.
Byers has co-authored two high school French textbooks as well as published several articles in The French Review, the journal of the American Association of Teachers of French, where he is a member.”
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“The Bob Jones University basketball program had an historic night Thursday. And it could have another tonight.
The men’s team blew a 16-point halftime lead and overcame four players’ fouling out to defeat Columbia International 97-93 in overtime in the National Christian College Athletic Association South Regional tournament for the Bruins’ first-ever postseason victory.
The win also allowed them to join the women’s team as postseason winners. Maggi Ford scored 19 points, including back-to-back 3-pointers in overtime to lead the Bruins to a 63-55 victory against the Rams in the women’s semifinals at Central.
The women’s team will play for its first region title at 6 p.m. against host and defending South champion Southern Wesleyan, which advanced by upsetting No. 1 seed Emmanuel 71-68 in overtime.
The men’s team (10-19) faces host Emmanuel (17-10) at 7 p.m. at Franklin Springs, Georgia.”
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“Fourteen Bob Jones University students won numerous awards during the Intercollegiate National Religious Broadcasters (iNRB) Competition recently in Nashville, bringing back first, second and third place prizes in several categories.
Students also participated in the National Religious Broadcasters Convention held in the Gaylord Opryland Convention Center following the iNRB Competition.”
http://greertoday.com/greer-sc/bju-students-win-numerous-awards-at-inrb-convention/2015/03/04/
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….BJU is not the only school in the country, secular or religious, that has some embarrassing stories to tell. Apart from historically black colleges, the color barrier in intercollegiate athletics isn’t that far back, and Jackie Robinson only started with the Dodgers in 1947.
The trick, in my opinion, is not whether there are embarrassing stories to tell about any institution. It is whether we confess our sin appropriately and point others to the Biblical reasons we were wrong. Regarding BJU specifically, I would dare suggest that there are certain things that BJ I and BJ Jr. did that BJ III and Steve Pettit ought to specifically disavow—something like “It is of course somewhat difficult to speak for the dead, but we have reviewed a list of statements made by our predecessors, and we believe that they, while a product of their time and culture, were wrong, and we believe that in Heaven, beyond the possibility of sin, our father and grandfather would confess they were wrong, too. We have provided a list of statements—sometimes comprehensive, sometimes more representative—along with our sincere apology for these statements, and Biblical explanations of why the original statements were wrong.”
Or something like that. Again, not just BJU, and I’m rooting for them, and part of rooting for them must be pointing them to what probably needs to be done for them to survive. Like Jay notes, BJU has a well-earned reputation that prospective students would do well to heed, as well as administration.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Above news reports from Larry .disabuse the idea that the media ” is on board with the haters and is doing whatever they can to destroy the University”
[Michelle Shuman]The media is on board with the haters and is doing whatever they can to destroy the University. That is evident whenever anything remotely related to BJU comes up down here. I believe the hatred is because these people are really haters of God and His truth. Praying is our most powerful weapon against God’s enemies.
Michelle
1. The newspaper claims this is an open letter, but when I approached them, they will not release the letter or the writers. Therefore, it cannot be considered “open.” These people can say anything and have it published, but we aren’t allowed to make our own determination about the credibility. If everything they claim is true, then they broke their confidentiality agreement with BJU and that says volumes.
2. If BJU openly get rid of Berg and BJIII, will they lose the majority of their true supporters? If BJIII didn’t still have people that support him, then why does he have so many meetings. I think they are in a difficult place on this matter because no matter what they will be criticized.
3 Larry Nelson: You have to look hard in the mainstream media to find positive information about BJU. The reason for the information about the engineering students is that is a political issue and something the Greenville News has come out in strong favor of our county council spending money on - to the point of a strong editorial about it.
Michelle
Michelle Shuman
Discussion