Why Do Resources for Women Seem Like “Christianity Lite?”

I really don’t think that seminaries are backward but that as a subculture, we sometimes have a narrow vision of what “ministry” is and how it plays out in the life of the church. As a conservative, I appreciate the practical realities that training men for male-exclusive eldership presents; and yet, I also know that I use homiletics every time I teach our ladies Bible study group. If the concern is women practicing in front of a class of men, I get that, but surely there is a way around this?
I suppose I’m wondering how we identify and train women who are called to professional ministry (albiet not eldership). That’s the core question—do seminaries have a culture that recognizes and affirms that a woman could need a seminary degree and yet not be pursuing eldership?

This is especially relevant in missions, particularly for those called to work in Islamic countries. There, women are going to be the primary ones to bear the gospel to other women and disciple them. Also, having professionally trained women who can teach and counsel other women in local church settings would go a long way to preventing the inappropriate relationships that can happen between pastors and female parishioners.

From just this thread, we’ve seen that there are seminaries that provide quality Biblical training to women. Some don’t provide homiletics for women. Who cares? That’s not a big loss. Just read some good books (e.g, Adams, Robinson, Chappell - especially Adams!). I preached for years, and graduated with an MA, before I ever took a single homiletics class (I had a secular undergrad). Hermeneutics is the key. So is theology.

I think women at many Seminaries have opportunity to learn the Bible. The crux is the local church. Are churches creative enough to find roles for women to teach one another? If a church’s idea of “women’s ministry” allows nothing more than changing diapers or licking stamps, then … there won’t be opportunities.

In a vain attempt to wrest this thread back - do so many women (1) write miscellaneous fluff and (2) gravitate towards it because churches don’t have a robust view of women’s discipleship? Is the concept of “women’s ministry” a little too overblown? Should a ladies bible study do a study of Ephesians, or grab a copy of Bad Girls of the Bible? Sadly, a lot of people opt for the latter just because it has a “woman’s” theme. I think they’d be better off with Ephesians!

Tim Challies wrote an interesting article about the pastor’s role in the women’s ministry of a church. http://www.challies.com/book-reviews/true-woman-101

To me, one significant reason for the “lite-ness” of so much of the church’s women’s ministry is due to the pastor’s neglect of his duty in this area. It can be quite challenging because it is not usually an area of comfort for men, but I agree with the OP that the tendency of searching the Scriptures for passages/themes which related directly and exclusively to women’s issues is part of the reason that so few look to the pastor to lead in teaching the women. Instead of pursuing Biblical womanhood as an end in itself, we ought to pursue discipleship to Biblical maturity. Nothing wrong with a woman pursuing seminary training if she has the opportunity and desire to do so, but the church (and by implication, the pastor) can be and ought to be doing more to train women to teach and lead other women.

pvawter wrote:

Instead of pursuing Biblical womanhood as an end in itself, we ought to pursue discipleship to Biblical maturity

I’d quickly agree that theological training is available to women, but I’m not convinced that it is encouraged. When a young man in a church steps up and says that he believes God is calling him to vocational ministry, he’s initiated into a “band of brothers” and encouraged in his theological training. What happens when a young woman says this? The relationship between the academy and church is essential to this conversation. If “theology” is seen as a man’s domain, if it is modeled by only men in a church context, women won’t associate themselves with it. They’ll choose Bad Girls of the Bible because that’s what they believe they are supposed to prefer.
Also, I’m uncomfortable with the notion that pastors need to be doing more direct teaching over women. I’ve seen this as a growing trend among reformed conservative evangelicals and worry that

• 1) It strips gifted women of an area of service.
• 2) It’s not consistent with paradigm of Titus 2. (Perhaps for a time to teach a select group of women, but this too belies the current state of women’s ministry. If you don’t have a woman knowledgeable enough to teach other women, you’ve got a bigger problem on your hands that how to organize your women’s ministry.)
• 3) It invites temptation by putting the pastor in a position of spiritual intimacy that a husband should hold. If a pastor gets up in front of women, leading them spiritually in ways that their husbands do not, the average woman is going to be tempted to shift her respect to him, building emotional ties with him and comparing her husband’s spirituality against his. I know this is not intentional on the part of male leadership, but it’s something they may not understand about female dynamics.

I agree with your remarks about how men ought not to lead women’s studies. I disagree with Challies’ blog article (linked above … somewhere).

You wrote:

The relationship between the academy and church is essential to this conversation. If “theology” is seen as a man’s domain, if it is modeled by only men in a church context, women won’t associate themselves with it.

I do want to affirm that the culture of your church will be the deciding factor. We had a lady at my former church who was studying for a BA in Bible. She was heavily involved in Precept Ministries, and ran the ladies bible study (still does!). She was very knowledgeable and passionate. I enjoyed having theological conversations with her, and she emails me every once in a blue moon to talk theological “shop.” Some men would be intimidated by that. I think it is wonderful. The culture in the local church will decide whether this kind of thing is “acceptable” or not.

[handerson]

…If “theology” is seen as a man’s domain, if it is modeled by only men in a church context, women won’t associate themselves with it. They’ll choose Bad Girls of the Bible because that’s what they believe they are supposed to prefer.

Sometimes I wonder if we’ve kind of made our own bed in terms of ‘barring’ women from theological study (speaking as a complementarian, male-only church leadership guy myself) in the fear that we might end up going egalitarian / pro-women pastors. I’ve seen the materials used in women’s studies and to call it “lacking” is a tremendous understatement.

A friend of mine told me that his wife started a Biblical Hebrew class the other day. My first reaction - I wish I could take Hebrew! My second reaction - Good for her!

Thanks for sharing this, Hannah.

[handerson]

Also, I’m uncomfortable with the notion that pastors need to be doing more direct teaching over women. I’ve seen this as a growing trend among reformed conservative evangelicals and worry that

• 1) It strips gifted women of an area of service.
• 2) It’s not consistent with paradigm of Titus 2. (Perhaps for a time to teach a select group of women, but this too belies the current state of women’s ministry. If you don’t have a woman knowledgeable enough to teach other women, you’ve got a bigger problem on your hands that how to organize your women’s ministry.)
• 3) It invites temptation by putting the pastor in a position of spiritual intimacy that a husband should hold. If a pastor gets up in front of women, leading them spiritually in ways that their husbands do not, the average woman is going to be tempted to shift her respect to him, building emotional ties with him and comparing her husband’s spirituality against his. I know this is not intentional on the part of male leadership, but it’s something they may not understand about female dynamics.

I am not sure exactly what to make of your concerns. It is certainly possible for a pastor to ignore gifted women in the congregation and neglect to give them opportunities to teach, and I suppose that in some cases that may be what is happening, but exactly how prevalent do you think that issue is? How exactly should the church prepare gifted women to teach? And what is the pastor’s role in that training? Should the pastor ever get up in front of women to teach/preach? Does a Sunday sermon set up a dangerous comparison between the spiritual competency of the pastor and a woman’s husband?

It seems to me that the question at the root of this is, “Is the pastor the shepherd of the entire flock or just the male sheep?” Clearly Paul expected Titus to play some role in the training and discipleship of the women of the church, and if the problem of lite-ness is as prevalent as you suggest, then it will not be corrected by better resources but by better pastoral leadership, at least in part.

To pvawter:
My main concern is with the level of intimacy. A woman (better: a wife) sitting under pastoral teaching in a congregation does so alongside and with her husband. In a woman’s ministry, she would sit under his teaching somewhat more autonomously. The relationship is much more immediate and therefore much more vulnerable. Women’s groups are designed to be more informal and intimate in order to facilitate growth in a way that can’t necessarily happen in larger context.
And, yes I agree that the pastor leads the entire flock, but even in a family, a mother teachers her daughters in ways that are different from a father. There are probably even things that a father should NOT address with his daughters. Creating space for a “mothering” role for gifted women to teach younger women doesn’t negate the pastor’s oversight in anyway. Teaching women would still be subject to authority of church leadership.

She was quoted somewhere here— her books are excellent— exactly about how to create Titus 2 relationships among the generations of women. And her idea of women’s ministry and discipleship is very meaty.

Wanted to note that I actually have been impressed with some of the Bible study material coming out these days. Wendy Alsup, Karen Campbell (thatmom.com– not Bible study but great discernment and mentoring), Sally Clarkson, …

Part of the issue, too, is women being individually in the Word and able to read and study it by themselves. Once a week might add to that, but the personal level is most critical.

I am not suggesting a wholesale taking-over of the ladies’ ministry by the pastor, but he must be involved somehow.

Absolutely. And perhaps I wasn’t clear. I was referencing situations where elders have become the primary teachers of women’s Bible studies.I know of a couple situations where this has happened. Again, I do think a key part of the solution is encouraging women be trained theologically. At a local church level, this may be as simple as the women’s ministry leader taking an online or distance-ed class. My concern is that the larger problems with women’s discipleship can’t be solved by simply leaving all the doctrinal teaching up to the men.