Northland makes adjustments: "it’s clear that we need to make more changes in order to live within our means"

Chip, we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Do you have written dress standards for your church’s worship services?

In response to: “[when] there’s no standard in place. Surely you’ve heard the old saying if you aim for nothing you’ll hit it every time”

Has anyone here that is talking about NIU’s dress standards as good or bad actually visited the school?
Just wondering.

[Jim]

Do you have written dress standards for your church’s worship services?

In response to: “[when] there’s no standard in place. Surely you’ve heard the old saying if you aim for nothing you’ll hit it every time”

Who asked: “No, but I have had them for leadership and official service ministries. Doesn’t your church have the same? Are you equating church attendance with college matriculation? You would have to compare the college student to the church member before you could even begin to have similarity.”

• Does my church have dress standards for leadership?: I believe there is a standard that someone who is in the pulpit has to wear a suit but I’m not sure. I’ve actually seen my pastor in shorts … I was shocked … I mean S H O C K E D. :)
• Are you equating church attendance with college matriculation? : No. I was making the point that you can actually have a society of people who dress appropriately without written standards. (There have been several times at church that some of the young women (typically teens) have shorter dresses or tighter dresses than I personally approve … but such is life (work, shopping, etc))

[Jim]

• Are you equating church attendance with college matriculation? : No. I was making the point that you can actually have a society of people who dress appropriately without written standards. (There have been several times at church that some of the young women (typically teens) have shorter dresses or tighter dresses than I personally approve … but such is life (work, shopping, etc))

A) Sometime people do dress inappropriately,

B) No one can say with absolute certainty when someone is dressed inappropriately because it’s arbitrary, and

C) Nothing is done when someone does dress inappropriately.

That sounds exactly like what I said earlier, “If you aim for nothing, you’ll hit it every time.”

Subject line: Northland makes adjustments: “it’s clear that we need to make more changes in order to live within our means”

Now we are (yet again) slamming BJU. Nice. Congratulations. We can see what is going on here.

Are you serious? We’re “slamming” BJU?

Comparing the BJU student handbook and the NIU policy on dress standards is comparing aircraft and apples. They aren’t the same, and shouldn’t be treated the same.

One thought I think is missing from conversations like this is that ALOT of parents wanted it that way. I feel traditional fundy schools, i.e. BJU & NIU (in its previous form), are unfairly criticized for having rules and in the case of this conversation, dress codes. The idea of the fundy school being an extension of parental authority is an older way of thinking. I think we need to keep in mind that many, many parents & dare I say, students, wanted it that way. In other words, it wasn’t as if BJU was forcing on people something nobody wanted. During the period when BJU’s rules were the toughest (50’s-80’s) was when their enrollment was the highest. It was during the early-middle 90’s when NIU had those “Draconian” & overbearing rules and the idea of, gasp!!, en loco parentis, that its enrollment exploded.

Rules and dress codes are fine as long as they aren’t equated with scripture. The rule book and dress code manual can be 12” thick, no problem, as long as they aren’t brought up to the same level as scripture. And this is exactly what NIU was pretty good at doing. Dr. Ollila made it a special point to note that the many of the rules in place were for organizational purposes and were not equal with scripture.

However, once you sign on the dotted line that you agree to abide by the rules and then you don’t, then any organization has the right to call you on it. This is the point that I think many people get hung-up. People didn’t like being held accountable to the rules they agreed to live by and so they call BJU or NIU “legalistic.” If you don’t like the rules, then don’t go to that school or work at that company. If you are going to go, then have the maturity to follow the authority you signed-up for.

So, go ahead and rip on BJU & NIU for their current/former “demerit heavy system”, but just remember most of their market asked/is asking for it.

As long as they are freely available to students & parents before any $$ changes hands.

BJU has a lot of strengths and I appreciate the school.

I do like NIU’s approach better for a number of reasons

MMartin, I really appreciated that last post of yours. You’re dead on.

[Jay]

Are you serious? We’re “slamming” BJU?

Comparing the BJU student handbook and the NIU policy on dress standards is comparing aircraft and apples. They aren’t the same, and shouldn’t be treated the same.

And read the article. Where does any of this say anything about BJU or dress codes?

What is the point of introducing the subject? What is the tenor of the comments? (Hint: less rules good, more rules bad)

I saw this story and it made me think of this thread…

http://boston.com/lifestyle/fashion/2014/04/10/america-war-yoga-pants/C…

Chip your points illustrate why I love the discipling approach. Instead of being left with a huge rulebook to apply on their own, and only learning when a demerit slip is handed to them, students will be discipled. Yes in the administration’s eye, there is more to dress than one sentence. But how you get there is by coming alongside the naive young college student, and modeling/counseling them on how to dress modestly and appropriately. That will go much farther than creating a system where student chafe against a system of rules that lives and breathes on its own, with committees who judge whether or not violations of the code happened, and how much the demerit / disciplinary action should be.

And this isn’t about NIU vs. BJU. It is NIU’s philosophy over and against a host of schools, my alma mater (Fairhaven Baptist) and PCC among them.

And yes, this is tangential, but all I was saying is I’m encouraged to see the direction Northland is taking as it treads financial water and tries to continue to stay true to its mission.

One thing that no one has dealt with is why this is assumed to be a dichotomous issue. Why can’t you have demerits and discipleship? Why do you assume discipling doesn’t/can’t happen when demerits are being used? I like discipling better in an informal setting, like a family. But in a school setting, where a student may need to be expelled and where parents or students may take umbrage with admin’s decision and sue, it is essential to be able to document what has transpired. If you are documenting the discipling, how is that different than demerits?