Phil Robertson, A&E, and Free Speech

That’s a thought-provoking post Farmer Tom. The phrase I have come to use with adults on whether or not sodomy is “natural” is one a repentant bi-sexual (= degenerate) said to me one time – “you don’t plant the seed of life in excrement.” Gross enough to get the point across, but somehow it positively exalts the natural.

Terrific post farmer Tom N. Couldn’t agree with you more.

I’ve read several comments here on SI and on FB about this subject. Many Christians are not supportive of Mr. Robertson because he was “crass” or over-stated his point. Also many say Christians shouldn’t get involved with this controversy because they feel our true home is in heaven and there are bigger issues to confront, i.e. lack of soul winning, than fussing over a crass, gun shooting, duck hunting hic. By the attitude of some you would think we Christians should just sit around a camp fire together, sing bible camp songs all day long, and be disengaged from everything around us.

I think you can make a Biblical case either way - to get involved or not get involved.

Personally though I think that non-involvement viewpoint misses the mark by quite a bit. The non-involvement position is usually presented as an either/or position. That is something like, either you are a church going, Bible believing, soul winning believer Or you don’t care about those things because you are getting fired up over (in their opinion) a fake controversy. There are other possible positions than that, right?

We are commanded to be salt and light in this world and I believe that involves more than our personal walk with the Lord. Also, as an American I have rights that are worth standing up for. If I can make a stand, however small, and push back against the gay agenda then I believe we should do it. If I can voice that I’m tired of Christians being increasingly marginalized by the hyper-sensitive feelings of a few, then I believe we should voice our thoughts. Your children and my children will have to live, work, and worship in the world, in our America, that we give them. Thousands of Americans, including some I’m sure in your families, have died in battle fighting for those rights.

As the famous saying goes, “The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing.”

Again, excellent post farmer Tom N. Agreed!

I think Robertson was vulgar and borderline racist. If he worked for me and said those things publicly, I would possibly fire him too. If people don’t understand that viewpoint, I doubt they have ever owned a business.

That being said, to each his own. If you want to support him, go for it. Just don’t tell me I have no choice as a Christian but to support him.

Tom’s comments remimd me of the words of brilliant Harvard/Oxford trained lawyer, Roger Magnuson, in 1978. Roger was testifying before the St. Paul (MN) City Council in support of the repeal of a so-called gay rights ordinance that had been “secretly” passed by the Council. I remember Roger was very adroit in pointing out to the packed council chambers that he would refrain from discribing homosexual acts for the sake of decency, unless they wanted him to do so.

In the ensuing weeks the good people of St. Paul — overwhelmingly DFL (the Democratic Party of MN) and Roman Catholic — voted by a 2 to 1 margin to rescind the ordinance that the Council had previously passed. Roger just passed away last month and left a sterling testimony as a noted international attorney and local pastor. Here is the Minneapolis Star Tribune’s obituary. Note the respect (from a very liberal newspaper) for his intellect and position against gay rights. Roger was a gem, and a friend. http://www.startribune.com/local/234516611.html.

In American culture today, what you are, often carries as much or more weight in the court of public opinion, than what you have to say. If you have physical beauty, financial success and/or the correct alphabet soup on your cirruculm vita, then your pronouncements are given a hearing when they normally would be ignored.
I want to focus on those within in the body of Christ who too often sucumb to this deception. Far too frequently we in fundamental circles fall into this trap. If professor/Dr./Pastor so and so said it, then if must be a Biblically correct interpretation/presentation of truth, since he has all the proper credentials. You know that Brother X went to the proper school, was a classmate/contempary of (insert big name here), so we can trust his opinion.
I’m afraid our judgements of those making Biblical arguments in the public realm, get the pass or fail from us, not based on what they actually say(and do) but rather on who they are, who they associate with and what their credentials are.
That’s a problem. Because if flies in the face of how God has worked through human history to advance His plan. He used a simple shepherd boy, David, to unify His people Israel. He used people of no import, like the disciples, a rag tag bunch of tax collectors/fisherman, to spread the gospel through the world. And just a little reminder on this Christmas morning, He sent his Son to live as a lowly carpenter, born in a stable, not formally educated, not born in a palace, even though He was the King of Kings. If memory serves correctly D.L Moody was a shoe salesman at one point in his life?
God in His wisdom uses common people to reveal His Truth and Love to mankind, more often than we care to acknowledge.
Which makes me wonder if maybe, just maybe, some of the negative reaction to Phil Robertson over this whole (as Doug Wilson calls it) L’affaire Robertson, is really just an attitude of distain for a common man who doesn’t have the proper training, vita and stature to meet our preconcieved criteria? After all he’s just a hairy, redneck, duck hunter, duck call maker, who had never had any formal training in theology, can’t put together more than three or four sentences in a row without going off on a rabbit trail, and he probably sold his soul to make money of a “reality” TV show.
How many of you have thought those things, some or all of them? How many of you would look differently at what Phil Robertson had said, if he was a graduate of (insert your favorite Bible college/institution of higher learning here, BJU, Central Seminary, Masters College, Oral Roberts University)? Would you think differently about the content of his statements if he were the pastor of a church with which you are in theological agreement? I wonder if you more readily defend him if he had all the proper alphabet soup behind his name?
Yes, Phil Roberton is probably not the perfect picture of what many in fundamental circles have in mind when they see a messenger of God’s Truth proclaiming in the public sphere. But, if you examine the content of his message, is it Biblical? Is it truthful?
We often decry the current state of breakdown in the American culture. People are adrift on a sea of self-interest, personal pleasure, self indulgence and entertainment. Is it possible that God in his plan, could use a red-neck duck hunter from the swamps of Louisiana to remind the culture of their need for the person and work of Jesus Christ, even if that guy doesn’t meet all the standards of education, position and persona that we so frequently hold up as important?
I left out one other example of a nobody, red-neck that God used to share the message, I’ll let this article remind us of that one. It’s a very well written piece which drives home the point I’m trying to make.
http://stevedeace.com/news/national-politics/a-happy-happy-happy-christmas/

Let us not forget that Thabiti also said what Farmer Tom and I said:

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/thabitianyabwile/2013/08/19/the-importance-of-your-gag-reflex-when-discussing-homosexuality-and-gay-marriage/

It really stirred up the dainties though. Sin really does have a disgusting element to it. Peter spoke of those who returned to their own vomit. Is that disgusting too or should we run that through the societal elements whose pantaloons are on too tight?

Wow!!!

[GregH]

I think Robertson was vulgar and borderline racist. If he worked for me and said those things publicly, I would possibly fire him too. If people don’t understand that viewpoint, I doubt they have ever owned a business.

That being said, to each his own. If you want to support him, go for it. Just don’t tell me I have no choice as a Christian but to support him.

Got to be careful if this is how racism is defined. To quote another famous southerner in specific reference to race relations “Sometimes we have a little trouble, but then we adjust everything sensibly and get back to the established order. But the good white folks have always stood by their good colored friends, and the good colored folks have always stood by their good white friends. No two races ever lived as close together as the white people and the colored people here in the south and got along so well.”

I’d say Bob Jones, Sr. summed up pretty well what Phil Robertson said. “Is Segregation Scriptural?” Bob Jones, Sr. 1960

Not saying either one is or isn’t racist, just saying that you can’t take the worldview of someone who grew up in a small southern community and expect them to consider it anything but “normal.”

Money quote in Wilson’s article: “A&E is defending the tenets of a worldview that wants to posture as though they are champions of diversity while simultaneously cracking down on the first appearance of it on their network.”

[ejohansen]

Got to be careful if this is how racism is defined. To quote another famous southerner in specific reference to race relations “Sometimes we have a little trouble, but then we adjust everything sensibly and get back to the established order. But the good white folks have always stood by their good colored friends, and the good colored folks have always stood by their good white friends. No two races ever lived as close together as the white people and the colored people here in the south and got along so well.”

I’d say Bob Jones, Sr. summed up pretty well what Phil Robertson said. “Is Segregation Scriptural?” Bob Jones, Sr. 1960

Not saying either one is or isn’t racist, just saying that you can’t take the worldview of someone who grew up in a small southern community and expect them to consider it anything but “normal.”

Yes, that quote is about as ignorant as they come but no surprise to anyone who knows much about Bob Jones Sr and Jr. There were people during that era that got it—Billy Graham got it. The Jones people did not.

[GregH] Billy Graham got it. The Jones people did not.

Amen, Brother.

GregH, watch your knees. There are certain things you don’t do. You don’t speak ill of the Jones boys and you sure don’t indicate Billy Graham was right while they were wrong. Good grief man.

Farmer Tom For The Win. Also really appreciated this comment :-)
~
I thought The Atlantic brought up a salient point in this whole “controversy”:

“Missing in the controversy over A&E’s handling of its golden goose—or duck, rather—is the fact that the real conflict here is not between Robertson and A&E; it is between gay activists and a solid majority of Christians who believe homosexual acts are wrong.”
As I’ve stated in an earlier Duck Dynasty topic-I like them and have enjoyed the show when I’ve seen it. I believe they have solid testimonies and are fellow true worshippers, however along with all their fame and stuff they’ve become Christiandom’s shiny-objects-of-the-day. In the worlds stage that they now just happen to occupy they are “entertainment” first and (imo) should not be treated or critiqued as a serious “ministry”. That would be something done “off camera” (a such) - and Phil, having been given that opportunity in the GQ interview passed with, well, flying colors.

This distinction largely being ignored between biblical Christian ministry and ENTERTAINMENT—particularly by people who ought to know better—has been rather unhelpful, if somewhat irritating.

Anyhoo..nothing is new and, ultimately, may we all keep in mind that we’re not warring with flesh and blood.