The Gospel Coalition: Can God Save a Fundamentalist School?

[Brenda T]

Numerous times people have tried here on SI to understand what criteria, standards, etc. others use for their musical choices and have found that this road often leads no where except to the medicine cabinet for an aspirin. So, I’m going to offer a suggestion to those defending CCM.

Take some time to select one song (maybe it’s one you sing in church this morning) that you think qualifies as CCM, provide a link to a video or audio file that best represents how you sing/play that song, then list all the criteria you used to determine the propriety of that song for use in worship to God. And, the criteria cannot address the text only; it must also address the tune.

Now, before someone jumps in and says “the other side needs to do that too” I will also say that my suggestion works both ways. However, I haven’t heard anyone say that hymns are out of bounds, so it doesn’t seem that the “hymns” people need to convince others of their propriety. But, it probably would be helpful if one of the more traditional people would post a link to a hymn and provide the criteria by which they chose that hymn.

Anyone game for this little exercise?

Brenda T,

I love a good exercise!

Here is one we sang this morning during corporate worship. I was running a camera for the tech team so I was able to lift this praise to the LORD 4 separate times—never got old. I was not privy to the discussions among the elders on why the song would be used, but the ultimate aim of our worship is to so experience God that He is glorified in our affections.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=722zPX1npcA

Matthew

Hi Brenda, thanks for the free publicity. :) Obviously this is just one song from one service (our Christmas Eve service as I recall) that was actually posted online as somewhat of a “test,” because we are trying to use video more consistently in our services but are trying to work out the kinks (additionally, the sound wasn’t mixed before the video was posted). As I’ve mentioned, we use a variety of styles and instrumentation in our services; there were other songs in that same service that were more mellow and contemplative, if you will.

Honestly I think it would be somewhat obvious to most people how this song is “joyful”—upbeat, energetic, happy, etc. I think doing this song in a more traditional style can also be considered “joyful”, although I would say as a personal opinion that singing it in a traditional style with a piano and/or organ would not communicate joy to everyone.

but I don’t really know what discussing the specifics of our church’s music ministry necessarily has to do with the primary issues that are currently being discussed. You can see a summary of our church’s music philosophy here: http://www.gracehome.com/content.cfm?id=2085

I will repeat: the primary issue is elevating a conservative approach to music to a level of certainty and emphasis that goes beyond its clarity in Scripture and then separating from others because of that.

Matthew, thanks for your participation. Based on the video you linked (I’m not referring to your church now) I’m guessing some would say it looked more like the song was working the emotions rather than affections. You also mentioned the word “experience” and I think earlier Anne referred to a song “touching” her which also sounds like a reference to emotions and experience. Now, I understand people can and have said those same things about certain gospel songs from the 50s and 60s, so that’s not something peculiar to only one genre of music. But, it is helpful to me in understanding where people are coming from.

Greg, thanks for the link, but written worship/music philosophies aren’t an end-all for me. Our church has one, but honestly sometimes we’ll have a song that will leave me scratching my head and wondering “how in the world did that one square with our policy?”

So, my initial question had to do less with policy and more with implementation of policies — hence the request for examples.

“We (as others have pointed out) have music philosophies, standards, guidelines, etc, that we believe are based on biblical principles. We don’t have an “anything goes” approach to music in the church.”

“I will repeat: the primary issue is elevating a conservative approach to music to a level of certainty and emphasis that goes beyond its clarity in Scripture and then separating from others because of that.”

-Greg Long

Greg, I don’t think that you have an “anything goes” philosophy to church music at all. You and your ministry obviously draw the line somewhere as to appropriateness and style. As you said in the first quoted line, you believe that they are based on Biblical principles. Since you do not have an “anything goes” philosophy with music, what Biblical principles do you use to determine whether or not music is appropriate or acceptable in style? Where do you think the clarity of Scripture is sufficient to draw the line?

And when you think Scripture is clear enough and the brother that is asking to sing that song in your church doesn’t, do you allow it or do you draw the line? If there is a group asking to use your facilities for a concert but your ministry believes that their music crosses a line of worship that isn’t compatible with your ministry’s music philosophy, do you separate from them or allow them to use your facilities?

DJ

Greg, MBBC changed their “approved church list” to a “partnering church list” this last year. Students are required to go to a partnering church. My church happens to be in Watertown, WI. Over half of our church graduated from MBBC in the past (and we are lead by a MBBC grad). We are NOT a partnering church. Students and faculty are forbidden to attend our church. There are at least a half-dozen conservative, Baptistic, historically fundamental churches within 30 minutes of MBBC that are not partnering churches. So the answer is…”no.” :)

I know of one church that is prohibited because it doesn’t have “Baptist” in its name. We are prohibited due to our contemporary worship (we have 2 acoustic guitars and a Djembe). We sing Charles Wesley along with Getty songs. A plurality of elders is also a disqualifier for some churches.

[TylerR]

I don’t know about BJU, but speaking as a Maranatha grad and current MDiv student, their total attendance is at record levels and growing. They had 1,200 enrolled this past school year, in Bible College and Seminary.

They are charting an accurate course in fundamentalism and are doing it very well. Things are alive and well there. The constant lament that “all fundamentalist schools are dying” is not quite so simple …

Tyler, the actual number of on-campus students is approximately 450. The 1200 number includes, part time students, non-returning students, seminary students, and high-school online students. The number is not incorrect, but definitely misleading. I have several good friends on staff at Maranatha that were told to give the higher number so that people wouldn’t be concerned. Maranatha is operating at a budget shortfall that rivals Northlands… but Maranatha doesn’t have as much of an endowment to offset the deficit.

MBBC might be in better shape than Northland…but not by much.

I do disagree with the approved churches issue, but I have a different view of college than most folks here!

As for budget shortfalls, etc - who knows? I think MBBC is being very innovative by expanding their distance learning. Official statistics list the school as having just over 1000, with 927 undergrad.

I tried to pull the Form 990 from MBBC, but the only ones I could find were from 2011 or older.

I’ve heard that MBBC was down in enrollment this year too. But then I’ve also read they are growing, especially their on-line program.

Not sure what is true.

I don’t agree with NIU’s music or the casual dress style they appear to bring to worship. However, they are a very conservative Bible College in a world which is sorely lacking in Biblical education. I don’t wish their demise. I hope NIU can turn it around. Their new President will have his hands full. I wish him the best, whoever he will be.

Tyler, the enrollment stats are 1 1/2 years old. I believe that the numbers include students who committed, but then did not attend. Fall 2012 experienced the highest number of “drop-outs” of any year. I believe that the number was 64…but don’t quote me on that. Those 927 also include part time students. Enrollment has slowly dropped each semester over the past 4 years. They’re having to do some fuzzy math to get to those numbers :)

[mmartin]

I’ve heard that MBBC was down in enrollment this year too. But then I’ve also read they are growing, especially their on-line program.

Not sure what is true.

Both.

Enrollment as a whole as dropped steadily. The online program has grown consistently and has tried to balance out the drop in on-campus students. However, online students pay a fraction of the on-campus costs. The growth of the online program has leeched some of the students that might have been on-campus.

Maranatha is a good school, but they are not much better off than Northland in the financial department.

I like the school. I think it’s doing well. You disagree. Who knows? Not really a concern of mine right now.

I spoke at MBBC this year (February) for four consecutive days in chapel. There were about 800 students or more present each day that I spoke. The spirit of the young people was excellent and the singing robust.

Todd,

Yes, I can see MBBC using fuzzy math when publishing their enrollment. It is a PR thing. NIU does it, BJU does it. There are a few different ways the number could be calculated and would technically be correct.

The issue with MBBC if they have declining enrollment has to do with their building program debt.

It may/may not be true with MBBC about their financial situation compared to NIU, but they are in a much better position to remain viable. They have a diverse program, they are regionally accredited, and they do not have a major PR fiasco on their hands.