Bible Colleges a Relic of the Past?

I’m sure the time lag to turn a profit is even greater for physical infrastructure, Greg.

[TylerR]

I’m sure the time lag to turn a profit is even greater for physical infrastructure, Greg.

[Greg Long]

I have been told by someone “in the know” that it takes 3-5 years minimum for a college to recoup the upfront costs for adding online learning before there’s even the possibility of it becoming profitable.

If you’re talking about setting up an online infrastructure from scratch - yes, that’s probably right. For a school with a fairly robust network and infrastructure (1000 students or better), the costs might not be as heavy. It’s definitely not for the faint of heart. :)

[TylerR]

When I went to Covenant Theological Seminary for my M.Div., anyone entering the program was not guaranteed to get the degree even if he satisfactorily completed all the course work. Since this was considered a pastoral degree, the faculty had to meet and agree that the man was truly qualified for pastoral ministry or he would not be awarded the degree

The Seminary is taking on the functions of the local church here. This is way out of bounds. To be brutally honest, we pay Seminaries to provide us with a product. If the man completed his coursework, he gets the degree.

I understand your perspective here, Tyler, and would agree with it, as a fellow Baptist. But from their perspective, as the CTS website says, the school is “The national seminary of the Presbyterian Church in America.” In their way of thinking, that decision is reflective of a decision of the church.

Agreed. I speak as a Baptist. I admit it! He asked for my opinion.

Yes, given that CTS is a PCA school, they operate in accordance with a somewhat different ecclesiological perspective. In their view, the professors are not simply professors, for example, since they all were required to have been ordained teaching elders in the local churches before they could be professors in the seminary in the first place. Thus, in accordance with their polity, the assessment of pastoral qualifications was being made by a group of qualified and ordained elders who were given this role by the collective will of the churches who had established the seminary to aid them both in training for, and helping to assess the qualifications for, pastoral ministry.

As a Baptist student, however, I still had to accept this situation if I wanted to get my M.Div. degree there. So I went through their ordination track just like their Presbyterian students did and, thankfully, was able to graduate with the degree. This was an encouragement to me, but, as I indicated in an earlier post, my confidence in my calling came primarily from the local Baptist churches I attended and from the elders in those churches.

As for my own view, I think that seminary professors ought all to have already had pastoral experience in the churches and that their collective voice ought to matter to some extent, but in conjunction with and submission to — not instead of or in usurpation of — the local church/churches who is/are familiar with the candidate for pastoral ministry. After all, they are also a part of the body of Christ who have participated in the training and spiritual formation of the man seeking pastoral ministry, so I think it a wise thing to at least consider their perspective.

At any rate, I too am a convinced Baptist and would never advocate substituting the voice of the seminary for that of the local church, even if I think we should take time to consider more carefully just what their role ought or ought not to be.

Keith

[Pastork] At any rate, I too am a convinced Baptist and would never advocate substituting the voice of the seminary for that of the local church, even if I think we should take time to consider more carefully just what their role ought or ought not to be.

Yeah, I agree with you here. The more I think about it, the less the current model of sending 18 year olds to Bible College and then pronouncing them fit to be pastors because of that is (to be charitable) an unwise practice that seems to contradict II Tim. 3’s requirements.

I am curious, though - why did you pick that school? Money? Most flexible? Just wanted a different view on some things? Wanted to fight with Covenant Theologians all day? :)

Jay, as an earlier post made clear, I could not agree more with the need to stop placing novices into pastoral ministry.

As for why I picked CTS, it was primarily because I had become very conservative theologically, and I had become more a more convinced of a Calvinistic and Covenantal perspective during my Bible college days (although most of my professors there were not of this mindset), so I wanted to go to a seminary that was both conservative and Reformed. But there were no good Baptist schools to go to at the time. SBTS, for example, had not yet cleaned house and was still pretty liberal at the time (although now that have gotten back to their Calvinistic roots).

Also, although I went to CTS as a self-identified Reformed Baptist, and although I attended a Baptist church for the entire time I went there, I was initially more open to their view on paedobaptism when I first arrived. But that changed pretty quickly. All I had to do was really hear and fully understand their paedobaptist take on Covenant Theology in order to see how wrong it was. In fact, within my first year at CTS, I had become increasingly convinced of a credobaptist position. I thus entered CTS a Reformed Baptist but left there a thoroughly Reformed Baptist.

I hope that answers your question.

Keith

P.S. As for the cost, it was significantly more than if I had attended a Baptist seminary because they gave almost all the financial assistance to the Presbyterian students.